| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans 09:28 - Feb 22 with 1057 views | thebooks |
I guess this is of limited interest, and I’m no financial expert, but football finance seems nuts.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/22/sign-of-the-times-how-english-c
Paying 9.14% APR on a big loan seems unsustainable if Southampton are relegated, which can’t be impossible. Derby aren’t even in the PL, and they’ve mortgaged their ground as well as take out an expensive loan.
Burnley funded their own leveraged buy-out so they’re now in debt after having £40m reserves — again, you can’t guarantee their income in the same way you can Man Us.
Does make me worry about a takeover — that in the haste to get rid of ME we end up seriously indebted. A new owner doesn’t necessarily mean success (see Sunderland 'til I Die).
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:31 - Feb 22 with 1019 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Yep, am worried about any takeover by a consortium. |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:33 - Feb 22 with 1000 views | wkj |
Sadly, now is a very precarious time for the football club circle jerk. Burnley's take over was effectively funded by Burnley FC (See Man United), the loans for survival - almost like investors who loan countries money and ramps up an unsustainable national debt.
It is times like these that the American structure of the league owning the clubs and franchising them out seems appealing... that is until we look at how often NFL teams do a "MK Dons" and can move the other side of the country over night as part of a franchise agreement. [Post edited 22 Feb 2021 9:35]
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:33 - Feb 22 with 998 views | Edmundo |
I agree: we need to have our Directors Board do something they've never done before and act independently.
We need a Sir John Hall, not a Mike Ashley. |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:34 - Feb 22 with 996 views | Guthrum |
That seems a very high rate of interest, particularly at the present time. One wonders how much they paid in fees to brokers and middle men on top (which seems to be common practice).
The advantage we have is not possessing the assets to secure loans against (e.g. the site at Portman Road). |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:35 - Feb 22 with 971 views | Guthrum |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:33 - Feb 22 by Edmundo |
I agree: we need to have our Directors Board do something they've never done before and act independently.
We need a Sir John Hall, not a Mike Ashley. |
What Board of Directors? | |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:37 - Feb 22 with 958 views | Radlett_blue |
Yes, increasing leverage almost always increases risk. Many clubs, as well as Town, did this by securitising future season ticket income as a way of obtaining debt finance. Leeds "bought" expensive players like Rio Ferdinand although the players were really "owned" by a finance company.
I presume Derby are doing this as Mel Morris has either run out of spare cash or doesn't want to put any more of his dwindling fortune into the club.
If Town were taken over by a "consortium", I would shudder as people join a consortium because they want the status of "owning" a football club when they don't have the money (see Michael Knighton).
Evans has been a poor owner in terms of football decisions, but we could easily have had far worse owners - i.e. ones who are dishonest and/or impecunious, such as Michael Anderson. |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:38 - Feb 22 with 951 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:50 - Feb 22 with 890 views | Steve_M |
Yes, this is both worrying for the state of football and also for what any new ownership of ITFC might entail.
Given that the present ownerships seems to presage a long stay in the lower divisions I doubt anyone buying the club will do so on the basis of expecting large returns int he short-term though. |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:55 - Feb 22 with 858 views | Guthrum |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:37 - Feb 22 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, increasing leverage almost always increases risk. Many clubs, as well as Town, did this by securitising future season ticket income as a way of obtaining debt finance. Leeds "bought" expensive players like Rio Ferdinand although the players were really "owned" by a finance company.
I presume Derby are doing this as Mel Morris has either run out of spare cash or doesn't want to put any more of his dwindling fortune into the club.
If Town were taken over by a "consortium", I would shudder as people join a consortium because they want the status of "owning" a football club when they don't have the money (see Michael Knighton).
Evans has been a poor owner in terms of football decisions, but we could easily have had far worse owners - i.e. ones who are dishonest and/or impecunious, such as Michael Anderson. |
Tho a consortium can also be a way of mobilising smaller parcels of finance from, perhaps, local business people with an actual interest in the club. | |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:55 - Feb 22 with 849 views | Swansea_Blue |
It's quite common for clubs to take out advances from banks to cover cash flow, but this seems on another level. No surprise to see Derby mentioned! |  |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:08 - Feb 22 with 778 views | thebooks |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 09:55 - Feb 22 by Guthrum |
Tho a consortium can also be a way of mobilising smaller parcels of finance from, perhaps, local business people with an actual interest in the club. |
Yeah, I wonder if that’s the best way ahead, so you get a “proper” sense of ownership from people who actually care about the club.
Obviously need someone/some org to get this idea up and running. I think that’s basically how Norwich and Swansea (used to be, anyway) are run. | | | |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:14 - Feb 22 with 751 views | ElderGrizzly |
No surprise on Derby. They are a financial mess.
Anything where we have external debt leaves us very vulnerable. 'Only' owing it to Evans is the best of a bad bunch of options for debt. |  | | |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:24 - Feb 22 with 720 views | wkj |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:14 - Feb 22 by ElderGrizzly |
No surprise on Derby. They are a financial mess.
Anything where we have external debt leaves us very vulnerable. 'Only' owing it to Evans is the best of a bad bunch of options for debt. |
Yet there were some on here who truely believed Derby were trend setting and we should be doing what they were doing at the time. Granted, Derby are still a league above us - but the point is their unsustainable financial dealings did not buy success like people* claimed it to.
At this stage, only a lucrative takeover will save Derby from fiscal capitulation and go the way of Bolton.
*trolls from northern essex. [Post edited 22 Feb 2021 10:33]
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:41 - Feb 22 with 685 views | Steve_M |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:24 - Feb 22 by wkj |
Yet there were some on here who truely believed Derby were trend setting and we should be doing what they were doing at the time. Granted, Derby are still a league above us - but the point is their unsustainable financial dealings did not buy success like people* claimed it to.
At this stage, only a lucrative takeover will save Derby from fiscal capitulation and go the way of Bolton.
*trolls from northern essex. [Post edited 22 Feb 2021 10:33]
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Balls! | |
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| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 11:00 - Feb 22 with 637 views | Guthrum |
| Southampton and Derby taking out expensive loans on 10:08 - Feb 22 by thebooks |
Yeah, I wonder if that’s the best way ahead, so you get a “proper” sense of ownership from people who actually care about the club.
Obviously need someone/some org to get this idea up and running. I think that’s basically how Norwich and Swansea (used to be, anyway) are run. |
It would be a return to something like we had in the Sheepshanks era.
Unfortunately, there is nowadays a ceiling - largely financial - for such a setup, probably in the lower reaches of the Championship. Unless you can get some decent funding on board somewhere in the process (which is, I think, pretty much what Norwich did). | |
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