| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values 10:02 - Mar 15 with 6072 views | itfcpaul |
Can someone with some knowledge about these things explain to me what value, if any, the shares would be worth if the takeover happens?
I always presumed they were actually worthless and would continue to be, when I bought my Debenture, but wondered if they would have any actual value after takeover?
Not expecting Bitcoin increases obviously........................ |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:24 - Mar 15 with 5314 views | Pinewoodblue |
Thought the Debenture Town issued was basically a 10 year season ticket with added benefits. They must be coming up for renewal in a couple of years. |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:27 - Mar 15 with 5304 views | itfcpaul |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:24 - Mar 15 by Pinewoodblue |
Thought the Debenture Town issued was basically a 10 year season ticket with added benefits. They must be coming up for renewal in a couple of years. |
I may be wrong and I may have become a shareholder in another way at the same time but I am definitely a shareholder?
Not sure what the benefits were as i don't think I/we have seen any really | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:37 - Mar 15 with 5270 views | Pinewoodblue |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:27 - Mar 15 by itfcpaul |
I may be wrong and I may have become a shareholder in another way at the same time but I am definitely a shareholder?
Not sure what the benefits were as i don't think I/we have seen any really |
As shareholders we can look back and say we kept the club afloat thus giving Marcus Evans the opportunity to steer the club back into the big time. Sadly he failed miserably.. | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:38 - Mar 15 with 5261 views | itfcpaul |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:37 - Mar 15 by Pinewoodblue |
As shareholders we can look back and say we kept the club afloat thus giving Marcus Evans the opportunity to steer the club back into the big time. Sadly he failed miserably.. |
and I agree with that but was just posing the question about share value after the takeover...... | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:40 - Mar 15 with 5258 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Surely they're effectively worth nothing because nobody would pay much at all for a small (non-controlling) stake in a loss making business. If Marcus capitalised his debt the shareholding would be diluted to a tiny percentage. | | | |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:50 - Mar 15 with 5227 views | Pinewoodblue |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:38 - Mar 15 by itfcpaul |
and I agree with that but was just posing the question about share value after the takeover...... |
I’m pretty sure, without looking for copies of the accounts, that the company a lot of us have shares in is also in debt to Marcus Evans. If he was to write that debt off, then I suspect the shares may have a nominal value but nothing approaching the price they were purchased at. | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:51 - Mar 15 with 5224 views | itfcpaul |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:40 - Mar 15 by PrideOfTheEast |
Surely they're effectively worth nothing because nobody would pay much at all for a small (non-controlling) stake in a loss making business. If Marcus capitalised his debt the shareholding would be diluted to a tiny percentage. |
I have no idea but that's what I was asking as the shareholders effectively own 12.5% of the club.....so maybe 12.5% of nothing currently but what after the takeover? | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:52 - Mar 15 with 5217 views | itfcpaul |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:50 - Mar 15 by Pinewoodblue |
I’m pretty sure, without looking for copies of the accounts, that the company a lot of us have shares in is also in debt to Marcus Evans. If he was to write that debt off, then I suspect the shares may have a nominal value but nothing approaching the price they were purchased at. |
Thank you | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 12:33 - Mar 15 with 5086 views | ElephantintheRoom |
They are worth nothing - as was clearly stated at the time of purchase.
When season ticket holding turkies voted for a Marcus Evans xmas, they became less than worthless as the football club was hived offshore by the new owner. | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 13:58 - Mar 15 with 4935 views | azuremerlangus |
Face value at the time was 25p.
Unless we get back into the prem and become as popular around the world as Man U they will never be worth even that. |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:27 - Mar 15 with 4883 views | Ryorry |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 13:58 - Mar 15 by azuremerlangus |
Face value at the time was 25p.
Unless we get back into the prem and become as popular around the world as Man U they will never be worth even that. |
Was it? I remember paying £400 for what is now, so I'm told 10 shares. Have the numbers been rationalised in some way? |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:29 - Mar 15 with 4879 views | WeWereZombies |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 11:50 - Mar 15 by Pinewoodblue |
I’m pretty sure, without looking for copies of the accounts, that the company a lot of us have shares in is also in debt to Marcus Evans. If he was to write that debt off, then I suspect the shares may have a nominal value but nothing approaching the price they were purchased at. |
You should have received a letter from Ipswich Town plc last week; at the top of the second page there is a paragraph concerning an accounting adjustment:
'When the club was acquired by Marcus Evans Group in 2007 an inter company loan of £516,000 due from one of the ITFC group companies was capitalised by an issue to Ipswich Town PLC of shares in Club. However, the value of that investment in Club was double counted in the accounts of PLC and subsequently impaired during the year ended 30 June 2008. That has now been corrected by a prior year adjustment to increase reserves brought forward and reduce sums due to Club, which means previously reported net liabilities of £479,000 at 30 June 2019 have been restated to net assets of £37,000. There are no further consequences of this adjustment.'
Not the most straightforward explanation of a c0ck up that I have ever heard (but it does make me wonder if this has only come to light because some due diligence is being done on the Club as precursor to a takeover and the mistake has to be given an airing) and not least because the over familiiar use of 'Club' does not make it easy to discern if it is the plc or the Club part of the Marcus Evans Group or the Marcus Evans Group as a whole who are out of pocket. But on the face of it this seems to make the plc worth £516,000 more than it was at the time of the impairment during the 2007/08 accounting period. |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:30 - Mar 15 with 4880 views | itfcpaul |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:27 - Mar 15 by Ryorry |
Was it? I remember paying £400 for what is now, so I'm told 10 shares. Have the numbers been rationalised in some way? |
I wish I could remember, I can't remember how much they were, how I got them I thought they were related to the debenture | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:49 - Mar 15 with 4846 views | Radlett_blue |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:29 - Mar 15 by WeWereZombies |
You should have received a letter from Ipswich Town plc last week; at the top of the second page there is a paragraph concerning an accounting adjustment:
'When the club was acquired by Marcus Evans Group in 2007 an inter company loan of £516,000 due from one of the ITFC group companies was capitalised by an issue to Ipswich Town PLC of shares in Club. However, the value of that investment in Club was double counted in the accounts of PLC and subsequently impaired during the year ended 30 June 2008. That has now been corrected by a prior year adjustment to increase reserves brought forward and reduce sums due to Club, which means previously reported net liabilities of £479,000 at 30 June 2019 have been restated to net assets of £37,000. There are no further consequences of this adjustment.'
Not the most straightforward explanation of a c0ck up that I have ever heard (but it does make me wonder if this has only come to light because some due diligence is being done on the Club as precursor to a takeover and the mistake has to be given an airing) and not least because the over familiiar use of 'Club' does not make it easy to discern if it is the plc or the Club part of the Marcus Evans Group or the Marcus Evans Group as a whole who are out of pocket. But on the face of it this seems to make the plc worth £516,000 more than it was at the time of the impairment during the 2007/08 accounting period. |
Shareholders in Ipswich Town plc - and quite a few of us probably are - still control just under 10% of the club, as they did after the Evans takeover. Evans recently stated - correctly - that he hadn't diluted us further by turning the debt owed by Town to him into equity. If Evans did sell Town, I'm not sure if the new owners would have to offer us the same for our shares that they paid Evans for his, but I think that they might & Evans hinted that he might try to make this a condition of a deal. If he sold Town for £20m, that would leave £2m to be divided up between the plc shareholders, so we would get a little back, but not as much as we put in. |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:58 - Mar 15 with 4818 views | PhilTWTD |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:30 - Mar 15 by itfcpaul |
I wish I could remember, I can't remember how much they were, how I got them I thought they were related to the debenture |
Not sure the share issue and the debentures were directly linked even if they were offered at the same time. |  | | |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:25 - Mar 15 with 4772 views | PhilTWTD |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:49 - Mar 15 by Radlett_blue |
Shareholders in Ipswich Town plc - and quite a few of us probably are - still control just under 10% of the club, as they did after the Evans takeover. Evans recently stated - correctly - that he hadn't diluted us further by turning the debt owed by Town to him into equity. If Evans did sell Town, I'm not sure if the new owners would have to offer us the same for our shares that they paid Evans for his, but I think that they might & Evans hinted that he might try to make this a condition of a deal. If he sold Town for £20m, that would leave £2m to be divided up between the plc shareholders, so we would get a little back, but not as much as we put in. |
From what I've heard, the 12.5 per cent will remain after the takeover. Not had that confirmed but I think it would make sense for the new owners not to do anything to irk the fans.
I doubt the PLC accounts have been looked at in relation to the takeover. | | | |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:42 - Mar 15 with 4728 views | Ryorry |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:25 - Mar 15 by PhilTWTD |
From what I've heard, the 12.5 per cent will remain after the takeover. Not had that confirmed but I think it would make sense for the new owners not to do anything to irk the fans.
I doubt the PLC accounts have been looked at in relation to the takeover. |
"the 12.5 per cent will remain after the takeover."
"will" remain ... not 'would' remain ... hmmm ...
Subconscious hint Phil?  | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:56 - Mar 15 with 4694 views | PhilTWTD |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:42 - Mar 15 by Ryorry |
"the 12.5 per cent will remain after the takeover."
"will" remain ... not 'would' remain ... hmmm ...
Subconscious hint Phil? |
Not really, just that that's the plan as I heard it. I assume it's all going to go ahead though, nothing I've heard to suggest otherwise. | | | |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:06 - Mar 15 with 4644 views | Radlett_blue |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:25 - Mar 15 by PhilTWTD |
From what I've heard, the 12.5 per cent will remain after the takeover. Not had that confirmed but I think it would make sense for the new owners not to do anything to irk the fans.
I doubt the PLC accounts have been looked at in relation to the takeover. |
Given that the finances of most football clubs, including ITFC, have changed drastically since the share issue, buying out the minority shareholders wouldn't irk me. I felt my "purchase" was really a donation & I think many others felt the same. Given that our new owner needs to be rich, I see little point in me continuing as a tiny minority shareholder with zero influence. | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:15 - Mar 15 with 4615 views | azuremerlangus |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 14:27 - Mar 15 by Ryorry |
Was it? I remember paying £400 for what is now, so I'm told 10 shares. Have the numbers been rationalised in some way? |
They were £20 each when they done the issue - but they were 25p shares. So we were essentially paying £19.75 per share as a gift to the club.
By the sound of it you bought 20 shares. | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:49 - Mar 15 with 4549 views | longtimefan |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:15 - Mar 15 by azuremerlangus |
They were £20 each when they done the issue - but they were 25p shares. So we were essentially paying £19.75 per share as a gift to the club.
By the sound of it you bought 20 shares. |
There was definitely a minimum size restriction on the purchase of shares. I can’t recall now what is was but, when it was discussed previously, I remember PJH correcting my faulty memory! | | | |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:57 - Mar 15 with 4540 views | noggin |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:15 - Mar 15 by azuremerlangus |
They were £20 each when they done the issue - but they were 25p shares. So we were essentially paying £19.75 per share as a gift to the club.
By the sound of it you bought 20 shares. |
Yep, just checked my certificate. I paid 100 quid and have 5 x 25p shares. |  |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 17:02 - Mar 15 with 4535 views | PJH |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 16:49 - Mar 15 by longtimefan |
There was definitely a minimum size restriction on the purchase of shares. I can’t recall now what is was but, when it was discussed previously, I remember PJH correcting my faulty memory! |
I thought it was a minimum spend of £200 but noggin has just said that they spent £100 so I will re-read what it says/said in the 'Own A Bit Of IT' brochure.
edit-it says offer price £20 per share with a minimum subscription for individuals of £200. [Post edited 15 Mar 2021 17:06]
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 17:04 - Mar 15 with 4530 views | WeWereZombies |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:25 - Mar 15 by PhilTWTD |
From what I've heard, the 12.5 per cent will remain after the takeover. Not had that confirmed but I think it would make sense for the new owners not to do anything to irk the fans.
I doubt the PLC accounts have been looked at in relation to the takeover. |
The plc accounts may not have been looked at if they do not form part of the takeover target but any transactions with the plc that are in the Club accounts or in other companies within the Marcus Evans Group should definitely have come under scrutiny during due diligence. So questions that have been asked as part of this process are, I suspect, behind the declaration in the letter to shareholders.
The other possibility I can think of is that it is some late in the day precautionary disclosure by Ensors and/or the Mark Andrews to prevent the general meeting in August getting bogged down in historical accounting events. | |
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| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 17:06 - Mar 15 with 4524 views | PhilTWTD |
| ITFC Shareholders and Share Values on 15:56 - Mar 15 by PhilTWTD |
Not really, just that that's the plan as I heard it. I assume it's all going to go ahead though, nothing I've heard to suggest otherwise. |
Having said what I said, I thought I ought to make a few calls and discovered things are not progressing after all. | | | |
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