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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations 10:16 - Feb 21 with 2888 viewsArnoldMoorhen

As a collective "Darwin Award" level act of self-harm and stupidity.

Crypto currencies annually consume as much energy as Norway.

Leaving aside whether they are fascinating technologies, or just the latest bubbling, tax avoiding, organised crime facilitating, pyramid schemes, they are an unforgivable squandering of resources and creators of pollution.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/feb/18/bitcoin-miners-revive-fossil-
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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:37 - Feb 21 with 2161 viewsmonytowbray

The concept of blockchain currency is interesting and the foundations of alternatives to the current financial system are worthwhile ideas, but as with any new tech with money to be made it’s soon exploited by bad faith actors and greed.

Humans do this sadly, we invent stuff and we use it for evil over good. We discovered nuclear energy and used that to floor 2 Japanese cities.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:41 - Feb 21 with 2139 viewscaptainfantastic

How much energy does the global banking sector use? Think of all the people driving to their day jobs in banks, vans driving cash around etc. Which would be redundant if it went completely digital

Tax avoidance - Bitcoin is completely traceable. Far less crime that Fiat system

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:46 - Feb 21 with 2122 viewsGuthrum

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:41 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

How much energy does the global banking sector use? Think of all the people driving to their day jobs in banks, vans driving cash around etc. Which would be redundant if it went completely digital

Tax avoidance - Bitcoin is completely traceable. Far less crime that Fiat system


That's the problem. Bitcoin isn't traceable because it's been deliberately set up not to be. It's all encrypted, anonymous wallets and there is no regulatory body with oversight.

As bad as the Swiss: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/feb/20/credit-suisse-secrets-leak-unmasks-
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 10:52]

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:47 - Feb 21 with 2113 viewsArnoldMoorhen

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:37 - Feb 21 by monytowbray

The concept of blockchain currency is interesting and the foundations of alternatives to the current financial system are worthwhile ideas, but as with any new tech with money to be made it’s soon exploited by bad faith actors and greed.

Humans do this sadly, we invent stuff and we use it for evil over good. We discovered nuclear energy and used that to floor 2 Japanese cities.


The burning of vast quantities of electricity were implicit in crypto-currencies since their inception.
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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:49 - Feb 21 with 2096 viewsArnoldMoorhen

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:41 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

How much energy does the global banking sector use? Think of all the people driving to their day jobs in banks, vans driving cash around etc. Which would be redundant if it went completely digital

Tax avoidance - Bitcoin is completely traceable. Far less crime that Fiat system


Every single time a crpto "investor" has sold for more than they bought, and made more profit than their annual allowance, and not declared it for tax, a crime has been committed.

Plus, Dark Web.
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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:54 - Feb 21 with 2055 viewscaptainfantastic

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:46 - Feb 21 by Guthrum

That's the problem. Bitcoin isn't traceable because it's been deliberately set up not to be. It's all encrypted, anonymous wallets and there is no regulatory body with oversight.

As bad as the Swiss: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/feb/20/credit-suisse-secrets-leak-unmasks-
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 10:52]


Bitcoin is traceable, all transactions are recorded on the blockchain and can be seen who bought it initially by using data from the exchanges.

It's a move away from the centralized bankers who launder money for drug cartels...

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:56 - Feb 21 with 2037 viewscaptainfantastic

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:49 - Feb 21 by ArnoldMoorhen

Every single time a crpto "investor" has sold for more than they bought, and made more profit than their annual allowance, and not declared it for tax, a crime has been committed.

Plus, Dark Web.


That's just the same as anyone who buys/sells property or shares. Its up to them to report it to tax authorities.

It's all recorded so if they're not paying their taxes it'll catch up with them one day.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:57 - Feb 21 with 2025 viewsmonytowbray

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:47 - Feb 21 by ArnoldMoorhen

The burning of vast quantities of electricity were implicit in crypto-currencies since their inception.


Yeah but any time I point out the carbon footprint of meat you get a lot of whatteraboutery. The banks invest endless money in fossil fuels. The system in place we have isn’t any better, it’s the same one of magic tokens having more value than both the essentials and commodities you use the tokens to get and it breeds inequality.

FTR I have no crypto to my name nor have I ever.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:00 - Feb 21 with 2018 viewsGuthrum

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:54 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

Bitcoin is traceable, all transactions are recorded on the blockchain and can be seen who bought it initially by using data from the exchanges.

It's a move away from the centralized bankers who launder money for drug cartels...


Individual transactions are, but not who owns the wallets. Yes, it is a move away - the drug cartels can launder their own money instead.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:00 - Feb 21 with 2020 viewsDanTheMan

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:41 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

How much energy does the global banking sector use? Think of all the people driving to their day jobs in banks, vans driving cash around etc. Which would be redundant if it went completely digital

Tax avoidance - Bitcoin is completely traceable. Far less crime that Fiat system


"How much energy does the global banking sector use"

Per transaction? Far less and it's far faster.

"Think of all the people driving to their day jobs in banks, vans driving cash around etc."

You think these systems run completely autonomously? People still need to look after them. I doubt driving cash about is anywhere near as bad as running ten of thousands of GPUs for what is fairly pointless work.

"Far less crime that Fiat system"

Just because it's traceable doesn't mean there's no crime. There has been LOADS of crime, the amount of scams is ridiculous and the lack of regulation means people usually get away with it. Pump and dumps are unbelievably rife because almost none of the coins are made for actual day to day usage, they are built for speculative purposes.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:03 - Feb 21 with 1993 viewsmonytowbray

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 10:49 - Feb 21 by ArnoldMoorhen

Every single time a crpto "investor" has sold for more than they bought, and made more profit than their annual allowance, and not declared it for tax, a crime has been committed.

Plus, Dark Web.


The Dark Web is also about system alternatives though and much more in line with what the original innovators of the internet meant for it to be. There are wider discussions around data privacy and accountability to truth the mainstream web got (and still gets) incredibly wrong.

Although for clarity I just remembered I have had crypto once, alas for 5 minutes to spend on the dark web on magic mushrooms.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 11:05]

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:12 - Feb 21 with 1939 viewsleitrimblue

I keep being sent emails asking me to look at a quite interesting project by someone with the email address of bitcoin cash. He's clearly invested a lot of time and money on it already but knowing nothing of bitcoin the address just puts me off. Anyone got any advice?
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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:16 - Feb 21 with 1923 viewscaptainfantastic

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:00 - Feb 21 by DanTheMan

"How much energy does the global banking sector use"

Per transaction? Far less and it's far faster.

"Think of all the people driving to their day jobs in banks, vans driving cash around etc."

You think these systems run completely autonomously? People still need to look after them. I doubt driving cash about is anywhere near as bad as running ten of thousands of GPUs for what is fairly pointless work.

"Far less crime that Fiat system"

Just because it's traceable doesn't mean there's no crime. There has been LOADS of crime, the amount of scams is ridiculous and the lack of regulation means people usually get away with it. Pump and dumps are unbelievably rife because almost none of the coins are made for actual day to day usage, they are built for speculative purposes.


Dan,

You are correct.

In 1996, the internet was clunky, slow and expensive. It had many haters.

Crypto adoption is faster than that of the internet, the best brains from all over the world are going into it.

Go figure

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:33 - Feb 21 with 1860 viewsEwan_Oozami

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:16 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

Dan,

You are correct.

In 1996, the internet was clunky, slow and expensive. It had many haters.

Crypto adoption is faster than that of the internet, the best brains from all over the world are going into it.

Go figure


Crypto and NFTs are currently quite small Ponzi schemes currently made use of by already fairly rich people who are hoping to be at the top of whatever pyramids they start so that if those pyramids get bigger, they can reap all the rewards, with the various middlemen brokers skimming off some of the cream for themselves - very very rarely, if at all, will it be the "little man" who gains anything out of these schemes.

Just one small problem; sell their houses to who, Ben? Fcking Aquaman?
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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:37 - Feb 21 with 1836 viewsDanTheMan

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:16 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

Dan,

You are correct.

In 1996, the internet was clunky, slow and expensive. It had many haters.

Crypto adoption is faster than that of the internet, the best brains from all over the world are going into it.

Go figure


What? I'm not talking about 1996 internet I'm talking about now.

Anything that uses proof of work is inherently slow and will not perform, there is no viable way to improve this as the ledger gets bigger because that's how it's literally designed to work.

Proof of stake just ends up with the exact same problem that Bitcoin was originally trying to solve because if you have the most power then you get control of the platform. And it won't be the average person with the most power, it will be people with serious funding, which has already happened with things like Ethereum.

I don't even know how you'd quantify crypto adoption being faster than the internet. What is a user of the internet vs a user of crypto? I've bought some crypto currency, am I a user now? And that still doesn't actually tell us anything.

I hear these vacuous arguments all the time and yet nobody has ever been able to really tell me what problems crypto is solving that could not be solved without blockchain.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 11:48]

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:39 - Feb 21 with 1813 viewsmonytowbray

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:33 - Feb 21 by Ewan_Oozami

Crypto and NFTs are currently quite small Ponzi schemes currently made use of by already fairly rich people who are hoping to be at the top of whatever pyramids they start so that if those pyramids get bigger, they can reap all the rewards, with the various middlemen brokers skimming off some of the cream for themselves - very very rarely, if at all, will it be the "little man" who gains anything out of these schemes.


For small traders it's the same as day trading and has higher risks vs being a hedge fund manager with too much to fail.

I think the problem with Bitcoin ironically is it's ended up looking like (and being exploited by) the exact people who ensure the banking system only works for a select powerful few.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:42 - Feb 21 with 1797 viewsmonytowbray

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:37 - Feb 21 by DanTheMan

What? I'm not talking about 1996 internet I'm talking about now.

Anything that uses proof of work is inherently slow and will not perform, there is no viable way to improve this as the ledger gets bigger because that's how it's literally designed to work.

Proof of stake just ends up with the exact same problem that Bitcoin was originally trying to solve because if you have the most power then you get control of the platform. And it won't be the average person with the most power, it will be people with serious funding, which has already happened with things like Ethereum.

I don't even know how you'd quantify crypto adoption being faster than the internet. What is a user of the internet vs a user of crypto? I've bought some crypto currency, am I a user now? And that still doesn't actually tell us anything.

I hear these vacuous arguments all the time and yet nobody has ever been able to really tell me what problems crypto is solving that could not be solved without blockchain.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 11:48]


I know a lot of people who have some crypto because they are gambling fans, tech nerds or generally curious.

I do wonder what % of the market is made up of this demographic and how that translates in terms of BTC performance and how those pro-crypto could be reading the hype wrong.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:53 - Feb 21 with 1778 viewsSteve_M

There is also this which may slowly allow people to realise why state-backed banks are not an inherent evil of the financial system:


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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:55 - Feb 21 with 1755 viewsDanTheMan

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:42 - Feb 21 by monytowbray

I know a lot of people who have some crypto because they are gambling fans, tech nerds or generally curious.

I do wonder what % of the market is made up of this demographic and how that translates in terms of BTC performance and how those pro-crypto could be reading the hype wrong.


Amusingly most of the developers I know stay well away with crypto and the ones who do use it do it solely to make money and nothing else. They don't see any real value in it, just it's fairly simple to trade compared to real markets. Once upon a time I was curious, played around with a few coins, made some money, didn't understand the hype and sold down.

What I don't get is the fanatics who make these "it's going to revolutionise everything!" but when asked specifically what issues it's solving, they can't tell me anything. Most of the times it can make things easier (such as country to country transfers) are only easier because it's bypassing regulation. As soon as it gets regulated properly, it'll be just as expensive. We can already send money between bank accounts via APIs with relative ease, there's just a lot of regulation that goes around that. We've done a project at work to do instant deposits with ClearBank and it's very simple to do.

Another example is the "you can trace everything!". Great, that sounds really fun. I can't wait for everything I've ever purchased to be publicly available. I'm sure that won't be at all used for nefarious purposes.

All any of this will do is put more power into the hands of those with power except for maybe proof of work based coins but they are not viable as a currency due to the power consumption they need.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 12:12 - Feb 21 with 1671 viewsDanTheMan

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:53 - Feb 21 by Steve_M

There is also this which may slowly allow people to realise why state-backed banks are not an inherent evil of the financial system:



Think it was far less than that ("only" $3million) but still interesting to see the same old scams given a new life in crypto.

https://dirtybubblemedia.substack.com/p/phishing-on-the-opensea?utm_source=url

A months worth of work for $3million, not too shabby.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 12:30 - Feb 21 with 1609 viewsNthQldITFC

There's no escaping it. We are absolutely idiotic, selfish, egotistical, greed-driven, world-destroying species. Our future generations are fkd, let alone nature. There's no sign of any significant, effective changes in human behaviour happening now, despite all the evidence of the scale of the problem. It will only be when massive 'calamity' strikes the so-called developed world that we, as a species, will say "Oh, poor little us, why weren't we told?". But we were. Insane.

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 12:40 - Feb 21 with 1568 viewsmonytowbray

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:55 - Feb 21 by DanTheMan

Amusingly most of the developers I know stay well away with crypto and the ones who do use it do it solely to make money and nothing else. They don't see any real value in it, just it's fairly simple to trade compared to real markets. Once upon a time I was curious, played around with a few coins, made some money, didn't understand the hype and sold down.

What I don't get is the fanatics who make these "it's going to revolutionise everything!" but when asked specifically what issues it's solving, they can't tell me anything. Most of the times it can make things easier (such as country to country transfers) are only easier because it's bypassing regulation. As soon as it gets regulated properly, it'll be just as expensive. We can already send money between bank accounts via APIs with relative ease, there's just a lot of regulation that goes around that. We've done a project at work to do instant deposits with ClearBank and it's very simple to do.

Another example is the "you can trace everything!". Great, that sounds really fun. I can't wait for everything I've ever purchased to be publicly available. I'm sure that won't be at all used for nefarious purposes.

All any of this will do is put more power into the hands of those with power except for maybe proof of work based coins but they are not viable as a currency due to the power consumption they need.


From what I see in conspiracy and right wing watch circles there is a whole demographic to be had with getting out of the system, often pushed and used by people who are too bigoted and dangerous for mainstream social media.

Some of that is the sovereign citizen stuff which ties in heavy with the antivaxx movement, some of it is moving people to places to further radicalise them (Truth Social, Parler, Gab, etc), some of it is rich tech bros on the scam and wanting to pay less tax, some of it are people like myself who are just a bit fed up of society and want a way out.

Unfortunately a lot of the challenges we face and the tactics bad faith actors exploit these days come from how poor government/power has performed in terms of truth/trust. It's very easy to be exploited in that state of worry/frustration by flim flam ideas that simplify the answer and give back perceived power. I know the sovereign citizen movement is psuedo-legal silliness in concept, but I completely get the principle of the fact we never agreed to be a part of mainstream society.

Crypto ties in heavily to that, but as we've seen with all these largely right-wing funded initiatives, there are usually bigger privacy issues and f**k knows where your data ends up.

Our regulation of the internet moves too fast to keep up, but we are miles more behind than we need be.

FWIW I think crypto has a future, but it will be in moving global currency into that form and not adopting outside ones. Same as promissory notes used by travelling traders to save carrying heavy and theft-prone coins eventually became paper money.

SIDENOTE - If you want to escape the system, trade economy is the way to go. Challenging in the modern world but you can give and gain more than you think in every day life without cash changing hands.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 12:44]

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 12:55 - Feb 21 with 1501 viewschicoazul

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 11:16 - Feb 21 by captainfantastic

Dan,

You are correct.

In 1996, the internet was clunky, slow and expensive. It had many haters.

Crypto adoption is faster than that of the internet, the best brains from all over the world are going into it.

Go figure


Cant begin to imagine why Peter Thiel for one would invest so heavily in crypto. Still I’m sure a currency originally invented to pay sex workers and for organ transplants is totally above board.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 13:00 - Feb 21 with 1474 viewsmonytowbray

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 12:55 - Feb 21 by chicoazul

Cant begin to imagine why Peter Thiel for one would invest so heavily in crypto. Still I’m sure a currency originally invented to pay sex workers and for organ transplants is totally above board.


Because Peter Thiel is literally the exact type of tech Billionaire the dystopian Sci-fi novels warned us about.

I can't think of a single business or PR move he's made in the last decade that didn't scare me.

Like most subjects, you completely lack any knowledge on this beyond what someone once blurted out down the pub once if you think crypto was invented for what you claim.
[Post edited 21 Feb 2022 13:01]

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And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 13:00 - Feb 21 with 1474 viewsBlueBadger

And this is why Bitcoin etc will be seen by future generations on 12:30 - Feb 21 by NthQldITFC

There's no escaping it. We are absolutely idiotic, selfish, egotistical, greed-driven, world-destroying species. Our future generations are fkd, let alone nature. There's no sign of any significant, effective changes in human behaviour happening now, despite all the evidence of the scale of the problem. It will only be when massive 'calamity' strikes the so-called developed world that we, as a species, will say "Oh, poor little us, why weren't we told?". But we were. Insane.



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