| Vegans 19:32 - Oct 31 with 17038 views | DiceMan |
I don't understand why it is acceptable for people to criticize, attack and take the p1ss out of vegans on this forum?
People turn to a vegan lifestyle because they don't believe animals should be exploited , they are compassionate, they care about the environment and for health reasons.
Being anti-vegan is the same as being racist, sexist, homophobic or antisemitic as far as I'm concerned
Vegans are such an easy target and it's always the same old jokes.
Murdering animals is absolutely hilarious isn't it |  |
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| Vegans on 15:21 - Nov 1 with 1112 views | wkj |
| Vegans on 15:19 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
If you actually understood animals you'd understand why this whole "pet" argument is completely specious.
Speaking as someone who's bred, reared & looked after to highest welfare conditions, their own bantams & turkeys in 100% organic free range (miles to roam) conditions, then killed & eaten them. They didn't know anything about being killed. One minute they were having their necks gently stroked, then they didn't know anything about no longer being alive. Plus also reared lambs & pigs in same conditions.
And who has a **pet** dog, who (unlike the bantams, turkeys, lambs and pigs) lives in the house, has a name, is trained, gets taken for walks, in the car on shopping trips, and on holiday etc.
Oh, and I did have an emotional attachment to most of the farm animals, despite their being bred for meat/eggs - just not the same kind that you have for a **pet** - who you hope to have for the entire duration of their lives (or many years if adopted from a rescue centre). [Post edited 1 Nov 2018 15:22]
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I am never going to accept a hug from you now Ryorry... arms length handshake at most. |  |
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| Vegans on 15:23 - Nov 1 with 1107 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:19 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
If you actually understood animals you'd understand why this whole "pet" argument is completely specious.
Speaking as someone who's bred, reared & looked after to highest welfare conditions, their own bantams & turkeys in 100% organic free range (miles to roam) conditions, then killed & eaten them. They didn't know anything about being killed. One minute they were having their necks gently stroked, then they didn't know anything about no longer being alive. Plus also reared lambs & pigs in same conditions.
And who has a **pet** dog, who (unlike the bantams, turkeys, lambs and pigs) lives in the house, has a name, is trained, gets taken for walks, in the car on shopping trips, and on holiday etc.
Oh, and I did have an emotional attachment to most of the farm animals, despite their being bred for meat/eggs - just not the same kind that you have for a **pet** - who you hope to have for the entire duration of their lives (or many years if adopted from a rescue centre). [Post edited 1 Nov 2018 15:22]
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If I did to a pet dog what we do to cows and turkeys I’d make the front page of the Daily Mail as public enemy #1 and in prison.
There’s some real conitive dissonance going on. |  |
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| Vegans on 15:25 - Nov 1 with 1102 views | wkj |
| Vegans on 15:23 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
If I did to a pet dog what we do to cows and turkeys I’d make the front page of the Daily Mail as public enemy #1 and in prison.
There’s some real conitive dissonance going on. |
For such an animal lover you claim to be, i find your ill intentions towards dogs quite disturbing, as some friendly advice- stay away from crufts. | |
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| Vegans on 15:27 - Nov 1 with 1093 views | Ryorry |
| Vegans on 15:23 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
If I did to a pet dog what we do to cows and turkeys I’d make the front page of the Daily Mail as public enemy #1 and in prison.
There’s some real conitive dissonance going on. |
There certainly is cognitive dissonance going on when you continue to ignore what - more than a couple of dozen? - posts over the years from myself and J2 re the difference between factory-farmed meat (which we all obviously abhor) and the kind of wild or free range meat that is the only kind we will eat. And that I personally only eat meat a couple of times, occasionally 3 times, a week. |  |
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| Vegans on 15:27 - Nov 1 with 1088 views | Ryorry |
| Vegans on 15:21 - Nov 1 by wkj |
I am never going to accept a hug from you now Ryorry... arms length handshake at most. |
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| Vegans on 15:29 - Nov 1 with 1078 views | wkj |
| Vegans on 15:27 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
There certainly is cognitive dissonance going on when you continue to ignore what - more than a couple of dozen? - posts over the years from myself and J2 re the difference between factory-farmed meat (which we all obviously abhor) and the kind of wild or free range meat that is the only kind we will eat. And that I personally only eat meat a couple of times, occasionally 3 times, a week. |
To be fair, even if you ate factory processed meat, and 7 days a week- you shouldn't have to justify your decision to care for a pet to anyone for the sake of a poorly thought up analogy | |
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| Vegans on 15:30 - Nov 1 with 1075 views | J2BLUE |
| Vegans on 15:23 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
If I did to a pet dog what we do to cows and turkeys I’d make the front page of the Daily Mail as public enemy #1 and in prison.
There’s some real conitive dissonance going on. |
If you did the same to someone's pet cow you'd be on the front of the Daily Mail. |  |
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| Vegans on 15:30 - Nov 1 with 1073 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:27 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
There certainly is cognitive dissonance going on when you continue to ignore what - more than a couple of dozen? - posts over the years from myself and J2 re the difference between factory-farmed meat (which we all obviously abhor) and the kind of wild or free range meat that is the only kind we will eat. And that I personally only eat meat a couple of times, occasionally 3 times, a week. |
I just don’t get this continual need to demand folk like me and eireblue to validate your choices. It’s fairly dull and we end up at the same conclusion every time (which is usually falling out).
I recently got told I’m a “fake vegan” on a vegan forum because I said you’d be better giving an item you purchased that accdiently contained animal products to a can drive or a food bank than throwing it away. Am I bothered? Nope. | |
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| Vegans on 15:32 - Nov 1 with 1064 views | J2BLUE |
| Vegans on 15:27 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
There certainly is cognitive dissonance going on when you continue to ignore what - more than a couple of dozen? - posts over the years from myself and J2 re the difference between factory-farmed meat (which we all obviously abhor) and the kind of wild or free range meat that is the only kind we will eat. And that I personally only eat meat a couple of times, occasionally 3 times, a week. |
I have about 17kg of meat in my fridge right now. Would have been 18kg if Musclefood hadn't shortchanged me 1KG of chicken. | |
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| Vegans on 15:33 - Nov 1 with 1063 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:30 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
If you did the same to someone's pet cow you'd be on the front of the Daily Mail. |
People do it to their pet cows in the billions each year. It’s called the farming industry. In China they do it with dogs. It’s all defined cultural norms and emotional attachments. It’s all the same death and flesh of once conscious beings being killed against their will for the sake of taste. | |
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| Vegans on 15:34 - Nov 1 with 1058 views | wkj |
| Vegans on 15:30 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
I just don’t get this continual need to demand folk like me and eireblue to validate your choices. It’s fairly dull and we end up at the same conclusion every time (which is usually falling out).
I recently got told I’m a “fake vegan” on a vegan forum because I said you’d be better giving an item you purchased that accdiently contained animal products to a can drive or a food bank than throwing it away. Am I bothered? Nope. |
Well, I don't think i have ever asked anyone to validate their dietary and moral choices, sure, I have chimed in with a counter argument to convey my personal opinion, but I don't think anything less of someone who is a vegan.
However, I do feel less of anyone, sans a physician, who tells me I should do something, or shouldn't do something as long as my actions are within the constraints of the law.
It goes both ways | |
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| Vegans on 15:37 - Nov 1 with 1049 views | Ryorry |
| Vegans on 15:30 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
I just don’t get this continual need to demand folk like me and eireblue to validate your choices. It’s fairly dull and we end up at the same conclusion every time (which is usually falling out).
I recently got told I’m a “fake vegan” on a vegan forum because I said you’d be better giving an item you purchased that accdiently contained animal products to a can drive or a food bank than throwing it away. Am I bothered? Nope. |
I don't demand it in any way shape or form - I simply politely respond to your unjustifiable personal attacks on people who eat meat, explaining what, how and why I do.
Obv. wasting my time as you make it clear that you have closed ears, eyes and mind on any other facts or p.o.vs than your own extremely narrow evangelistic one. [Post edited 1 Nov 2018 15:39]
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| Vegans on 15:37 - Nov 1 with 1046 views | J2BLUE |
| Vegans on 15:33 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
People do it to their pet cows in the billions each year. It’s called the farming industry. In China they do it with dogs. It’s all defined cultural norms and emotional attachments. It’s all the same death and flesh of once conscious beings being killed against their will for the sake of taste. |
China is a much better argument than someone's pet. I repeat though that if China had a nice free range dog farm where the dogs lived a good life until they were slaughtered I wouldn't have an issue with it. | |
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| Vegans on 15:38 - Nov 1 with 1042 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:29 - Nov 1 by wkj |
To be fair, even if you ate factory processed meat, and 7 days a week- you shouldn't have to justify your decision to care for a pet to anyone for the sake of a poorly thought up analogy |
That’s not the point I’m making at all though. I don’t deny people care for their pet, what I am asking is if people believe an animal that isn’t seen as a pet is less deserving of compassion or lacks the same fears/feelings of an animal that is.
When you start asking yourself these questions and answering yourself honestly is when the lightbulb goes off. That or you’ll conclude you DGAF and carry on as before. In all honesty it’s easier to talk to the latter as as least they accept it. It’s the logical backflips of those who challenge it I struggle with because I’m not here to make people feel better. | |
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| Vegans on 15:39 - Nov 1 with 1033 views | wkj |
| Vegans on 15:38 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
That’s not the point I’m making at all though. I don’t deny people care for their pet, what I am asking is if people believe an animal that isn’t seen as a pet is less deserving of compassion or lacks the same fears/feelings of an animal that is.
When you start asking yourself these questions and answering yourself honestly is when the lightbulb goes off. That or you’ll conclude you DGAF and carry on as before. In all honesty it’s easier to talk to the latter as as least they accept it. It’s the logical backflips of those who challenge it I struggle with because I’m not here to make people feel better. |
I just don’t get this continual need to demand folk like me and ryorry to validate your choices. It’s fairly dull and we end up at the same conclusion every time (which is usually falling out). | |
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| Vegans on 15:41 - Nov 1 with 1032 views | J2BLUE |
| Vegans on 15:34 - Nov 1 by wkj |
Well, I don't think i have ever asked anyone to validate their dietary and moral choices, sure, I have chimed in with a counter argument to convey my personal opinion, but I don't think anything less of someone who is a vegan.
However, I do feel less of anyone, sans a physician, who tells me I should do something, or shouldn't do something as long as my actions are within the constraints of the law.
It goes both ways |
No one has asked for Callis' approval. He is confusing seeking his approval with providing context about our meat consumption. Callis is against killing animals for food. Us going on about free range and high welfare meat isn't going to change his mind and we're not trying to.
Callis thinks humans should use their intelligence to recognise that (in theory) we don't NEED (Ryorry etc excluded) to eat meat and therefore we should choose not to. I respect that. I think humans should use their intelligence to recognise that we probably do better getting much higher quality sources of key nutrients from animal foods and should use our intelligence to minimise animal suffering while still making the choice to eat animals. In the wild animals eating animals is brutal. No other animal on the planet gives any consideration to the animal being eaten. | |
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| Vegans on 15:42 - Nov 1 with 1030 views | Whymarkmariner |
Yes your right, what people decide to do with their lives is up to them as long as they don't try to enforce that lifestyle on other people. Unfortunately some pleasures which people partake in such as drugs or alcohol abuse directly effects others. I should know as I have a Daughter who took drugs when she was young and believe me it effects the rest of her life and mine and others. With regard to animals killed for food I have two points. Firstly they are killed humanly and secondly if no one ate meat then they wouldn't be in existence. |  | | |
| Vegans on 15:44 - Nov 1 with 1029 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:34 - Nov 1 by wkj |
Well, I don't think i have ever asked anyone to validate their dietary and moral choices, sure, I have chimed in with a counter argument to convey my personal opinion, but I don't think anything less of someone who is a vegan.
However, I do feel less of anyone, sans a physician, who tells me I should do something, or shouldn't do something as long as my actions are within the constraints of the law.
It goes both ways |
I’m not telling you to do anything, nor forcing you. I’m simply explaining my opinion in a way that may trigger a change if someone took such a challenge on board openly.
It’s totally legal to buy an iPhone, if someone wants to challenge me on why I’m happy to exploit cheap foreign labour for the sake of convenient technology that produces more waste they are more than entitled to. I don’t want to live in an echo chamber. In fact people have challenged me on this and shown me more ethical smart phone choices to consider when I upgrade.
There’s no harmin trying to better yourself and others in any area of life. | |
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| Vegans on 15:44 - Nov 1 with 1029 views | J2BLUE |
| Vegans on 15:38 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
That’s not the point I’m making at all though. I don’t deny people care for their pet, what I am asking is if people believe an animal that isn’t seen as a pet is less deserving of compassion or lacks the same fears/feelings of an animal that is.
When you start asking yourself these questions and answering yourself honestly is when the lightbulb goes off. That or you’ll conclude you DGAF and carry on as before. In all honesty it’s easier to talk to the latter as as least they accept it. It’s the logical backflips of those who challenge it I struggle with because I’m not here to make people feel better. |
I don't think anyone is arguing with the fact that two of the same animals will have the same emotions. That's your spin to continue using your 'perception' argument which gets knocked down with each thread and then you come back repeating it next time. | |
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| Vegans on 15:45 - Nov 1 with 1023 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:37 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
I don't demand it in any way shape or form - I simply politely respond to your unjustifiable personal attacks on people who eat meat, explaining what, how and why I do.
Obv. wasting my time as you make it clear that you have closed ears, eyes and mind on any other facts or p.o.vs than your own extremely narrow evangelistic one. [Post edited 1 Nov 2018 15:39]
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If that’s how you feel then fine. As I said I’m bored of doing this though. I could spend my time talking about this stuff much more productively elsewhere | |
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| Vegans on 15:47 - Nov 1 with 1013 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:39 - Nov 1 by wkj |
I just don’t get this continual need to demand folk like me and ryorry to validate your choices. It’s fairly dull and we end up at the same conclusion every time (which is usually falling out). |
I don’t need my choices to be validated, I’m perfectly okay with them and don’t feel the need to defend them - but simply promote them when asked or relevant, such as vegan threads on TWTD. | |
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| Vegans on 15:47 - Nov 1 with 1012 views | Ryorry |
| Vegans on 15:38 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
That’s not the point I’m making at all though. I don’t deny people care for their pet, what I am asking is if people believe an animal that isn’t seen as a pet is less deserving of compassion or lacks the same fears/feelings of an animal that is.
When you start asking yourself these questions and answering yourself honestly is when the lightbulb goes off. That or you’ll conclude you DGAF and carry on as before. In all honesty it’s easier to talk to the latter as as least they accept it. It’s the logical backflips of those who challenge it I struggle with because I’m not here to make people feel better. |
I rest my case re my previous post when you say
"people believe an animal that isn’t seen as a pet is less deserving of compassion or lacks the same fears/feelings of an animal that is".
NO, quite the opposite. I had already said that I give them the same compassion - probably even more, since I obv don't kill my dogs - and understanding of their fears/feelings, in the way that I treated my farm animals.
You really have just proved that your ears eyes and mind are pre-closed. | |
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| Vegans on 15:48 - Nov 1 with 1010 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:41 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
No one has asked for Callis' approval. He is confusing seeking his approval with providing context about our meat consumption. Callis is against killing animals for food. Us going on about free range and high welfare meat isn't going to change his mind and we're not trying to.
Callis thinks humans should use their intelligence to recognise that (in theory) we don't NEED (Ryorry etc excluded) to eat meat and therefore we should choose not to. I respect that. I think humans should use their intelligence to recognise that we probably do better getting much higher quality sources of key nutrients from animal foods and should use our intelligence to minimise animal suffering while still making the choice to eat animals. In the wild animals eating animals is brutal. No other animal on the planet gives any consideration to the animal being eaten. |
Nailed it. | |
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| Vegans on 15:50 - Nov 1 with 1004 views | monytowbray |
| Vegans on 15:47 - Nov 1 by Ryorry |
I rest my case re my previous post when you say
"people believe an animal that isn’t seen as a pet is less deserving of compassion or lacks the same fears/feelings of an animal that is".
NO, quite the opposite. I had already said that I give them the same compassion - probably even more, since I obv don't kill my dogs - and understanding of their fears/feelings, in the way that I treated my farm animals.
You really have just proved that your ears eyes and mind are pre-closed. |
Killing something that isn’t ready or willing to die isn’t compassionate.
That’s it to a tee for me. I’m done. | |
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| Vegans on 15:50 - Nov 1 with 1000 views | J2BLUE |
| Vegans on 15:45 - Nov 1 by monytowbray |
If that’s how you feel then fine. As I said I’m bored of doing this though. I could spend my time talking about this stuff much more productively elsewhere |
Genuine question...would the more productive place be an echo chamber vegan forum where no one questions your stance and everyone gets a pat on the back for bat sh1t analogies which make no sense?
I don't ask that to take the piss. I used to be on the Atkins diet and be exactly the same as you. I hung around low carb forums and became the evangelical low carber who swallowed every word of the Atkins book and other low carb stuff. At one time I was genuinely afraid of carbs thinking they would spike insulin and i'd gain weight. I went 6+ months on <20g carbs per day and it took me YEARS to overcome the fear of carbs and realise it really is just calories that count. I'm not suggesting you will abandon veganism or saying that you're wrong but one day your stance might soften. If you're interested in a bit of balance google former vegan interview. There's loads of them. Even if it's just to arm yourself with the knowledge of what problems can come up. Again I want to point out i'm not wishing you to fail as your choices are irrelevant to me. | |
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