| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada 16:09 - Jun 30 with 3279 views | StokieBlue |
It hit 49.6C in Lytton yesterday, a small town about 150m NE of Vancouver. That was nearly 5C higher than the historically highest temperature ever recorded in Canada and there is a chance it could hit 50C today.
Records are usually beaten by a fraction of a degree, to have them beaten by 5C is almost unheard of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57654133
Most homes there don't have AC and it seems that climate change it hitting in unpredictable and unprepared locations and it's taking it's toll on people. Unfortunately it's likely to get worse before it stabilises (assuming the world gets it's act together and it does stabilise).
SB
|  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |  |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:30 - Jul 3 with 1624 views | Deano69 |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 19:28 - Jun 30 by EdwardStone |
The point about AirCon is pertinent
Does the World have sufficient elec generating capacity or even freon gas to cope with a gigantic surge in demand for AC? |
Would have if we stop mining Bitcoin. |  |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:31 - Jul 3 with 1620 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:30 - Jul 3 by Deano69 |
Would have if we stop mining Bitcoin. |
The absurdness of Bitcoin is probably one thing that Bankster and I can agree on.
It's a poor technological solution to a problem that didn't really exist and is utterly awful for the environment.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:32 - Jul 3 with 1619 views | bluelagos |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:17 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
The issue is it's not just about people wanting things, simply to run a civilisation of the scale and complexity we have now requires a lot of resources on a continual basis. For instance, all transport and energy generation needs to be replaced with green alternatives and eventually those replacements will need to be replaced.
We couldn't feed the current world population without mass farming, we know this from historical experience where we couldn't feed a smaller population without mass farming. Population itself is an issue though, there are probably too many people for any kind of minimalist model to work.
My actual issue with Banksters posts are that he dismisses and belittles things without actually looking into them or addressing them on merit. Mining asteroids for instance would actually fit with what he wants as it would drastically reduce the impact of resource collection on the Earth itself. Instead we get one liners that are very hard to decipher.
SB |
"simply to run a civilisation of the scale and complexity we have now requires a lot of resources on a continual basis"
So from that, I would infer that stepping backwards in terms of the things we enjoy now, isn't something you would support? Maybe not you/but society as a whole?
But surely we are going to have to accept (much as we have done with CV) that things have to change and elements will be personally less likeable - given the nature of the climate emergency we are facing?
The obvious ones here are needless travel and our meat diets - both much debated so won't labour those.
In addition I see much of the current problem is that are economy is so dependent on basically buying and making rubbish. Who needs an electric toothbruth? Who needs electric car windows in their car. A hive to turn on the heating system cos we are too lazy to walk upstairs. Who needs the latest trainers / the latest fashion?
So much of our energy and resources are used up on utter nonsense - all of it fed by a capitalist model that depends on it - and spends god knows how much time and money convincing us (advertising) that we need/want this rubbish.
I've not read much on it, but I'd wager consumerism and our obsession with pointless cr*p is central to our consumption of resources / energy and the subsequent impact on our environment. |  |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:40 - Jul 3 with 1613 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:32 - Jul 3 by bluelagos |
"simply to run a civilisation of the scale and complexity we have now requires a lot of resources on a continual basis"
So from that, I would infer that stepping backwards in terms of the things we enjoy now, isn't something you would support? Maybe not you/but society as a whole?
But surely we are going to have to accept (much as we have done with CV) that things have to change and elements will be personally less likeable - given the nature of the climate emergency we are facing?
The obvious ones here are needless travel and our meat diets - both much debated so won't labour those.
In addition I see much of the current problem is that are economy is so dependent on basically buying and making rubbish. Who needs an electric toothbruth? Who needs electric car windows in their car. A hive to turn on the heating system cos we are too lazy to walk upstairs. Who needs the latest trainers / the latest fashion?
So much of our energy and resources are used up on utter nonsense - all of it fed by a capitalist model that depends on it - and spends god knows how much time and money convincing us (advertising) that we need/want this rubbish.
I've not read much on it, but I'd wager consumerism and our obsession with pointless cr*p is central to our consumption of resources / energy and the subsequent impact on our environment. |
To quickly just reply to one point:
"So from that, I would infer that stepping backwards in terms of the things we enjoy now, isn't something you would support? Maybe not you/but society as a whole?"
I'm not really talking about "things we enjoy" as in recreational. Even just to run things like large hospitals and their supply chains take huge amounts of resources if you look at it on a global level. If we want to move to electric transport and power generation for everything it's going to take huge amounts of resources - there is no way around that.
I don't think any civilisation has faired well after stopping technological development, it usually ends in that civilisation ceasing to be.
Some of your examples are interesting - for instance, something likes a Nest or Hive actually reduces resource consumption over the longer term, electric toothbrushes are more efficient so reduce extra trips to the dentist and thus resource usage so it's not quite as easy to pick what is "needed" and what isn't.
I don't disagree there is a lot of stuff we don't need but once again, I think it's more complex that many would think and I don't think regressing is a good way to go about things - things weren't very nice for the majority in the not-too-distant past.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:45 - Jul 3 with 1608 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:28 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
There are many other books and studies which go against the premise of the book you linked. You cite that book because it agrees with the position you already had. There are also lots of examples of where technology does save us - just look at the rapid development of vaccines over the last year (although you weren't keen on that either).
I don't disagree that exponential growth can't continue indefinitely and needs looking at but that doesn't reduce the need for resources. Even in non-capitalist countries without a debt based model they still use a lot of resources. Housing, infrastructure, transport, energy generation, medicine, agriculture all take resources, you can't just magic that away. Even in a society which uses less resources all the above require the same amount per unit of population unless we get better technology.
This is what I mean by simplification - things are much more complicated than the worldview you portray on here. Resources will always be needed regardless of the economic model or population size and thus if they can be gathered without environmental impact on the Earth then why do you dismiss it so readily? It should fit in nicely with what you want.
SB |
The book is not some Pol Pot diatribe against all technology and of course it has a place in any future economic/social paradigm. However I am strongly of the opinion that we should be transitioning towards what BL has referred to as minimalism rather than the techno fix of asteroid mining which to me reeks of business as usual/more of the same and is in fact largely promoted and financed by the current 'masters of stuff!' |  |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:49 - Jul 3 with 1599 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:45 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The book is not some Pol Pot diatribe against all technology and of course it has a place in any future economic/social paradigm. However I am strongly of the opinion that we should be transitioning towards what BL has referred to as minimalism rather than the techno fix of asteroid mining which to me reeks of business as usual/more of the same and is in fact largely promoted and financed by the current 'masters of stuff!' |
It won't work, minimalism for 8bn people is still an incredible number of large open mines that are required on the Earth along with probably deep sea mining for rare earths which are required for green tech.
If enough resources can be gathered from a single asteroid (and there are a near infinite number for this purpose) to prevent the need for any deep sea mining I can't see why you would be against it. It seems more an anti-technological rather than pro-environment stance to me. Have you done any reading around the subject or are you basing your views on gut feeling?
It's also just one possible solution but one that seems to have really bothered you since you continually bring it up in conversation out of nowhere.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:59 - Jul 3 with 1594 views | bluelagos |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:49 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
It won't work, minimalism for 8bn people is still an incredible number of large open mines that are required on the Earth along with probably deep sea mining for rare earths which are required for green tech.
If enough resources can be gathered from a single asteroid (and there are a near infinite number for this purpose) to prevent the need for any deep sea mining I can't see why you would be against it. It seems more an anti-technological rather than pro-environment stance to me. Have you done any reading around the subject or are you basing your views on gut feeling?
It's also just one possible solution but one that seems to have really bothered you since you continually bring it up in conversation out of nowhere.
SB |
What's the time scale for asteriod mining? Are these the ones in the asteroid belt? Do we know what type of minerals are available? | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:06 - Jul 3 with 1588 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:49 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
It won't work, minimalism for 8bn people is still an incredible number of large open mines that are required on the Earth along with probably deep sea mining for rare earths which are required for green tech.
If enough resources can be gathered from a single asteroid (and there are a near infinite number for this purpose) to prevent the need for any deep sea mining I can't see why you would be against it. It seems more an anti-technological rather than pro-environment stance to me. Have you done any reading around the subject or are you basing your views on gut feeling?
It's also just one possible solution but one that seems to have really bothered you since you continually bring it up in conversation out of nowhere.
SB |
Our over populated planet is a direct consequence of the economic model to which you subscribe. A transition towards a more sustainable future would over time address the global population in a gradual manner as it would be based on societal needs rather than artificially created individual ones.
There is no 'need' for deep sea mining if you fundamentally reset your favoured paradigm....as stated earlier the vast majority of online/mobile phone use is entirely unnecessary and we would likely all be a lot happier without it and find much more worthwhile avenues for our energy. In fact you can add most of the output from the telly box to that as well.
Circular economies, better use of existing resources, making things to last etc should be the priorities. The economic model is not "something that needs looking at" , it is the root of the problem....I have to wonder how invested in the current paradigm you are. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:13 - Jul 3 with 1580 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:59 - Jul 3 by bluelagos |
What's the time scale for asteriod mining? Are these the ones in the asteroid belt? Do we know what type of minerals are available? |
Let's clear this up, this isn't something that I am wed on being a solution, I posted about it once about 3 or 4 years ago and Bankster continually brings it up for some reason.
I've not read much on it lately but it's certainly not close (as in not the next 25 years). The premise would be that you would tow one back from the asteroid belt to probable Earth orbit and then strip mine it. As for what is available you'd need to select the asteroid for the mineral you want.
"In 1997 it was speculated that a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1.6 km (1 mi) contains more than US$20 trillion worth of industrial and precious metals.[8][62] A comparatively small M-type asteroid with a mean diameter of 1 km (0.62 mi) could contain more than two billion metric tons of iron—nickel ore,[63] or two to three times the world production of 2004.[64] The asteroid 16 Psyche is believed to contain 1.7×1019 kg of nickel—iron, which could supply the world production requirement for several million years. A small portion of the extracted material would also be precious metals."
As it stands it's not happening but it's certainly something which could happen in the future and completely eliminate the need for any mining on Earth for certain metals.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:15 - Jul 3 with 1579 views | Bent_double |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:18 - Jul 2 by StokieBlue |
Ah, are we back to this one?
Space travel is a very worthwhile endeavour for humanity through which a lot is discovered and progress is made. The fact you don't like it is pretty irrelevant. As for asteroid mining, it's entirely sensible.
If you can capture and tow back one asteroid and that is then the equivalent to all the mines on the planet for that mineral then suddenly that element is available to more people and the mines on the surface which destroy the environment and pollute the atmosphere can close.
Nice that you decided to bring these two things up again when the actual issues in the article are important. It seems like lately all your posts are directed at points scoring or contrarianism.
What's going on?
SB |
He's got a point though, hasn't he?
I don't know what's happening with asteroid mining (didn't even know it was a 'thing') - but what if the first people to do it are the Chinese or Russians, will they happily share what they have, or just hold the rest of the world to ransom whilst they power ahead?
Climate change is getting worse, and generally, as a species, we are doing very little to reverse it because governments are afraid of destroying business or ruining their economy. |  |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:21 - Jul 3 with 1577 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:06 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Our over populated planet is a direct consequence of the economic model to which you subscribe. A transition towards a more sustainable future would over time address the global population in a gradual manner as it would be based on societal needs rather than artificially created individual ones.
There is no 'need' for deep sea mining if you fundamentally reset your favoured paradigm....as stated earlier the vast majority of online/mobile phone use is entirely unnecessary and we would likely all be a lot happier without it and find much more worthwhile avenues for our energy. In fact you can add most of the output from the telly box to that as well.
Circular economies, better use of existing resources, making things to last etc should be the priorities. The economic model is not "something that needs looking at" , it is the root of the problem....I have to wonder how invested in the current paradigm you are. |
IHow is having two kids an artificially created need? How would societal needs with regards to the number of kids suddenly change? There is a fundamental requirement for the gene pool.
Nobody is saying that resource usage shouldn't be addressed, it clearly should but you take it much further than that. Your paradigm (as you've posted before) would be awful for thing like hospitals and research.
There is need for rare earth mining regardless of how often you say there isn't. If we want to move over to renewables and a non-carbon economy then they are vital as most green tech relies on them. You can't have it both ways unfortunately although it would be nice if we could. Even if we reduce the population (which would be good long term) we still need a non-carbon economy.
"I have to wonder how invested in the current paradigm you are."
Not sure there is any need for this. You're not exactly living your own paradigm posting on here and watching TV are you? Weren't you trying to book holidays abroad during the pandemic? Not entirely sure you should be calling other people out whilst doing these things and making veiled personal attacks.
I've made many posts about climate change, it's clearly something that needs to be addressed as a high priority.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 10:29]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:23 - Jul 3 with 1573 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:15 - Jul 3 by Bent_double |
He's got a point though, hasn't he?
I don't know what's happening with asteroid mining (didn't even know it was a 'thing') - but what if the first people to do it are the Chinese or Russians, will they happily share what they have, or just hold the rest of the world to ransom whilst they power ahead?
Climate change is getting worse, and generally, as a species, we are doing very little to reverse it because governments are afraid of destroying business or ruining their economy. |
I'm not sure he does have a point as the two things aren't related.
Climate change needs to be addressed as does resource usage. If we can get resources at some point in the future without pumping carbon into the atmosphere or polluting the environments near those resources it's clearly something that should be considered.
It's not going to be happening anytime soon anyway.
He's also managed to totally derail a good thread about climate modelling and climate change with his petty historical grievances.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 10:24]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:26 - Jul 3 with 1571 views | NthQldITFC |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:06 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Our over populated planet is a direct consequence of the economic model to which you subscribe. A transition towards a more sustainable future would over time address the global population in a gradual manner as it would be based on societal needs rather than artificially created individual ones.
There is no 'need' for deep sea mining if you fundamentally reset your favoured paradigm....as stated earlier the vast majority of online/mobile phone use is entirely unnecessary and we would likely all be a lot happier without it and find much more worthwhile avenues for our energy. In fact you can add most of the output from the telly box to that as well.
Circular economies, better use of existing resources, making things to last etc should be the priorities. The economic model is not "something that needs looking at" , it is the root of the problem....I have to wonder how invested in the current paradigm you are. |
There's probably a lot more common ground between you than is apparent in this discussion. Some major differences in headline policy, but headline policy means little until we drill down into the detail, at which point some specific technological fixes become more or less universally accepted sensible short-term measures, whilst some current economic behemoths can actually be shut down or made redundant easily despite the protests of the self-interested.
Personally I believe it's way too late without a massive crash in human population levels, given the seemingly inescapable trait in humans of the worship of personal wealth above all, but then again I know very little and I like to carry my beliefs as lightly as possible, so I think it's worth trying to do what we can. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:34 - Jul 3 with 1561 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:21 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
IHow is having two kids an artificially created need? How would societal needs with regards to the number of kids suddenly change? There is a fundamental requirement for the gene pool.
Nobody is saying that resource usage shouldn't be addressed, it clearly should but you take it much further than that. Your paradigm (as you've posted before) would be awful for thing like hospitals and research.
There is need for rare earth mining regardless of how often you say there isn't. If we want to move over to renewables and a non-carbon economy then they are vital as most green tech relies on them. You can't have it both ways unfortunately although it would be nice if we could. Even if we reduce the population (which would be good long term) we still need a non-carbon economy.
"I have to wonder how invested in the current paradigm you are."
Not sure there is any need for this. You're not exactly living your own paradigm posting on here and watching TV are you? Weren't you trying to book holidays abroad during the pandemic? Not entirely sure you should be calling other people out whilst doing these things and making veiled personal attacks.
I've made many posts about climate change, it's clearly something that needs to be addressed as a high priority.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 10:29]
|
In much of the 'developing world' having way more than 2 kids makes sense because one of them might just make it financially in the big bad world and look after you in your old age.
Why on Earth would a paradigm based on societal needs rather than individual ones neglect health care?
Fair to say that you are probably getting to exist in something much nearer your Utopia than mine, I shall continue to make some imperfect choices in an imperfect world but overall think I will have trodden relatively lightly upon it when my time comes. | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:40 - Jul 3 with 1559 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:23 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure he does have a point as the two things aren't related.
Climate change needs to be addressed as does resource usage. If we can get resources at some point in the future without pumping carbon into the atmosphere or polluting the environments near those resources it's clearly something that should be considered.
It's not going to be happening anytime soon anyway.
He's also managed to totally derail a good thread about climate modelling and climate change with his petty historical grievances.
SB [Post edited 3 Jul 2021 10:24]
|
The 2 things and the mindset they represent are inextricably linked...just because you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't make it not so!
I am not sure we have time for 'if....in fact we don't and we didn't some 40 or so years ago when I was deciding on my lifestyle choices!
I have derailed nothing....stop stamping your feet! | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:45 - Jul 3 with 1550 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:26 - Jul 3 by NthQldITFC |
There's probably a lot more common ground between you than is apparent in this discussion. Some major differences in headline policy, but headline policy means little until we drill down into the detail, at which point some specific technological fixes become more or less universally accepted sensible short-term measures, whilst some current economic behemoths can actually be shut down or made redundant easily despite the protests of the self-interested.
Personally I believe it's way too late without a massive crash in human population levels, given the seemingly inescapable trait in humans of the worship of personal wealth above all, but then again I know very little and I like to carry my beliefs as lightly as possible, so I think it's worth trying to do what we can. |
You are probably right!
I get the feeling Stokie takes being challenged way more personally than I do....but I have had to get used to it pretty much forever!
I still think you're a good egg Stokie, you would still be on my 5 posters to have a drink with list xx | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:52 - Jul 3 with 1540 views | StokieBlue |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:45 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You are probably right!
I get the feeling Stokie takes being challenged way more personally than I do....but I have had to get used to it pretty much forever!
I still think you're a good egg Stokie, you would still be on my 5 posters to have a drink with list xx |
I have no problem being challenged and I actually agree with a lot of your points on climate change and resource usage.
What I do find annoying is the total dismissal of any technologies which would help with both of the above. Not all technological is automatically evil and part of the problem.
I'm sure an excellent conversation would be had over a pint or 5 :).
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 11:00 - Jul 3 with 1540 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It's got a lot hotter than tht in Lytton as the whole place has burned down.
My sister lives in Vancouver and according to her the locals are loving the warmth - though it must help when you can amble down to the beach to cool down . |  |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 11:08 - Jul 3 with 1533 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:52 - Jul 3 by StokieBlue |
I have no problem being challenged and I actually agree with a lot of your points on climate change and resource usage.
What I do find annoying is the total dismissal of any technologies which would help with both of the above. Not all technological is automatically evil and part of the problem.
I'm sure an excellent conversation would be had over a pint or 5 :).
SB |
I missed the bit where I dismiss all technologies...the book I linked certainly doesn't. Anyway, enough for now...uppa the Ingerrland! | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 11:09 - Jul 3 with 1528 views | bluebud |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 09:19 - Jul 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
We need an economic and social paradigm shift away from the exponential growth debt-based consumption driven path.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12061127-techno-fix
I would happily have a 'resource off' with you Stokie if you like and certainly 99 percent of online activity globally should be for the bin.....it certainly does not represent 'progress!' |
I always find when people start using 'paradigm' it signals they are on the way out of a particular discussion....really flags up a lack of real knowledge... word salad bingp. Cringe. |  | | |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 12:02 - Jul 3 with 1499 views | bluelagos |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 10:26 - Jul 3 by NthQldITFC |
There's probably a lot more common ground between you than is apparent in this discussion. Some major differences in headline policy, but headline policy means little until we drill down into the detail, at which point some specific technological fixes become more or less universally accepted sensible short-term measures, whilst some current economic behemoths can actually be shut down or made redundant easily despite the protests of the self-interested.
Personally I believe it's way too late without a massive crash in human population levels, given the seemingly inescapable trait in humans of the worship of personal wealth above all, but then again I know very little and I like to carry my beliefs as lightly as possible, so I think it's worth trying to do what we can. |
Indeed. They are arguing about how to address climate change rather than about it's existence and/or the damage it is causing.
That is a huge step from say as recently as 5 years ago when such a thread would have attracted posters denying climate change, it's causes and it's impacts.
I'd like to think we can reduce our impact on the environment rather than reduce our population levels. There's no easy or quick way to limit populations and again, economics/capitalism thrives on growing markets (people) rather than shrinking ones. | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 17:04 - Jul 3 with 1430 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 11:09 - Jul 3 by bluebud |
I always find when people start using 'paradigm' it signals they are on the way out of a particular discussion....really flags up a lack of real knowledge... word salad bingp. Cringe. |
Thanks for your contribution! | |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 21:22 - Jul 9 with 1314 views | StokieBlue |
So a bit more on this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57751918
Essentially those conditions don't happen without global warming and the heatwave would have been "virtually impossible" (1 in 1000 year event).
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 21:35 - Jul 9 with 1289 views | DanTheMan |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 12:02 - Jul 3 by bluelagos |
Indeed. They are arguing about how to address climate change rather than about it's existence and/or the damage it is causing.
That is a huge step from say as recently as 5 years ago when such a thread would have attracted posters denying climate change, it's causes and it's impacts.
I'd like to think we can reduce our impact on the environment rather than reduce our population levels. There's no easy or quick way to limit populations and again, economics/capitalism thrives on growing markets (people) rather than shrinking ones. |
It is nice for once, although we've still not progressed beyond the "but China" points a few of them are clinging on to.
I distinctly remember someone on here saying it was a ridiculous notion that human beings could even influence the climate globally. |  |
| |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 23:26 - Jul 9 with 1254 views | jeera |
| Crazy temperatures hitting Canada on 21:35 - Jul 9 by DanTheMan |
It is nice for once, although we've still not progressed beyond the "but China" points a few of them are clinging on to.
I distinctly remember someone on here saying it was a ridiculous notion that human beings could even influence the climate globally. |
Have people forgotten already about the ozone layer and the panic over reducing CFCs? |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
