| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:48 - Jul 16 with 403 views | noggin |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:34 - Jul 16 by Darth_Koont |
Ullaa is always a good source of raw, undiluted Telegraph views.
He’s a small c that wants to be a bigger c. |
c for canary? |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:49 - Jul 16 with 402 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:41 - Jul 16 by DanTheMan |
I mean, we have though, until it's got to the verge of being too late. It's not like we've not known.
Per capita, China was way lower than a lot of other countries (as of 2018). The reason they pump out a lot of emissions is because there is a lot of them. Obviously them building additional coal plants isn't at all good but they were still well below USA, Russia, Canada, Australia etc. |
Fair point to bring per capita into it. Your point goes back to what I was saying about it being a less developed country in wealth terms and its indeed important for us in the west to remember that. None of that changes it's global impact though. |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:51 - Jul 16 with 394 views | DanTheMan |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:49 - Jul 16 by giant_stow |
Fair point to bring per capita into it. Your point goes back to what I was saying about it being a less developed country in wealth terms and its indeed important for us in the west to remember that. None of that changes it's global impact though. |
Of course not but it's a bit unfair of us to say "you pump out too much" whilst we pump out more per person. By we I don't mean the UK by the way, as we are actually lower using the same methodology.
But everyone, including China has a part to play, so focussing just on them is pointless. And that's why people get frustrated with talking about them because it's mostly just used in a defeatist way of "well we can't do anything because of China so lets not bother". |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:58 - Jul 16 with 378 views | giant_stow |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:51 - Jul 16 by DanTheMan |
Of course not but it's a bit unfair of us to say "you pump out too much" whilst we pump out more per person. By we I don't mean the UK by the way, as we are actually lower using the same methodology.
But everyone, including China has a part to play, so focussing just on them is pointless. And that's why people get frustrated with talking about them because it's mostly just used in a defeatist way of "well we can't do anything because of China so lets not bother". |
I think you highlight an important point in the dangers of thinking "there's no point in trying... the problem’s too huge, or China won't budge”.
To go down that defeatist road would probably result in the end of humanity, not from climate trouble alone, but also societal breakdown as each disaster gets worse. We have to stay positive and try, even if our efforts ultimately fail. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 14:11 - Jul 16 with 338 views | chicoazul |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 12:06 - Jul 16 by Clapham_Junction |
I'd say it's something like an authoritarian market economy. Government is hands off at the low level, but intervenes with big companies and the stock market, largely for political purposes.
Re Ulla's point, what's happening in China is at least partially our problem because we buy so much of our stuff from there. The UK has outsourced more of its emissions (largely from manufacturing) than any other major country. Worth remembering this whenever you hear people crowing about how well the UK has done in reducing emissions. |
The Party - no point calling it the government - is most certainly NOT hands off at any level. |  |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 14:15 - Jul 16 with 335 views | chicoazul |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 11:30 - Jul 16 by XYZ |
We've had 20 + years of this "But, China" whilst the capitalist West carries on regardless. |
What does this even mean. Why do people always accuse me and others of “but China” whenever these arguments arise and then accuse others of whatabouterry on other topics. Who can possibly know. China is probably the greatest threat to the climate crisis and human rights in the world but the Party will always find bootlickers prepared to make excuses equivocate and turn the argument back towards the West. | |
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| Climate change - is it too late? on 14:22 - Jul 16 with 310 views | DanTheMan |
| Climate change - is it too late? on 14:15 - Jul 16 by chicoazul |
What does this even mean. Why do people always accuse me and others of “but China” whenever these arguments arise and then accuse others of whatabouterry on other topics. Who can possibly know. China is probably the greatest threat to the climate crisis and human rights in the world but the Party will always find bootlickers prepared to make excuses equivocate and turn the argument back towards the West. |
I've already basically responded to this point but to go over it again.
1. Because it's usually used to say that we shouldn't bother doing anything because of China. I guess to some people pretending it's all inevitable so they don't have to change the way they live is easier to deal with, but it's missing the point that it's not just them that needs to change.
2. It usually misses out the context of them having a population of well over 1 billion people. Per capita their emissions are lower than a lot of other nations, both Western (such as the U.S, Australia, Canada and just other not exactly "western" nations such as Japan, Russia and South Korea. It's not that they aren't pumping out a lot of these gases, they obviously are, but there are also a hell of a lot of them so it's not overly surprising. Per person they are still half the amount of the U.S.
They deserve criticism for continuing to build new coal plants and should be looking to decrease, not increase, their current emission levels but just focussing on them gets us absolutely nowhere. | |
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