| The irony of MM 19:44 - Jan 7 with 5394 views | WestSussexBlue |
The very open and honest communication from PL is so refreshing and his willingness to involve everyone from former players, fans and the fearless approach now with ME is just what our club has needed for a number of years.
This made me realise, for all the positive traits of MM he has left as much of a mess through being potentially a Yes man to Evans.
How many transfer windows was he happy to work with what he had?
How often was it a case of “ We won’t be held to ransom”
PL is showing he’s not taking this lying down and do you know what if he’s backed financially he could Well keep us up. |  | | |  |
| The irony of M on 21:34 - Jan 7 with 1013 views | GluedtoBlue |
| The irony of M on 21:21 - Jan 7 by itfcjoe |
Lambert "thought" it was madness
Mick "actually dealt" with that issue every season and generally succeeded.
The madness was the profile of the recruitment, and how many were due to head into season being starters - that is where the 8-9 players was wrong. |
It's this isn't it.
I wouldn't say any of the players signed aren't capable of playing at this level but trying to blend a mix of youth and lower league players into a team at the same time with only one or two experienced heads was never going to work.
Eg...Would Jackson look more effective with Waghorn, Garner and Mcgoldrick around him. Quite possibly. Instead he's working with other inexperienced players.
That's without trying to 'gel' all those players together with some good old fashioned spirit. | |
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| The irony of M on 21:38 - Jan 7 with 1014 views | Superfrans |
| The irony of M on 21:21 - Jan 7 by itfcjoe |
Lambert "thought" it was madness
Mick "actually dealt" with that issue every season and generally succeeded.
The madness was the profile of the recruitment, and how many were due to head into season being starters - that is where the 8-9 players was wrong. |
I have to disagree. This is who we had on June 1.
I accept that PH didn’t help himself (or us) by deciding to ignore the recruitment recommendations from Bowman, but whichever way you look at it this is a wafer thin squad - 2 keepers, 9 fit outfield players with any level of experience, 6 first team “kids”.
Even Mick would have been looking to bring in 8-9 players. That’s just too much, season after season after season. For a start, it doesn’t allow for the unforseen - the right players not being available, existing players wanting to leave, having to sell to raise funds... etc.
Gerken
Bart
Knudsen
Spence
Chambers
Webster
Skuse
Ward
Waghorn
Garner
Sears
Kenlock
Emmanuel
Woolfenden
Downes
Nydam
Morris
INJURED/RETURNING:
Dozzell
Bishop
Huws
Rowe
Adeyemi |  |
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| The irony of M on 21:39 - Jan 7 with 1004 views | WestSussexBlue |
| The irony of M on 21:21 - Jan 7 by itfcjoe |
Lambert "thought" it was madness
Mick "actually dealt" with that issue every season and generally succeeded.
The madness was the profile of the recruitment, and how many were due to head into season being starters - that is where the 8-9 players was wrong. |
Mick dealt with it to an extent but there was only ever going to be a limit and limit was boring but safe in mid table, PL isn’t content to just settle for that and is laying his cards firmly on Evans desk, if he wants a successful club, PL is at least showing him the way forward.
This certainly is make or break for ME and ITFC. | | | |
| The irony of M on 21:52 - Jan 7 with 996 views | GluedtoBlue |
| The irony of M on 21:39 - Jan 7 by WestSussexBlue |
Mick dealt with it to an extent but there was only ever going to be a limit and limit was boring but safe in mid table, PL isn’t content to just settle for that and is laying his cards firmly on Evans desk, if he wants a successful club, PL is at least showing him the way forward.
This certainly is make or break for ME and ITFC. |
Was that the limit though? Any mid table side at this stage of the season would be saying 'a good loan (or for us a lower league gem e.g. mings Cresswell) , a rub of the green and a bit of form and we can reach POs'.
That's anyone's game.
That said, I do acknowledge it was time MM went BUT people making out he ruined us is utter tripe.
I do wonder what difference a fit Huws/Bishop/Adeyami might have made last season though. We'll never know. | |
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| The irony of M on 22:06 - Jan 7 with 985 views | Superfrans |
| The irony of M on 21:52 - Jan 7 by GluedtoBlue |
Was that the limit though? Any mid table side at this stage of the season would be saying 'a good loan (or for us a lower league gem e.g. mings Cresswell) , a rub of the green and a bit of form and we can reach POs'.
That's anyone's game.
That said, I do acknowledge it was time MM went BUT people making out he ruined us is utter tripe.
I do wonder what difference a fit Huws/Bishop/Adeyami might have made last season though. We'll never know. |
To be clear, I’m not saying “he ruined us”. I do think he left us in a bit of a mess though.
On what he found when he came in, Hurst said as much, Lambert has been even more forthright. I suspect that even Mick (if he turned up at a club and found what was left in June) would say much the same.
Mick isn’t solely responsible for all our current woes. Evans and Hurst both bear some responsibility, but Mick does too. | |
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| The irony of M on 22:10 - Jan 7 with 976 views | itfcjoe |
| The irony of M on 21:38 - Jan 7 by Superfrans |
I have to disagree. This is who we had on June 1.
I accept that PH didn’t help himself (or us) by deciding to ignore the recruitment recommendations from Bowman, but whichever way you look at it this is a wafer thin squad - 2 keepers, 9 fit outfield players with any level of experience, 6 first team “kids”.
Even Mick would have been looking to bring in 8-9 players. That’s just too much, season after season after season. For a start, it doesn’t allow for the unforseen - the right players not being available, existing players wanting to leave, having to sell to raise funds... etc.
Gerken
Bart
Knudsen
Spence
Chambers
Webster
Skuse
Ward
Waghorn
Garner
Sears
Kenlock
Emmanuel
Woolfenden
Downes
Nydam
Morris
INJURED/RETURNING:
Dozzell
Bishop
Huws
Rowe
Adeyemi |
In summer 2017 we brought in Waghorn, Garner, Huws and Adeyemi, as well as Iorfa, Connolly and Celina on loan - that didn't feel like a major overhaul
In 2016 it Was Webster, Ward, Best, and Grant, Lawrence and Williams
2015 saw Pitman, Douglas, Knudsen, Coke, Oar, Maitland-Niles and Fraser
None of these were major overhauls, all were managed sensibly by McCarthy so I just don't see any reason why he wouldn't have done so again. His targets were lined up, I'm aware of a few and he'd left a squad in good shape.
There was a very good core and spine to the team, and bar McGoldrick most players out the door were squad fillers. The new manager had had wages freed up to add to the squad. Hurst tried to do 3 windows work in 1 by adding 12 players and losing 3 key ones. You simply cannot allow 3 key players to leave, and you especially can't push one out the door. |  |
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| The irony of M on 22:21 - Jan 7 with 961 views | GluedtoBlue |
| The irony of M on 22:06 - Jan 7 by Superfrans |
To be clear, I’m not saying “he ruined us”. I do think he left us in a bit of a mess though.
On what he found when he came in, Hurst said as much, Lambert has been even more forthright. I suspect that even Mick (if he turned up at a club and found what was left in June) would say much the same.
Mick isn’t solely responsible for all our current woes. Evans and Hurst both bear some responsibility, but Mick does too. |
I do understand what your stance is looking at numbers alone. My opinion is that the players left behind is, if nothing more, at least an adequate core for a championship side.
Could MM have pulled in another Waghorn type bargain? It would have made a big difference if he could. PL is talking an awful lot about what's wrong at the club, my guess is that he'dhave felt a lot better with the squad MM left. | |
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| The irony of MM on 22:34 - Jan 7 with 957 views | Coastalblue |
I always got a slight sense with Mick that he did what was best for Mick first and what was best for ITFC second, generally that's fine because most of the time the two align.
I don't get that with PL, and maybe it's just PR, it does feel more like he wants to develop a club rather than a first 15 or 16. |  |
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| The irony of M on 22:52 - Jan 7 with 941 views | Superfrans |
| The irony of M on 22:10 - Jan 7 by itfcjoe |
In summer 2017 we brought in Waghorn, Garner, Huws and Adeyemi, as well as Iorfa, Connolly and Celina on loan - that didn't feel like a major overhaul
In 2016 it Was Webster, Ward, Best, and Grant, Lawrence and Williams
2015 saw Pitman, Douglas, Knudsen, Coke, Oar, Maitland-Niles and Fraser
None of these were major overhauls, all were managed sensibly by McCarthy so I just don't see any reason why he wouldn't have done so again. His targets were lined up, I'm aware of a few and he'd left a squad in good shape.
There was a very good core and spine to the team, and bar McGoldrick most players out the door were squad fillers. The new manager had had wages freed up to add to the squad. Hurst tried to do 3 windows work in 1 by adding 12 players and losing 3 key ones. You simply cannot allow 3 key players to leave, and you especially can't push one out the door. |
I take your point.
But, for one thing, the spine you are talking about was (and has) got older and older. Chambers is now 33, Skuse turns 33 in March. We are no closer to replacing them now than we were 5 years ago.
We have relied in the last three years on an outstanding goalkeeper and an outstanding creative loanee (Celina, Lawrence, Fraser and Williams) to provide some creative threat.
Our only other creative player was allowed to let his contract run down. Even Chambers last season said we shouldn’t let him leave, let alone for nothing.
FWIW, I’m sure we all got used to the way life under Mick, the waves of incoming players, their minimal medium term impact (how many players contributed to the club for more than a season or two?) which led to a constant requirement for more new players... that doesn’t make it a good or workable medium term strategy. It makes it a strategy which we (Mick) was just about able to manage on a season by season basis. But it doesn’t make for a healthy club long term.
Again, I’m not saying that Mick is alone responsible for all of our current ills. There are clearly mitigating factors and others who contributed to where we are now.
But the wealth of evidence is of a manager (a very well paid one, at that) who oversaw a strategy of gradual decline over five years, who didn’t do anywhere near enough to halt it (or make clear to Evans the long term repercussions) and who had lost interest in the long term interests of the club by the second half of last season, probably before that, and didn’t really care what he left behind.
He pretty much said as much in his final couple of months at the club, didn’t he? - that he’d done his bit, that he wouldn’t be responsible after he had gone. | |
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| The irony of MM on 08:51 - Jan 8 with 849 views | Garv |
| The irony of MM on 20:43 - Jan 7 by Superfrans |
The only factor with Hurst was that (for all the obvious reasons) he joined us so late. He didn’t really get started until the second half of June - he got through the PO final, finished his holiday, went on an LMA course and then decided that he wasn’t interested in any of the transfer options Bowman had out together.
Clearly, it was not a very well thought through, or implemented, transition. |
This is why I still stand by my opinion that letting MM to stay on, or at least not try and force him out the door earlier, was stupid, especially as he didn't want to be there. It would have made so much sense to let a new manager come in and evaluate his squad and give him time to work out what he wanted to do with it. Klug's few games in charge were refreshing, but it was wasted time.
It feels more and more like Evans didn't really put a plan in place for when Mick left the club, until he actually left.
Also, what's this about Bowman giving Hurst a list of targets and them being ignored, where has this story come from? |  |
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| The irony of M on 09:03 - Jan 8 with 839 views | itfcjoe |
| The irony of M on 22:52 - Jan 7 by Superfrans |
I take your point.
But, for one thing, the spine you are talking about was (and has) got older and older. Chambers is now 33, Skuse turns 33 in March. We are no closer to replacing them now than we were 5 years ago.
We have relied in the last three years on an outstanding goalkeeper and an outstanding creative loanee (Celina, Lawrence, Fraser and Williams) to provide some creative threat.
Our only other creative player was allowed to let his contract run down. Even Chambers last season said we shouldn’t let him leave, let alone for nothing.
FWIW, I’m sure we all got used to the way life under Mick, the waves of incoming players, their minimal medium term impact (how many players contributed to the club for more than a season or two?) which led to a constant requirement for more new players... that doesn’t make it a good or workable medium term strategy. It makes it a strategy which we (Mick) was just about able to manage on a season by season basis. But it doesn’t make for a healthy club long term.
Again, I’m not saying that Mick is alone responsible for all of our current ills. There are clearly mitigating factors and others who contributed to where we are now.
But the wealth of evidence is of a manager (a very well paid one, at that) who oversaw a strategy of gradual decline over five years, who didn’t do anywhere near enough to halt it (or make clear to Evans the long term repercussions) and who had lost interest in the long term interests of the club by the second half of last season, probably before that, and didn’t really care what he left behind.
He pretty much said as much in his final couple of months at the club, didn’t he? - that he’d done his bit, that he wouldn’t be responsible after he had gone. |
But Mick, and his team, had a policy that had brought success (relatively) here. So why would he have changed his tact - he had found a way to punch above our weight. In our last season we finished 12th with 2 of our main midfield signings playing 10 games between them, and our great white hope Dozzell having his season ended 45 minutes into it.
What else could Mick have done last summer? He would have been setting up for the season ahead, as he always had done. Our squad was in a better state at end of last season than at one before so how is that gradual decline? | |
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| The irony of MM on 09:30 - Jan 8 with 820 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The irony of MM on 19:51 - Jan 7 by GluedtoBlue |
Except MM never had this situation to face. If PL had the summer here I doubt very much this would have come out.
It's making it clear that it's not him. He needs it to workout at town as much as we need it to. |
He did when he joined ius, although the ravages of time and dullness of the last 5 years have taken away my memory of whether he made lots of quick changes when he first sorted out PJ's mess. Didn't he recruit players like McG, Tabby, Stearman, Mings straight away?
Coincidently, PJ failed after bringing in loads of new signings and loans in the summer. |  |
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