| Very tough league games ahead 12:31 - Oct 27 with 4352 views | TooManyCooks |
Next 4 league games are all against top 6 opposition, no idea how many points we can gather from those. If it was offered, I think I'd happily take 6 points as it stands now (whilst hoping for more). Also, pre league 1, it felt like we used to do better against the top sides and be disappointing against the dross, not sure we can even try and measure that dynamic now though, given the current team isn't the finished article yet.
One thing for certain, this board is going to be a rollercoaster through November! lol
EDIT: I'm not going to change the text above, but given that I have been made aware that we face 5 of the next 6 games against top 6 teams, I'm going to say I'd happy with 8/9 points from those fixtures, i'll stick with my 6 points from 4 though
[Post edited 27 Oct 2021 14:02]
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| Very tough league games ahead on 17:27 - Oct 27 with 1094 views | DavoIPB |
| Very tough league games ahead on 13:55 - Oct 27 by TooManyCooks |
Just looked at the next 4, in isolation (as they are top 6 teams currently) and I don't subscribe to the "not good in the grand scheme of things" view, these clubs are positioned according to their performances and have reached them on merit. We are not Chelsea, or Liverpool, we are a new squad in League 1 and don't deserve to be labelled as anything other and we certainly don't have the right to label other teams as "less rubbish" simply because we were a good club 45/50 years ago, times change and we are just another name battling it out in the third tier of English football, we have a history, but it's not very recent history I'm afraid, we have been a club on the decline and need to earn our bragging rights again.
With regard to promotion aspirations, we are 4 points off the playoffs with 32 games remaining, so I'm certainly not feeling anything other than positive after our recent improved form and optimistic of the remainder of the season. There will be bumps in the road, but we have a chance.
I suspect if you offered any manager of a club in our position, in any league in the world, the opportunity of taking 6 points from the next 4 games against top 6 sides, I suspect they'd bite your hand off. |
Agreed, most sensible comment on here so far. Think 6 points from next 4 would be a good achievement.
Defence still fragile and we still don't actually create many chances. We are just very good at taking them. | | | |
| Very tough league games ahead on 17:28 - Oct 27 with 1091 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Very tough league games ahead on 15:53 - Oct 27 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're certainly making it difficult. You can't EXPECT anything in life.
EXPECTING to roll over teams in this division is probably partly why we've thrown away so many points from winning positions. You've got to earn it, not expect it, regardless of how good you think you are. |
It's not about expecting, it's about what we should be doing. When you acquire the squad we have - a team full of proven top L1 players/Championship players you should be promoted. I'm not undermining the other teams in this division but if you were to ask 100 managers which squad they'd want to take over in this division, 90%+ would say ours. If you were to ask them to pick a front 4 from the division, again most would pick 3/4 players on our books I would think.
Of course you have to earn it, and we haven't so far, hence our position. And that is a failing ultimately. We seem to have turned a corner, hopefully we have and as it happens I actually think we will go up.
I don't really take the comments from Johnson/Ashton with too much seriousness. Behind closed doors they will think we should be getting promoted. Standards have been raised throughout the club, that's a great thing and long overdue. I think some fans need to follow. | | | |
| Very tough league games ahead on 17:54 - Oct 27 with 1059 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Very tough league games ahead on 17:28 - Oct 27 by tractorboy1978 |
It's not about expecting, it's about what we should be doing. When you acquire the squad we have - a team full of proven top L1 players/Championship players you should be promoted. I'm not undermining the other teams in this division but if you were to ask 100 managers which squad they'd want to take over in this division, 90%+ would say ours. If you were to ask them to pick a front 4 from the division, again most would pick 3/4 players on our books I would think.
Of course you have to earn it, and we haven't so far, hence our position. And that is a failing ultimately. We seem to have turned a corner, hopefully we have and as it happens I actually think we will go up.
I don't really take the comments from Johnson/Ashton with too much seriousness. Behind closed doors they will think we should be getting promoted. Standards have been raised throughout the club, that's a great thing and long overdue. I think some fans need to follow. |
They will also know it might take a bit of time for those players to gel, no matter how good they are. Hence the 'looking at it longer term' comments. Football, after all, is a team game.
Fans are following. But like the owners, sensible fans realise it's not as simple as 'buy all the best players then get promoted immediately.' It's all very well being bullish but personally I think 'moving in the right direction after moving in the wrong direction for so long' is enough for me. That's not lacking ambition, that's being realistic. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 09:45 - Oct 28 with 972 views | TooManyCooks |
| Very tough league games ahead on 17:54 - Oct 27 by The_Flashing_Smile |
They will also know it might take a bit of time for those players to gel, no matter how good they are. Hence the 'looking at it longer term' comments. Football, after all, is a team game.
Fans are following. But like the owners, sensible fans realise it's not as simple as 'buy all the best players then get promoted immediately.' It's all very well being bullish but personally I think 'moving in the right direction after moving in the wrong direction for so long' is enough for me. That's not lacking ambition, that's being realistic. |
I can recall several pieces from Phil, pre or post match interviews, maybe both, where opposition managers have stated that they are envious of the team we have, but have been quick to point out the herculean task of trying to bed-in 19 new players, they were most definitely not envious in that respect. | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 09:53 - Oct 28 with 965 views | TooManyCooks |
| Very tough league games ahead on 17:27 - Oct 27 by DavoIPB |
Agreed, most sensible comment on here so far. Think 6 points from next 4 would be a good achievement.
Defence still fragile and we still don't actually create many chances. We are just very good at taking them. |
Thank you for the kind words.
I assumed this was the default, unspoken (as it was so obvious) view for most people, we were good years ago, suffered under ME and now have a ray of light at the end of the tunnel, it just requires a little more patience and support to develop into its full potential.
I can't understand the people that call for Cook to be sacked and insist that anything other than promotion this season is a failure. These are the same group that were suggesting, 2 or 3 games ago, that automatic promotion was beyond us and possibly even the playoffs, its just mental talk. I have tried to put myself in their shoes, but for the life of me, I just can't figure out how it makes any sense to them. | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:04 - Oct 28 with 953 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Very tough league games ahead on 09:53 - Oct 28 by TooManyCooks |
Thank you for the kind words.
I assumed this was the default, unspoken (as it was so obvious) view for most people, we were good years ago, suffered under ME and now have a ray of light at the end of the tunnel, it just requires a little more patience and support to develop into its full potential.
I can't understand the people that call for Cook to be sacked and insist that anything other than promotion this season is a failure. These are the same group that were suggesting, 2 or 3 games ago, that automatic promotion was beyond us and possibly even the playoffs, its just mental talk. I have tried to put myself in their shoes, but for the life of me, I just can't figure out how it makes any sense to them. |
I am not remotely calling for Cook to be sacked and never have. I personally think he is the man to take us forwards - I like the brand of football he plays, I like his passion for the game and I like him having high standards. And it's those high standards which are the reason he will consider it a failure himself if we don't get promoted.
Ultimately whatever Ashton/Johnson/any of the owners say publicly, promotion is absolutely what they want this season. We haven't signed Walton, Bonne, Celina, Coulson on loan to 'build' for next season. The likes of Chaplin, Edmundson, Morsy haven't dropped down in their prime years to play two seasons of L1 football. We've put serious investment into this squad and serious investment into making ourselves a top end Championship club off the pitch. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 10:10]
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:12 - Oct 28 with 945 views | Herbivore |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:04 - Oct 28 by tractorboy1978 |
I am not remotely calling for Cook to be sacked and never have. I personally think he is the man to take us forwards - I like the brand of football he plays, I like his passion for the game and I like him having high standards. And it's those high standards which are the reason he will consider it a failure himself if we don't get promoted.
Ultimately whatever Ashton/Johnson/any of the owners say publicly, promotion is absolutely what they want this season. We haven't signed Walton, Bonne, Celina, Coulson on loan to 'build' for next season. The likes of Chaplin, Edmundson, Morsy haven't dropped down in their prime years to play two seasons of L1 football. We've put serious investment into this squad and serious investment into making ourselves a top end Championship club off the pitch. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 10:10]
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The only people who don't think missing out on promotion this year would be a failure are a particular group of fans on here. Cook will see it as a failure, the players will see it as a failure, the owners will see it as a failure, sensible fans (apparently this is the term used for fans who share one's own view) will see it as a failure. It's nonsense to pretend otherwise, let alone to claim that not getting promotion being seen as a failure is a "ludicrous" suggestion. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 10:17]
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:33 - Oct 28 with 921 views | TooManyCooks |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:04 - Oct 28 by tractorboy1978 |
I am not remotely calling for Cook to be sacked and never have. I personally think he is the man to take us forwards - I like the brand of football he plays, I like his passion for the game and I like him having high standards. And it's those high standards which are the reason he will consider it a failure himself if we don't get promoted.
Ultimately whatever Ashton/Johnson/any of the owners say publicly, promotion is absolutely what they want this season. We haven't signed Walton, Bonne, Celina, Coulson on loan to 'build' for next season. The likes of Chaplin, Edmundson, Morsy haven't dropped down in their prime years to play two seasons of L1 football. We've put serious investment into this squad and serious investment into making ourselves a top end Championship club off the pitch. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 10:10]
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I wasn't meaning to direct my last response at anybody in particular, apologies if it felt it was, I was just putting my thoughts straight down into words, with nobody in mind.
All of us to a man (or woman) want to be promoted this season, owners, players, manager, supporters etc. What none of us knew, including all the aforementioned, was whether this new squad would be able to "click" and perform from the off, or take time to gel, though lets not kid ourselves, 99% of owners/managers/fans already know the answer deep down, but they keep their fingers crossed for the former.
For me, it's been a pleasure being able to watch the team through the curve, from a really confused (as expected) start of the season, to a side forming better relationships and understanding between players (both on and off the pitch judging by the camaraderie on show) and translating that to points on the board. The manager and the players clearly have a very good bond, trust is developing nicely within the group and along with it accountability, it's all heading where you would want it to, I'm seeing nothing but positives.
The reality is, given the position the club was in, on and off pitch and the huge transformation that is underway, it would be a miracle to see promotion in the first season IMO and to expect it, or see not achieving that as a failure, is bizarre to say the least.
The players you mention and others known to this league, I'm certain, are under no illusion of what it is to play in League 1 and I don't imagine any of them would have been thinking promotion was a given, at any point. | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:34 - Oct 28 with 917 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Very tough league games ahead on 09:45 - Oct 28 by TooManyCooks |
I can recall several pieces from Phil, pre or post match interviews, maybe both, where opposition managers have stated that they are envious of the team we have, but have been quick to point out the herculean task of trying to bed-in 19 new players, they were most definitely not envious in that respect. |
Not seen that myself but they would be entirely reasonable comments. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:38 - Oct 28 with 909 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:12 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
The only people who don't think missing out on promotion this year would be a failure are a particular group of fans on here. Cook will see it as a failure, the players will see it as a failure, the owners will see it as a failure, sensible fans (apparently this is the term used for fans who share one's own view) will see it as a failure. It's nonsense to pretend otherwise, let alone to claim that not getting promotion being seen as a failure is a "ludicrous" suggestion. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 10:17]
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Regardless of who wants what, sensible fans appreciate it might not happen straight away. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:41 - Oct 28 with 904 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:04 - Oct 28 by tractorboy1978 |
I am not remotely calling for Cook to be sacked and never have. I personally think he is the man to take us forwards - I like the brand of football he plays, I like his passion for the game and I like him having high standards. And it's those high standards which are the reason he will consider it a failure himself if we don't get promoted.
Ultimately whatever Ashton/Johnson/any of the owners say publicly, promotion is absolutely what they want this season. We haven't signed Walton, Bonne, Celina, Coulson on loan to 'build' for next season. The likes of Chaplin, Edmundson, Morsy haven't dropped down in their prime years to play two seasons of L1 football. We've put serious investment into this squad and serious investment into making ourselves a top end Championship club off the pitch. [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 10:10]
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No-one is denying they want promotion this season. No-one is denying they've bought players to try and get promotion this season. You're building straw men! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:44 - Oct 28 with 896 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:41 - Oct 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No-one is denying they want promotion this season. No-one is denying they've bought players to try and get promotion this season. You're building straw men! |
I'm not at all - the point under debate was 'is not getting promoted a failure'. My answer is yes and all at the club would see it as such regardless of what is said publicly. | | | |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:50 - Oct 28 with 888 views | Herbivore |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:33 - Oct 28 by TooManyCooks |
I wasn't meaning to direct my last response at anybody in particular, apologies if it felt it was, I was just putting my thoughts straight down into words, with nobody in mind.
All of us to a man (or woman) want to be promoted this season, owners, players, manager, supporters etc. What none of us knew, including all the aforementioned, was whether this new squad would be able to "click" and perform from the off, or take time to gel, though lets not kid ourselves, 99% of owners/managers/fans already know the answer deep down, but they keep their fingers crossed for the former.
For me, it's been a pleasure being able to watch the team through the curve, from a really confused (as expected) start of the season, to a side forming better relationships and understanding between players (both on and off the pitch judging by the camaraderie on show) and translating that to points on the board. The manager and the players clearly have a very good bond, trust is developing nicely within the group and along with it accountability, it's all heading where you would want it to, I'm seeing nothing but positives.
The reality is, given the position the club was in, on and off pitch and the huge transformation that is underway, it would be a miracle to see promotion in the first season IMO and to expect it, or see not achieving that as a failure, is bizarre to say the least.
The players you mention and others known to this league, I'm certain, are under no illusion of what it is to play in League 1 and I don't imagine any of them would have been thinking promotion was a given, at any point. |
Promotion this season would be a miracle? Jesus wept.
Not getting promotion this season would be seen as a failure and rightly so. Whether there would be mitigation enough to give Cook a stab at it next season is another matter, but not going up this season would represent a failure to meet expectations. That's not "bizarre" or "ludicrous" in the slightest. | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 10:58 - Oct 28 with 880 views | TooManyCooks |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:50 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
Promotion this season would be a miracle? Jesus wept.
Not getting promotion this season would be seen as a failure and rightly so. Whether there would be mitigation enough to give Cook a stab at it next season is another matter, but not going up this season would represent a failure to meet expectations. That's not "bizarre" or "ludicrous" in the slightest. |
We have clearly reached a deadlock haven't we, you cannot appreciate how not getting promoted this season isn't a failure and I cannot appreciate your position to the opposite, we are not going to find any common ground on this one it seems.
That's life, differing opinions my friend, the common ground we do have, is that we'd both like to see us get promoted this season  | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 11:00 - Oct 28 with 871 views | Herbivore |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:58 - Oct 28 by TooManyCooks |
We have clearly reached a deadlock haven't we, you cannot appreciate how not getting promoted this season isn't a failure and I cannot appreciate your position to the opposite, we are not going to find any common ground on this one it seems.
That's life, differing opinions my friend, the common ground we do have, is that we'd both like to see us get promoted this season |
Indeed, and you would find God should it happen whereas I'd probably crack open some fizz and toast a job well done. Enjoy your day. | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 11:05 - Oct 28 with 862 views | TooManyCooks |
| Very tough league games ahead on 11:00 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
Indeed, and you would find God should it happen whereas I'd probably crack open some fizz and toast a job well done. Enjoy your day. |
If God made himself known to me, I'd like it to be for something greater than an ITFC promotion, though to be fair, given the amount of times in the past (as a much younger man) I've asked for assistance when curled up round the toilet chucking my guts up, this would be a definite improvement in circumstance  | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 12:01 - Oct 28 with 828 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:44 - Oct 28 by tractorboy1978 |
I'm not at all - the point under debate was 'is not getting promoted a failure'. My answer is yes and all at the club would see it as such regardless of what is said publicly. |
Ok, well it depends how you define failure. Yes it would be a failure of our immediate objective but no it wouldn't be a failure of the overall project, and for me it wouldn't necessarily mean Cook gets the boot either. He might do, but I think some see it as if we don't go up he's gone, regardless of the circumstances or any improvements made. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 12:06 - Oct 28 with 816 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Very tough league games ahead on 10:50 - Oct 28 by Herbivore |
Promotion this season would be a miracle? Jesus wept.
Not getting promotion this season would be seen as a failure and rightly so. Whether there would be mitigation enough to give Cook a stab at it next season is another matter, but not going up this season would represent a failure to meet expectations. That's not "bizarre" or "ludicrous" in the slightest. |
"Whether there would be mitigation enough to give Cook a stab at it next season is another matter."
This is all I've been arguing all along. I was under the impression you thought no promotion = Cook sacked. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 13:49 - Nov 29 with 628 views | TooManyCooks |
6 games later............7 points gained from the 6 games
Very much in line with expectation, at the time of posting we were an improving side, but still far from the finished article and with a series of extremely hard games against teams who have proven to be consistently better than us over the season to that point, which is hardly surprising given the "newness" of our setup and our position in the curve.
I knew the usual group would be calling for the managers head and declaring the whole club a failure, because they're the same unrealistic group that downvoted my points prediction and somehow expected us to win every game against the best performing teams in the league.
We go again. | |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 17:06 - Nov 29 with 585 views | N2_Blue |
We need 10-12 points minimum from next 18, preferably more
Even 10 points is probably no good if we lose to Wigan and Sunderland
Cook has one chance to save his job now i think, he needs a season defining December.
Sunderland and Wycombe are at home have to be wins really, I could accept Wigan as a loss or defeat if we win them but we need to avoid defeat preferably
Charlton Athletic A WIN
Wigan Athletic A LOSE
Sunderland H WIN
Gillingham A DRAW
Wycombe Wanderers H WIN
Lincoln City H WIN
13/18
Do this and season could be back on. Do I think we will do this or even get close...not a chance unfortunately. |  |
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| Very tough league games ahead on 20:14 - Nov 29 with 537 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Very tough league games ahead on 17:06 - Nov 29 by N2_Blue |
We need 10-12 points minimum from next 18, preferably more
Even 10 points is probably no good if we lose to Wigan and Sunderland
Cook has one chance to save his job now i think, he needs a season defining December.
Sunderland and Wycombe are at home have to be wins really, I could accept Wigan as a loss or defeat if we win them but we need to avoid defeat preferably
Charlton Athletic A WIN
Wigan Athletic A LOSE
Sunderland H WIN
Gillingham A DRAW
Wycombe Wanderers H WIN
Lincoln City H WIN
13/18
Do this and season could be back on. Do I think we will do this or even get close...not a chance unfortunately. |
Charlton Athletic A DRAW
Wigan Athletic A LOSE
Sunderland H LOSE
Gillingham A DRAW
Wycombe Wanderers H DRAW
Lincoln City H WIN
6/18 - and I think that is probably Cook done for. |  | | |
| Very tough league games ahead on 20:21 - Nov 29 with 523 views | unstableblue |
| Very tough league games ahead on 20:14 - Nov 29 by ElderGrizzly |
Charlton Athletic A DRAW
Wigan Athletic A LOSE
Sunderland H LOSE
Gillingham A DRAW
Wycombe Wanderers H DRAW
Lincoln City H WIN
6/18 - and I think that is probably Cook done for. |
Charlton Athletic A DRAW
Wigan Athletic A LOSE
Sunderland H WIN
Gillingham A WIN
Wycombe Wanderers H DRAW
Lincoln City H WIN
11/18... 1.8 PPG, not good enough, but would be a better scenario, and not unrealistic. We're better than Sunderland, its nerves on the big occasion that worry me |  |
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