| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... 12:50 - Mar 5 with 16724 views | XYZ |
who knew?
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:02 - Mar 5 with 2693 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 20:58 - Mar 5 by GlasgowBlue |
The state of British politics today.
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Indeed. Let's hope both parties take action on any members being fkcing twonks.
But what can or should Labour do about non-members and non-British Tw@tterers? You seem to include many of them in your dossiers, so just wondering...
Have the Tories launched any investigations into Islamophobia btw? Seems their party machinery works far slower than Labour's if so. |  |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:40 - Mar 5 with 2658 views | ZedRodgers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 20:54 - Mar 5 by XYZ |
Hardly "swift", unless you mean "swiftly once the story gained some mainstream media traction"
For all its faults, Labour's dealing with anti-Semitism can be shown to exist - these complaints were simply ignored by Teresa May and Brandon Lewis.. |
Yep. Screenshots from that Facebook group have been floating around Twitter for weeks. Now something has finally been done after a couple of high profile retweets and GB praises it as swift action. It’s quite a rose-tinted view he has of that party for a man driven to leave it by his morals.
If the Conservative Party had any kind of transparent mechanism in place for dealing with things like this then the complaints wouldn’t have fallen on deaf ears for weeks as so many others have done. |  |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:47 - Mar 5 with 2642 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:40 - Mar 5 by ZedRodgers |
Yep. Screenshots from that Facebook group have been floating around Twitter for weeks. Now something has finally been done after a couple of high profile retweets and GB praises it as swift action. It’s quite a rose-tinted view he has of that party for a man driven to leave it by his morals.
If the Conservative Party had any kind of transparent mechanism in place for dealing with things like this then the complaints wouldn’t have fallen on deaf ears for weeks as so many others have done. |
Endemic Tory party bullying led to the whitewashing of a suicide case of a teen activist. Nothing institutionalised about that.
Wonder what Grant Shapps is up to these days? Turns out he's still an MP - weird.
Oh yeah, and he received an £8k pay-off when he was forced to resign.
Not that GB is a Tory and has to defend any of that, you understand.  | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:50 - Mar 5 with 2633 views | SpruceMoose |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:47 - Mar 5 by footers |
Endemic Tory party bullying led to the whitewashing of a suicide case of a teen activist. Nothing institutionalised about that.
Wonder what Grant Shapps is up to these days? Turns out he's still an MP - weird.
Oh yeah, and he received an £8k pay-off when he was forced to resign.
Not that GB is a Tory and has to defend any of that, you understand. |
Footers, be fair. If the Tory party didn't have double standards they wouldn't have any standards at all. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:53 - Mar 5 with 2618 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:02 - Mar 5 by footers |
Indeed. Let's hope both parties take action on any members being fkcing twonks.
But what can or should Labour do about non-members and non-British Tw@tterers? You seem to include many of them in your dossiers, so just wondering...
Have the Tories launched any investigations into Islamophobia btw? Seems their party machinery works far slower than Labour's if so. |
"You seem to include many of them in your dossiers".
Well that's utter bollox. Every link I have put up 0on here over the past few years has been a UK Labour member.
You are referring to one incident, an American, which I used as an aside to BackToRussia who shared the same view as the American tweeter. At no stage did I say this person was a Labour member or use this person as an example of Labour anti semitism. It was a case of "are you this bloke BTR"?
Perhaps you'd care to withdraw your comment? If you don't then I can only conclude you have zero interest in the facts and instead are deliberately trying to discredit somebody who is calling out racism. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 21:56]
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:54 - Mar 5 with 2623 views | Championship |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:50 - Mar 5 by SpruceMoose |
Footers, be fair. If the Tory party didn't have double standards they wouldn't have any standards at all. |
Don't be mean Spruce. Not all Tories are bastards  |  | | |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:55 - Mar 5 with 2619 views | SpruceMoose |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:54 - Mar 5 by Championship |
Don't be mean Spruce. Not all Tories are bastards |
You're right. Not all Tories are bastards. All bastards are Tories though  | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:56 - Mar 5 with 2617 views | XYZ |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:40 - Mar 5 by ZedRodgers |
Yep. Screenshots from that Facebook group have been floating around Twitter for weeks. Now something has finally been done after a couple of high profile retweets and GB praises it as swift action. It’s quite a rose-tinted view he has of that party for a man driven to leave it by his morals.
If the Conservative Party had any kind of transparent mechanism in place for dealing with things like this then the complaints wouldn’t have fallen on deaf ears for weeks as so many others have done. |
Baroness Warsi has been talking about this since last summer (at least), so it's months, not weeks.
Neither party's looking remotely decent on this issue.
It looks like Jo Cox's "we have more in common …" ideas died with her. | | | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:02 - Mar 5 with 2602 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:47 - Mar 5 by footers |
Endemic Tory party bullying led to the whitewashing of a suicide case of a teen activist. Nothing institutionalised about that.
Wonder what Grant Shapps is up to these days? Turns out he's still an MP - weird.
Oh yeah, and he received an £8k pay-off when he was forced to resign.
Not that GB is a Tory and has to defend any of that, you understand. |
What does any of that have to do with me and where have I defended it. I couldn't have been any clearer in my condemnation of the Tories Islamophobia issue.
Unlike you who seems to be an anti racist when it's coming from the Tories whilst excusing, denying and defending racism form the party you support.
I said it before and I stand by it. You are prepared to throw the Jews under a bus if it gets you a Labour government. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:03 - Mar 5 with 2604 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:53 - Mar 5 by GlasgowBlue |
"You seem to include many of them in your dossiers".
Well that's utter bollox. Every link I have put up 0on here over the past few years has been a UK Labour member.
You are referring to one incident, an American, which I used as an aside to BackToRussia who shared the same view as the American tweeter. At no stage did I say this person was a Labour member or use this person as an example of Labour anti semitism. It was a case of "are you this bloke BTR"?
Perhaps you'd care to withdraw your comment? If you don't then I can only conclude you have zero interest in the facts and instead are deliberately trying to discredit somebody who is calling out racism. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 21:56]
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Maybe I have misremembered certain things. Will go back and check. But usually, to my mind, your Tw@ts just have 'LabourMemberJohn' as usernames? Not sure how you'd be able to check if or if not they were party members?
Really don't have the time for deep-delve as I have American overlords to serve, but will take a look tomorrow when the more humourless of my team disappears for their billionth meeting of the day.
#agilemarketing
Edit: Less is more- according to my edit. Sorry, I like to clarify any edits as to their contents- don't want any confusion. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 22:05]
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:13 - Mar 5 with 2589 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:02 - Mar 5 by GlasgowBlue |
What does any of that have to do with me and where have I defended it. I couldn't have been any clearer in my condemnation of the Tories Islamophobia issue.
Unlike you who seems to be an anti racist when it's coming from the Tories whilst excusing, denying and defending racism form the party you support.
I said it before and I stand by it. You are prepared to throw the Jews under a bus if it gets you a Labour government. |
Ooh blimey.
Just wondering whether the Tory party were taking official action on their institutionalised Islamophobia, bullying, or other such matters seems to be? A party of whose views you seem generally supportive and were an 'ex'-member of.
You wouldn't want to be accused of not being even-handed with these matters, would you? After all, you do accuse others of the same when not condemning x or y issue as it suits? If you don't condemn this then how dare you speak on that, etc.
It just appears that your stand against antisemitism is limited mainly to the UK and mainly to the Labour party.
You have again accused me of antisemitism, whether you consider it direct or not, I do. Please retract it.
P.S. I have ordered some special reading on the matter - 'What a Jew Wants' - by various eminent philosophers. Shall read and report back. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:14 - Mar 5 with 2583 views | pickles110564 |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:40 - Mar 5 by ZedRodgers |
Yep. Screenshots from that Facebook group have been floating around Twitter for weeks. Now something has finally been done after a couple of high profile retweets and GB praises it as swift action. It’s quite a rose-tinted view he has of that party for a man driven to leave it by his morals.
If the Conservative Party had any kind of transparent mechanism in place for dealing with things like this then the complaints wouldn’t have fallen on deaf ears for weeks as so many others have done. |
Your type of labour party is thankfully coming to an end very soon, can't wait to get our labour party back. |  | | |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:15 - Mar 5 with 2582 views | pickles110564 |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 21:55 - Mar 5 by SpruceMoose |
You're right. Not all Tories are bastards. All bastards are Tories though |
that not fair m8 | | | |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:18 - Mar 5 with 2561 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:13 - Mar 5 by footers |
Ooh blimey.
Just wondering whether the Tory party were taking official action on their institutionalised Islamophobia, bullying, or other such matters seems to be? A party of whose views you seem generally supportive and were an 'ex'-member of.
You wouldn't want to be accused of not being even-handed with these matters, would you? After all, you do accuse others of the same when not condemning x or y issue as it suits? If you don't condemn this then how dare you speak on that, etc.
It just appears that your stand against antisemitism is limited mainly to the UK and mainly to the Labour party.
You have again accused me of antisemitism, whether you consider it direct or not, I do. Please retract it.
P.S. I have ordered some special reading on the matter - 'What a Jew Wants' - by various eminent philosophers. Shall read and report back. |
You’re not an antisemite. You just look the other way when it suits. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:19 - Mar 5 with 2559 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:18 - Mar 5 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re not an antisemite. You just look the other way when it suits. |
As do you. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:24 - Mar 5 with 2526 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:19 - Mar 5 by footers |
As do you. |
That’s the thing mate. I don’t. I’m consistent. As I’ve shown time and again.
XYZ posts a blog exposing Tories of Islamophobia and you, like me, take that as face value. You don’t question whether they are Tory members. I post similar from blogs exposing Labour antisemites and your first thought is to question whether they are labour members.
There is your prejudice right there. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 22:25]
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:37 - Mar 5 with 2509 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:24 - Mar 5 by GlasgowBlue |
That’s the thing mate. I don’t. I’m consistent. As I’ve shown time and again.
XYZ posts a blog exposing Tories of Islamophobia and you, like me, take that as face value. You don’t question whether they are Tory members. I post similar from blogs exposing Labour antisemites and your first thought is to question whether they are labour members.
There is your prejudice right there. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 22:25]
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No. I believe you don't have the same consistent level of fact-checking when it comes to this issue. I don't believe you assess the evidence in a critical manner, because it suits you.
Saying you are consistent doesn't make it so.
We differ on what we call antisemitism. That much is true. Me posting that Israel is a racist endeavour is to you, and according to the IHRA definition, antisemitic. My, and probably most others', problem with a lot of your evidence is that it is arguable. There seems to be no room for argument or nuance with you on this.
I have never for one second denied any antisemitism in the Labour party, let's make that clear. My issue is with your refusal to debate the fact that much of your evidence falls within this category. Conflating it with actual racial/religious abuse muddies the waters. This is the problem.
Most "hard leftists" are critical of the Israeli state. As are many Jews. For me, including tweets which are "anti-Zionist" rather than antisemitic is a problem. Lumping in examples which are obvious with those that are arguable seems uncritical of you. That's all.
If we can completely dismiss and condemn what I'd call antisemitism proper and debate those which, to my mind, have nuance, then great- let's have that discussion. But it seems you are intent on conflating the two to create a body of evidence. Please prove me wrong.
Edit: non-critical to critical. Jesus! [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 22:46]
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:37 - Mar 5 with 2506 views | SpruceMoose |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:15 - Mar 5 by pickles110564 |
that not fair m8 |
It was a joke. Kind of. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:49 - Mar 5 with 2478 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:13 - Mar 5 by footers |
Ooh blimey.
Just wondering whether the Tory party were taking official action on their institutionalised Islamophobia, bullying, or other such matters seems to be? A party of whose views you seem generally supportive and were an 'ex'-member of.
You wouldn't want to be accused of not being even-handed with these matters, would you? After all, you do accuse others of the same when not condemning x or y issue as it suits? If you don't condemn this then how dare you speak on that, etc.
It just appears that your stand against antisemitism is limited mainly to the UK and mainly to the Labour party.
You have again accused me of antisemitism, whether you consider it direct or not, I do. Please retract it.
P.S. I have ordered some special reading on the matter - 'What a Jew Wants' - by various eminent philosophers. Shall read and report back. |
“If you don't condemn this then how dare you speak on that, etc”
I was the first person to reply to the fookin thread FFS
Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... by GlasgowBlue 5 Mar 2019 12:53I've said for some time that the Conservative party is institutionally Islamophobic. Senior Tories are ignoring the issue and allowing it to grow. Boris was allowed to make his Burka comments without censure. Muslim Conservatives have been speaking out against it and they are being ignored or dismissed.
It needs to be called out and highlighted.
Re AS. I think I’ve explained a zillion times why this ism has extra special meaning to me. Would you tell somebody of African heritage that they speak more about racism that affects black peoples more than other forms of racism? If somebody had the surname Mohamed, would you pull them up for talking about Islamophobia more than say antisemitism?
And if that person posted about Islamophobia in the Tory party more than they did about the issue in the Labour Party, would you question their motives? Or would you quite rightly conclude that it is far more widespread in the Tory party than it is in Labour?
Every way I look at your posts and your constant need to attack me or my motives, and the way you play down the racism I highlight, leads me to conclude yiu are compilation in normalising antisemitism
That may hurt you, but apply the examples I just gave yiu regarding people of other ethnic backgrounds and ask yourself honestly if you would react the same? I think the answer may make you feel a little uneasy. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 22:50]
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 23:05 - Mar 5 with 2468 views | footers |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 22:49 - Mar 5 by GlasgowBlue |
“If you don't condemn this then how dare you speak on that, etc”
I was the first person to reply to the fookin thread FFS
Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... by GlasgowBlue 5 Mar 2019 12:53I've said for some time that the Conservative party is institutionally Islamophobic. Senior Tories are ignoring the issue and allowing it to grow. Boris was allowed to make his Burka comments without censure. Muslim Conservatives have been speaking out against it and they are being ignored or dismissed.
It needs to be called out and highlighted.
Re AS. I think I’ve explained a zillion times why this ism has extra special meaning to me. Would you tell somebody of African heritage that they speak more about racism that affects black peoples more than other forms of racism? If somebody had the surname Mohamed, would you pull them up for talking about Islamophobia more than say antisemitism?
And if that person posted about Islamophobia in the Tory party more than they did about the issue in the Labour Party, would you question their motives? Or would you quite rightly conclude that it is far more widespread in the Tory party than it is in Labour?
Every way I look at your posts and your constant need to attack me or my motives, and the way you play down the racism I highlight, leads me to conclude yiu are compilation in normalising antisemitism
That may hurt you, but apply the examples I just gave yiu regarding people of other ethnic backgrounds and ask yourself honestly if you would react the same? I think the answer may make you feel a little uneasy. [Post edited 5 Mar 2019 22:50]
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You may have missed them but there have been many global stories on antisemitism happening within the last two weeks- must have missed your posts on those? Or are you only concerned about British Jews? For a diasporic people that would be a strange view to take.
Again, you seem to want to lack nuance in your debate on this. If a Labour member criticises Iran, the state of Iran does not get special exemption on account of them being Islamic. Israel is seemingly the only state in the world that does so. But you refuse to acknowledge this complex relationship between race, religion, state and the wider world.
You can quite clearly see in my posts that I am against antisemitism and any other form of racism. Like you I will insist on having form here. What I want to distinguish and debate are clear forms of antisemitism and those which are debatable, thanks to strict definitions which include Israel as an example despite it all being nothing to do with Israel- apparently.
If you do not want to have that debate that is fine. Continue referencing the IHRA definition including eight mentions of the Israeli state while disputing any grey areas on the subject.
You have failed to respond to the main points in my post so let's leave it there as I'm off to the land of really dreary and repetitive dreams. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 10:58 - Mar 6 with 2348 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 23:05 - Mar 5 by footers |
You may have missed them but there have been many global stories on antisemitism happening within the last two weeks- must have missed your posts on those? Or are you only concerned about British Jews? For a diasporic people that would be a strange view to take.
Again, you seem to want to lack nuance in your debate on this. If a Labour member criticises Iran, the state of Iran does not get special exemption on account of them being Islamic. Israel is seemingly the only state in the world that does so. But you refuse to acknowledge this complex relationship between race, religion, state and the wider world.
You can quite clearly see in my posts that I am against antisemitism and any other form of racism. Like you I will insist on having form here. What I want to distinguish and debate are clear forms of antisemitism and those which are debatable, thanks to strict definitions which include Israel as an example despite it all being nothing to do with Israel- apparently.
If you do not want to have that debate that is fine. Continue referencing the IHRA definition including eight mentions of the Israeli state while disputing any grey areas on the subject.
You have failed to respond to the main points in my post so let's leave it there as I'm off to the land of really dreary and repetitive dreams. |
I don’t want another day of going backwards and forwards on this subject so I’ll say this and get on with the rest of my day.
Firstly. As I said last night, would you tell somebody of African heritage that they speak more about racism that affects black people more than other forms of racism? And taking that one step further, would you berate this man of African descent for speaking about racism against black people in the UK? I’d like an answer to that please.
Next up. Your right to say something that is antisemitic without being accused of being an anti-Semite. That’s what realy bugs you isn’t it. Well you don’t get to decide what is antisemitic. The IHRA is the accepted definition of antisemitism. Only somebody who would like to say something racist objects to a definition of a particular type of racism.
You are demanding the right to say something which the IHRA classes as anti Semitic People that want to say racist thing about people from another country don’t get decide what is and what is racist. Do you think that those referred to on here as the “top gear gang” should be allowed to decide what is and what isn’t Islamophobic? Of course not.
The IHRA definition is good enough for a total of 31 countries, as well as more than 130 UK local councils, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and the judiciary. Why isn’t it good enough for you, Jeremy Corbyn and Victor Orban?
The IHRA definition does not stop people criticising the actions of the Israeli government. In fact it explicitly says “criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”
So you can criticise Israel in exactly the same way to can criticise Iran. But I don’t hear many people saying that Iran has no right to exist.
You can say that Bibi’s polices are racist. You can say that Israel is a racist state. You can call Israel an apartheid state, You’d be wrong as Arab Israelies are judges, MPs and so on, and they share the same beaches and hotels. But you can say it and you won’t fall foul of the IHRA code.
The example you seem to take issue with is “Israel is a racist endeavour”. And you believe that anti Zionism is not antisemtism.
Both are antisemitic.
Calling the state of Israel a racist endeavour. This is not the same as saying Israel is a racist country. It is saying that the very existence of Israel, as a Jewish state, is racist. That the Jewish people who were exiled from their own land by the Romans, who have been persecuted endlessly for the past 2000 years and who were kettled in Europe by governments around the world, including our own, whilst the Nazis attempted to exterminate every last one of them, have no right to exist as a country in their own historical territory.
Would you call Pakistan a racist endeavour? Pakistan as a country was set up around the same time as Israel. Based on Indian Muslims having their own homeland. I haven’t seen you once refer to Pakistan as a racist endeavour. So what is it about the Jews having their own homeland that means you single them out?
If it is because the Palestinian people were displaced (And remember, Palestinians were also given their own homeland during partition but decided to go into exile whilst the likes of Syria, Transjordan, and Egypt stole their land) , then why do I hear nothing from you about the 14 million displaced because of the creation of Pakistan? Or the 2 million who died? You see my problem. You are singling out those Jews again.
You are not simply saying, “I object to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians,” or whatever policy you object to. And you are quite right to criticise Bibi’s racist policies. You are saying the nation shouldn’t even exist. This is the same as saying, “The Jewish people themselves should not exist;” Israel does not simply refer to the State, but to the nation of the Jewish people. A safe haven for Jews after two millennia of persecution.
Neither Germany, which perpetrated genocide against a large portion of Europeans, nor the USA, which used atomic weapons on Japan, had worldwide clamouring for an end to their very existence. Assad gasses his own people and murders more Palestinians in a single air strike than Israel has in a decade yet there is no call for Syria to lose the right to exist as a nation. Put in murders and imprisons his political opponents and we don’t call for the Russian people to lose their right to self determination.
It makes me wonder why you and others reserve this special treatment for Isarael.
People have been trying to eliminate the Jewish people for centuries. The Holocaust necessitated Jews forming their own state to begin with. Perversely, not having their own state to return to contributed to the number of deaths in the Holocaust. And now you want to reserve the right to deny the Jewish people their own homeland. And that is why anti Zionism is antisemitism. Because Zionism is the right for Jews to self determination in their historical homeland.
Lastly, you have a history of attempting to discredit the examples of antisemitism I link when they come from Labour members. As I said last night, XYZ posts a twitter link of Tory Islamophobes and you take it at face value (as did I). If I link something similar, but with regards to antisemiitsm from Labour members, you do everything you can to play down whether they are genuinely members or not. That is prejudice right there. The other tactic you tend to use is to say that in your option they are mostly links to anti Zionism rather than antisemitism (which I’ve just covered above). Completely ignoring the endless examples of death threats, Jew hate, Holocaust denial, blood libel I have linked.
I await your reply*.
*Your reply. Not zed's or DK's or banksy's. I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend another day doing the same dance. I just want to see your reply to this post. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 11:07 - Mar 6 with 2335 views | footers |
Just so I'm not accused of ducking your response, GB, I will say that I can only give your post the considered and lengthy reply it requires when I get home this evening. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 11:10 - Mar 6 with 2324 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 11:07 - Mar 6 by footers |
Just so I'm not accused of ducking your response, GB, I will say that I can only give your post the considered and lengthy reply it requires when I get home this evening. |
I have no issue with that. I'm pretty busy myself today. | |
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| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 11:38 - Mar 6 with 2295 views | Darth_Koont |
| Meanwhile, the Nasty Party carries on ... on 10:58 - Mar 6 by GlasgowBlue |
I don’t want another day of going backwards and forwards on this subject so I’ll say this and get on with the rest of my day.
Firstly. As I said last night, would you tell somebody of African heritage that they speak more about racism that affects black people more than other forms of racism? And taking that one step further, would you berate this man of African descent for speaking about racism against black people in the UK? I’d like an answer to that please.
Next up. Your right to say something that is antisemitic without being accused of being an anti-Semite. That’s what realy bugs you isn’t it. Well you don’t get to decide what is antisemitic. The IHRA is the accepted definition of antisemitism. Only somebody who would like to say something racist objects to a definition of a particular type of racism.
You are demanding the right to say something which the IHRA classes as anti Semitic People that want to say racist thing about people from another country don’t get decide what is and what is racist. Do you think that those referred to on here as the “top gear gang” should be allowed to decide what is and what isn’t Islamophobic? Of course not.
The IHRA definition is good enough for a total of 31 countries, as well as more than 130 UK local councils, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and the judiciary. Why isn’t it good enough for you, Jeremy Corbyn and Victor Orban?
The IHRA definition does not stop people criticising the actions of the Israeli government. In fact it explicitly says “criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.”
So you can criticise Israel in exactly the same way to can criticise Iran. But I don’t hear many people saying that Iran has no right to exist.
You can say that Bibi’s polices are racist. You can say that Israel is a racist state. You can call Israel an apartheid state, You’d be wrong as Arab Israelies are judges, MPs and so on, and they share the same beaches and hotels. But you can say it and you won’t fall foul of the IHRA code.
The example you seem to take issue with is “Israel is a racist endeavour”. And you believe that anti Zionism is not antisemtism.
Both are antisemitic.
Calling the state of Israel a racist endeavour. This is not the same as saying Israel is a racist country. It is saying that the very existence of Israel, as a Jewish state, is racist. That the Jewish people who were exiled from their own land by the Romans, who have been persecuted endlessly for the past 2000 years and who were kettled in Europe by governments around the world, including our own, whilst the Nazis attempted to exterminate every last one of them, have no right to exist as a country in their own historical territory.
Would you call Pakistan a racist endeavour? Pakistan as a country was set up around the same time as Israel. Based on Indian Muslims having their own homeland. I haven’t seen you once refer to Pakistan as a racist endeavour. So what is it about the Jews having their own homeland that means you single them out?
If it is because the Palestinian people were displaced (And remember, Palestinians were also given their own homeland during partition but decided to go into exile whilst the likes of Syria, Transjordan, and Egypt stole their land) , then why do I hear nothing from you about the 14 million displaced because of the creation of Pakistan? Or the 2 million who died? You see my problem. You are singling out those Jews again.
You are not simply saying, “I object to Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians,” or whatever policy you object to. And you are quite right to criticise Bibi’s racist policies. You are saying the nation shouldn’t even exist. This is the same as saying, “The Jewish people themselves should not exist;” Israel does not simply refer to the State, but to the nation of the Jewish people. A safe haven for Jews after two millennia of persecution.
Neither Germany, which perpetrated genocide against a large portion of Europeans, nor the USA, which used atomic weapons on Japan, had worldwide clamouring for an end to their very existence. Assad gasses his own people and murders more Palestinians in a single air strike than Israel has in a decade yet there is no call for Syria to lose the right to exist as a nation. Put in murders and imprisons his political opponents and we don’t call for the Russian people to lose their right to self determination.
It makes me wonder why you and others reserve this special treatment for Isarael.
People have been trying to eliminate the Jewish people for centuries. The Holocaust necessitated Jews forming their own state to begin with. Perversely, not having their own state to return to contributed to the number of deaths in the Holocaust. And now you want to reserve the right to deny the Jewish people their own homeland. And that is why anti Zionism is antisemitism. Because Zionism is the right for Jews to self determination in their historical homeland.
Lastly, you have a history of attempting to discredit the examples of antisemitism I link when they come from Labour members. As I said last night, XYZ posts a twitter link of Tory Islamophobes and you take it at face value (as did I). If I link something similar, but with regards to antisemiitsm from Labour members, you do everything you can to play down whether they are genuinely members or not. That is prejudice right there. The other tactic you tend to use is to say that in your option they are mostly links to anti Zionism rather than antisemitism (which I’ve just covered above). Completely ignoring the endless examples of death threats, Jew hate, Holocaust denial, blood libel I have linked.
I await your reply*.
*Your reply. Not zed's or DK's or banksy's. I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend another day doing the same dance. I just want to see your reply to this post. |
The usual specious and disingenuous nonsense.
I can now get on with the rest of my day too.  |  |
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