| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:22 - Apr 16 with 1067 views | Pendejo |
I like it, but it's not true.
We are forever tarnished by the original sin committed by Adam and Eve, eating the ðŸŽand then realising they were naked. Or something like that.
Also, I am told that you can be a mass murderer, rapist Naaridge supporter, but as long as you accept Jesus into your heart before dying you go to heaven...
So the big G, is a vindictive bar steward who had damned the human race for eternity, then his hippy traveller son comes along and forgives everything as long as you love him. Sounds like some landlords I've heard of... |  |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:22 - Apr 16 with 1064 views | WeWereZombies |
'There's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes,
Jesus Christ died for nothin I suppose.'
'Sam Stone' by John Prine |  |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:28 - Apr 16 with 1054 views | bluelagos |
Loving it Bankster :-)
Emancipation day in America I believe, so I shall freeing myself from the more hysterical Twtd reactions and putting on a rucksack whilst cycling, before sitting under a tree, having a takeaway coffee whilst breathing in as much fresh air as I can in this beautiful part of the world.
#reclaimthelanes |  |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:52 - Apr 16 with 1031 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:28 - Apr 16 by bluelagos |
Loving it Bankster :-)
Emancipation day in America I believe, so I shall freeing myself from the more hysterical Twtd reactions and putting on a rucksack whilst cycling, before sitting under a tree, having a takeaway coffee whilst breathing in as much fresh air as I can in this beautiful part of the world.
#reclaimthelanes |
You are a very bad man Mr Lagos but Jesus will forgive you even if the little robot fella on here does not. |  |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:58 - Apr 16 with 1016 views | sparks |
Define sin.
And prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus existed.
 |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:12 - Apr 16 with 998 views | WeWereZombies |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:58 - Apr 16 by sparks |
Define sin.
And prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus existed.
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I don't think it is the existence of Jesus that is the big issue but whether the Abrahamic religions are correct to insist on the existence of a god (and only one). We exist in terms of the Cogito and we extend a totality of Nature from that. If that constitutes a single god then it unquestionably exists - but it is almost certain not to be in the form of a human being, or to have any intention that favours humans. | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:18 - Apr 16 with 991 views | Basuco |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:28 - Apr 16 by bluelagos |
Loving it Bankster :-)
Emancipation day in America I believe, so I shall freeing myself from the more hysterical Twtd reactions and putting on a rucksack whilst cycling, before sitting under a tree, having a takeaway coffee whilst breathing in as much fresh air as I can in this beautiful part of the world.
#reclaimthelanes |
You can't beat the feeling of rolling along the lanes on a bike in great weather, enjoy BL. |  | | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:19 - Apr 16 with 991 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:12 - Apr 16 by WeWereZombies |
I don't think it is the existence of Jesus that is the big issue but whether the Abrahamic religions are correct to insist on the existence of a god (and only one). We exist in terms of the Cogito and we extend a totality of Nature from that. If that constitutes a single god then it unquestionably exists - but it is almost certain not to be in the form of a human being, or to have any intention that favours humans. |
It is very gratifying to see that my thought is activating the collective TWTD grey matter. | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:33 - Apr 16 with 984 views | WeWereZombies |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:17 - Apr 16 by Guthrum |
Point of order - prove beyond doubt that Alexander the Great existed, given most we have to go on is a handful of second-hand accounts from four or five hundred years later and a load of posthumous statues and hagiographic/mythological writing. Not that dissimilar to what we have for King Arthur.
That's the problem with many ancient historical figures, the concrete (especially contemporary) evidence for their existence and deeds is exceedingly slim.
Jesus doesn't do too badly on that score. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 9:21]
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Indeed, all truths are relative, dependent upon evidence (at least for empiricists, if not for those of faith) and subject to change both in the light of new evidence and new avenues in thinking.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/features/the-scientists-w | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:51 - Apr 16 with 972 views | hampstead_blue |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:58 - Apr 16 by sparks |
Define sin.
And prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus existed.
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Thanks. I was about to ask for evidence....
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| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 12:30 - Apr 16 with 930 views | Durovigutum |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 08:58 - Apr 16 by sparks |
Define sin.
And prove beyond reasonable doubt that Jesus existed.
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Almost all historians will agree that there is more evidence that someone called Jesus lived and died in and around Jerusalem and had a number of religiously motivated followers, than there is that Julius Caesar was a real person.
The question is the validity and interpretation of what Jesus did when alive (and dead, and alive again). Think USA in WW2, they were definitely there, but (as some cinematic accounts suggest) did they single handedly smite the enemy while the Brits drank tea and the Russians vodka? DYOR. |  | | |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 12:47 - Apr 16 with 924 views | hampstead_blue |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 12:30 - Apr 16 by Durovigutum |
Almost all historians will agree that there is more evidence that someone called Jesus lived and died in and around Jerusalem and had a number of religiously motivated followers, than there is that Julius Caesar was a real person.
The question is the validity and interpretation of what Jesus did when alive (and dead, and alive again). Think USA in WW2, they were definitely there, but (as some cinematic accounts suggest) did they single handedly smite the enemy while the Brits drank tea and the Russians vodka? DYOR. |
A very interesting post indeed.
I didn't know that old Julius wasn't well documented as I 'd have thought the Romans would have been good at that kind of thing.
Am a firm believer in the fact that religion is all fictitious and a huge fan of Dawkins, Hitchens at all.
However, you have raised an eyebrow with your statement about Julius. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 14:22 - Apr 16 with 905 views | Guthrum |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 12:47 - Apr 16 by hampstead_blue |
A very interesting post indeed.
I didn't know that old Julius wasn't well documented as I 'd have thought the Romans would have been good at that kind of thing.
Am a firm believer in the fact that religion is all fictitious and a huge fan of Dawkins, Hitchens at all.
However, you have raised an eyebrow with your statement about Julius. |
Very many ancient (and even medieval) figures are only thinly documented - if at all - in surviving contemporary texts. In a lot of cases we only have later quotes from lost books by historians who were writing centuries after the person in question died.
To the extent that with some of the Egyptian Kings/Pharoahs, they don't know whether they were father and son, siblings, unrelated or even different names for the same person. |  |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 14:58 - Apr 16 with 895 views | Rocky |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 12:30 - Apr 16 by Durovigutum |
Almost all historians will agree that there is more evidence that someone called Jesus lived and died in and around Jerusalem and had a number of religiously motivated followers, than there is that Julius Caesar was a real person.
The question is the validity and interpretation of what Jesus did when alive (and dead, and alive again). Think USA in WW2, they were definitely there, but (as some cinematic accounts suggest) did they single handedly smite the enemy while the Brits drank tea and the Russians vodka? DYOR. |
Didn't Julius personally write that contemporary best-seller "Commentarii de Bello Gallico"? |  | | |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:12 - Apr 16 with 871 views | Mullet |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 09:17 - Apr 16 by Guthrum |
Point of order - prove beyond doubt that Alexander the Great existed, given most we have to go on is a handful of second-hand accounts from four or five hundred years later and a load of posthumous statues and hagiographic/mythological writing. Not that dissimilar to what we have for King Arthur.
That's the problem with many ancient historical figures, the concrete (especially contemporary) evidence for their existence and deeds is exceedingly slim.
Jesus doesn't do too badly on that score. [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 9:21]
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Quite it's an astounding demonstration of academic ignorance and ironic zealotry that sees atheists still peddling this line.
Jesus' life (and specifically his execution) is documented by Roman, Jewish and Middle Eastern sources. Suetonius, the Talmud, Celsus, Josephus, Pliny and more, all give a historical source. He's referred to as Christus and the Nazarene, his execution is described as unjust and overly cruel in some sources, one source confuses him with being stoned rather than executed (possibly confusing the stories he told such as the adulteress being spared, rather than his own story).
It's pretty clear the spread of the accounts and how they were edited for specific audiences by early Christians such as the way the gospels differ depending on when and who wrote them, and for what purpose. E.g the synoptic three vs. John.
Likewise if Jesus didn't exist, why would people in living memory mention him and the story in a Christian tradition such as the letters from St. Peter and the like? It's historically illiterate to suggest that, given the context of the society.
I didn't realise that there was actually archealogical evidence for Pilate found in the 70's either until this year. The idea that a obscure peasant would accumulate lots of artefacts in 30 or so years, and leave a trail greater than people who ran, as far those societies were concerned - the world is absurd.
Even if Jesus' ministry was somehow in the thousands and he was eclipsing the local Jewish community it's clear the subsequent emperors such as Nero would have erased as much as they could, and done so easily. It took a few generations for conversation after all didn't it? |  |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:15 - Apr 16 with 868 views | Guthrum |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 14:58 - Apr 16 by Rocky |
Didn't Julius personally write that contemporary best-seller "Commentarii de Bello Gallico"? |
The earliest surviving texts for which are dated to the 9th century.
There was also a fashion for writing works under somebody else's name. Was considered as complimentary, not fraud (as we'd see it nowadays).
Parts of it are also quite wildly fictional/propaganda. | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:20 - Apr 16 with 867 views | Mullet |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 14:58 - Apr 16 by Rocky |
Didn't Julius personally write that contemporary best-seller "Commentarii de Bello Gallico"? |
Do any originals exist though? As I understand it, pretty much every Roman text comes from medieval translations and copies.
Likewise loads of Chinese stuff too such Sun Tzu etc. (another person who may or may not have been many people) | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:40 - Apr 16 with 853 views | leitrimblue |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 12:30 - Apr 16 by Durovigutum |
Almost all historians will agree that there is more evidence that someone called Jesus lived and died in and around Jerusalem and had a number of religiously motivated followers, than there is that Julius Caesar was a real person.
The question is the validity and interpretation of what Jesus did when alive (and dead, and alive again). Think USA in WW2, they were definitely there, but (as some cinematic accounts suggest) did they single handedly smite the enemy while the Brits drank tea and the Russians vodka? DYOR. |
Not sure that's completely true. Never met an historian who believed that the historical existence of Jesus is more likely then Julius Caesar an I know a few historians. I'm no expert in the Roman world but surely there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Caesar, I imagine coinage and contemporary written sources, possibly tacitus?. I should add that I have no doubt what so ever that Jesus existed as well |  | | |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:43 - Apr 16 with 845 views | Mullet |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:40 - Apr 16 by leitrimblue |
Not sure that's completely true. Never met an historian who believed that the historical existence of Jesus is more likely then Julius Caesar an I know a few historians. I'm no expert in the Roman world but surely there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Caesar, I imagine coinage and contemporary written sources, possibly tacitus?. I should add that I have no doubt what so ever that Jesus existed as well |
I think you've demonstrated perfectly why these arguments are so riven with misconceptions and easily undone.
The willingness to accept only primary sources and artefacts for example, is bizarrely inconsistent. As you say, there are plenty of cultural and physical elements of Roman history that show Julius Caesar existed. I guess a bit like Herod, the name Caesar is a family name that can muddle which member of the family tree is being referred to? | |
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| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:50 - Apr 16 with 838 views | solemio |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 14:58 - Apr 16 by Rocky |
Didn't Julius personally write that contemporary best-seller "Commentarii de Bello Gallico"? |
Yes, and I had to study it for Latin GCE O level. Failed! |  | | |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 15:29 - Apr 18 with 763 views | Mullet |
| TWTD thought for the day. on 16:12 - Apr 16 by Mullet |
Quite it's an astounding demonstration of academic ignorance and ironic zealotry that sees atheists still peddling this line.
Jesus' life (and specifically his execution) is documented by Roman, Jewish and Middle Eastern sources. Suetonius, the Talmud, Celsus, Josephus, Pliny and more, all give a historical source. He's referred to as Christus and the Nazarene, his execution is described as unjust and overly cruel in some sources, one source confuses him with being stoned rather than executed (possibly confusing the stories he told such as the adulteress being spared, rather than his own story).
It's pretty clear the spread of the accounts and how they were edited for specific audiences by early Christians such as the way the gospels differ depending on when and who wrote them, and for what purpose. E.g the synoptic three vs. John.
Likewise if Jesus didn't exist, why would people in living memory mention him and the story in a Christian tradition such as the letters from St. Peter and the like? It's historically illiterate to suggest that, given the context of the society.
I didn't realise that there was actually archealogical evidence for Pilate found in the 70's either until this year. The idea that a obscure peasant would accumulate lots of artefacts in 30 or so years, and leave a trail greater than people who ran, as far those societies were concerned - the world is absurd.
Even if Jesus' ministry was somehow in the thousands and he was eclipsing the local Jewish community it's clear the subsequent emperors such as Nero would have erased as much as they could, and done so easily. It took a few generations for conversation after all didn't it? |
Also this article from yesterday gives detailed poo related news regarding Jesus' home town and contemporaries.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/jesus-home-town-nazareth- | |
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