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I dislike them anyway and think they’re pretty selfish and dangerous for those with asthma/COPD etc, but this, especially given Bradford’s history is so, so poor.
[Post edited 14 Aug 2022 14:29]
Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA
It's so disappointing reading the comments when a thread on this topic comes up. Many people think pyro augments the atmosphere and ambience at football matches. No-one can fail to be moved at the sight of a packed end in one of Europe's big leagues, with flags and smoke billowing, illuminated by flares. Why can't legislators work with these fans and find a way to safely incorporate pyro into the matchday experience and create something we can ALL enjoy?
As with Prohibition in the US, criminalising an act - particularly a 'victimless' crime that loses legitimacy in the eyes of the populace - just drives it underground into the hands of irresponsible people, makes it more dangerous and harder to control. That lad at Bradford lobbed the flare (or smoke bomb, two very distinct things) because if he'd been caught with it he'd have received a punishment outrageously disproportionate to the offence. How much serious harm (when used sensibly, of course) does pyro actually cause? There must be reams of data from the continent where their use is far more widespread. Surely we should be inundated with stories of stadium fires and horrible burns injuries from the Bundesliga?
I'd have 'pyro zones' at the front of the North lower. Only one person at a time, with buckets of water and sand with a fire marshall nearby. Any fan who enters has to have had some kind of fire safety training/training in handling pyro. They manage it in MLS for crying out loud, in one of the most risk adverse countries in the world...
Whilst noting your post, this thread in particular was about Bradford specifically and the historic context which makes it significantly worse.
I did share my opinion on flares (purely because I’ve seen how the smoke has affected those near me). To me, it’s either doing them in a safe area, which people can choose to be in (as you suggested) or not having them in the stadiums.
Re. your point about the Bradford individual, given that they lobbed it into their own fans, causing burns to one person and distress to a small child attending their first game, I hold zero sympathy and would hazard a guess that they are EXACTLY the sort of person who should not have access to these things. You shouldn’t make excuses for him.
If iPhones were banned and someone snuck one in, would you be happy with them smashing it against someone’s head a few rows down so they didn’t get caught?
[Post edited 14 Aug 2022 22:31]
Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA
I do like pyros at matches and I think they add to the colour and atmosphere.
They particularly "add to the atmosphere" for those who have any sort of respiratory condition - an atmosphere that makes it difficult for them to breathe & which may cause increased damage to their lungs.
Smoke drifts uncontrollably; in a stadium the drift may well be variable & in unpredictable directions. Many people will be unable to get away quickly enough to avoid it.
Unbelievable that you (& apparently one or two others on this thread) are prepared to put fellow fans - well actually, any other human beings - at risk in this way.
They particularly "add to the atmosphere" for those who have any sort of respiratory condition - an atmosphere that makes it difficult for them to breathe & which may cause increased damage to their lungs.
Smoke drifts uncontrollably; in a stadium the drift may well be variable & in unpredictable directions. Many people will be unable to get away quickly enough to avoid it.
Unbelievable that you (& apparently one or two others on this thread) are prepared to put fellow fans - well actually, any other human beings - at risk in this way.
But how many people suffer from that bad of respiratory condition? They is always going to be someone who has some ailments that make it hard for them. If that sounds selfish and unsympathetic then so be it - a lot of people that use that argument have no problems owning a car which causes more respiratory problems for people compared to a few smoke bombs.
But how many people suffer from that bad of respiratory condition? They is always going to be someone who has some ailments that make it hard for them. If that sounds selfish and unsympathetic then so be it - a lot of people that use that argument have no problems owning a car which causes more respiratory problems for people compared to a few smoke bombs.
I’ve no idea how many people suffer from respiratory problems but if there were say 23 in PR on Saturday, that’d represent 0.1%. For me that’s more than enough to ban flares/smoke bombs. Why should one person have their afternoon made a misery by another thinking a firework in a football ground is good fun?
Aside from this, there will inevitably be incidents with flares and fireworks in busy environments, as there was last year.
I just think they’re unnecessary and because they look quite atmospheric at Boca Juniors or Barcelona, I don’t see the necessity for them here. When I’ve attended games with good atmospheres such as the Bolton play off, my first thought has never been ‘what we really need is a few flares’.
I’ve no idea how many people suffer from respiratory problems but if there were say 23 in PR on Saturday, that’d represent 0.1%. For me that’s more than enough to ban flares/smoke bombs. Why should one person have their afternoon made a misery by another thinking a firework in a football ground is good fun?
Aside from this, there will inevitably be incidents with flares and fireworks in busy environments, as there was last year.
I just think they’re unnecessary and because they look quite atmospheric at Boca Juniors or Barcelona, I don’t see the necessity for them here. When I’ve attended games with good atmospheres such as the Bolton play off, my first thought has never been ‘what we really need is a few flares’.
I’ve no idea how many people suffer from respiratory problems but if there were say 23 in PR on Saturday, that’d represent 0.1%. For me that’s more than enough to ban flares/smoke bombs. Why should one person have their afternoon made a misery by another thinking a firework in a football ground is good fun?
Aside from this, there will inevitably be incidents with flares and fireworks in busy environments, as there was last year.
I just think they’re unnecessary and because they look quite atmospheric at Boca Juniors or Barcelona, I don’t see the necessity for them here. When I’ve attended games with good atmospheres such as the Bolton play off, my first thought has never been ‘what we really need is a few flares’.
It's quite funny to see how people think flares etc 'add to the colour and atmosphere' I wonder how many have actually been in the Nef Stadium in Instanbul, for example, when this 'atmosphere' is really kicking of, and have any idea how intimidating it is to be anywhere near it?
Of course what Matt and co are thinking about is the highly saturated TV pictures from Dortmund or Galatasray. Not Ipswich v Morecambe in League one.
And as for 'not selfish' when clearly the vast amount of people don't want it, but you still do because you think its 'cool' then, thats the definition of selfishness.
It's quite funny to see how people think flares etc 'add to the colour and atmosphere' I wonder how many have actually been in the Nef Stadium in Instanbul, for example, when this 'atmosphere' is really kicking of, and have any idea how intimidating it is to be anywhere near it?
Of course what Matt and co are thinking about is the highly saturated TV pictures from Dortmund or Galatasray. Not Ipswich v Morecambe in League one.
And as for 'not selfish' when clearly the vast amount of people don't want it, but you still do because you think its 'cool' then, thats the definition of selfishness.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2022 8:59]
Yeah that’s why I didn’t both engaging anymore. It’s ignorance and selfishness to the extreme, to the point where I think he’s just trolling.
Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA
But how many people suffer from that bad of respiratory condition? They is always going to be someone who has some ailments that make it hard for them. If that sounds selfish and unsympathetic then so be it - a lot of people that use that argument have no problems owning a car which causes more respiratory problems for people compared to a few smoke bombs.
Given that we're still going through a Covid pandemic where an awful lot of people are suffering long term respiratory issues, to be in favour of flares at football grounds seems an act of borderline insanity....
Just one small problem; sell their houses to who, Ben? Fcking Aquaman?
Given that we're still going through a Covid pandemic where an awful lot of people are suffering long term respiratory issues, to be in favour of flares at football grounds seems an act of borderline insanity....
Yeah but they look awesome! *
* They obviously do look great as a spectacle, that’s not up for debate. But so does a rocket taking off, I just wouldn’t want it doing so next to me.
Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA
It's quite funny to see how people think flares etc 'add to the colour and atmosphere' I wonder how many have actually been in the Nef Stadium in Instanbul, for example, when this 'atmosphere' is really kicking of, and have any idea how intimidating it is to be anywhere near it?
Of course what Matt and co are thinking about is the highly saturated TV pictures from Dortmund or Galatasray. Not Ipswich v Morecambe in League one.
And as for 'not selfish' when clearly the vast amount of people don't want it, but you still do because you think its 'cool' then, thats the definition of selfishness.
You mean give training to those that wish to use fireworks in football grounds. Maybe a little certificate of flare worthiness.
Actually I thing firing automatic weapons in the air would add to the atmosphere and scare the heck out of the opposition. They're perfectly safe, according to the NRA. It’s people that cause death and injury, not guns. Ok an extreme example, but it’s the same argument.
You mean give training to those that wish to use fireworks in football grounds. Maybe a little certificate of flare worthiness.
Actually I thing firing automatic weapons in the air would add to the atmosphere and scare the heck out of the opposition. They're perfectly safe, according to the NRA. It’s people that cause death and injury, not guns. Ok an extreme example, but it’s the same argument.
Well done for being silly. You’ve seemed to have really gone for it on this thread. Well done you.
But how many people suffer from that bad of respiratory condition? They is always going to be someone who has some ailments that make it hard for them. If that sounds selfish and unsympathetic then so be it - a lot of people that use that argument have no problems owning a car which causes more respiratory problems for people compared to a few smoke bombs.
"a lot of people that use that argument have no problems owning a car"
What a nonsensical answer, a sign that you have 0 else to support your selfish view.
It obviously hasn't occurred to you that "a lot of people" with respiratory conditions have to use cars because they're too disabled or ill with those conditions to walk, cycle or use public transport; and/or live in rural areas where there's little or no public transport.
Whilst noting your post, this thread in particular was about Bradford specifically and the historic context which makes it significantly worse.
I did share my opinion on flares (purely because I’ve seen how the smoke has affected those near me). To me, it’s either doing them in a safe area, which people can choose to be in (as you suggested) or not having them in the stadiums.
Re. your point about the Bradford individual, given that they lobbed it into their own fans, causing burns to one person and distress to a small child attending their first game, I hold zero sympathy and would hazard a guess that they are EXACTLY the sort of person who should not have access to these things. You shouldn’t make excuses for him.
If iPhones were banned and someone snuck one in, would you be happy with them smashing it against someone’s head a few rows down so they didn’t get caught?
[Post edited 14 Aug 2022 22:31]
No no, you're absolutely right. Someone lobbing a flare into a crowded stand is bang out of order and they'd deserve everything coming to them. You'll never eliminate the irresponsible d*ckheads but come down hard on THEM, don't dish out blanket sanctions that affect the vast majority of the fanbase who are sensible and responsible. Some tw@ presumably hussed a full bottle of water with the lid on at someone once - is it fair that we ALL now have to have the lids removed from our drinks, in perpetuity? But you give a good, fair response, and you're not wrong. Just don't think it's unfeasible to create something that we could all benefit from and where no-one would get hurt...
It's emotive subject and i'm conscience of causing offence, but there were other factors that led to the Bradford fire, namely the outdated wooden stand and the century's worth of combustible material that had been allowed to build up underneath. Modern stadium designs thankfully make something that happening again almost impossible...
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