| Going to be Mordaunt 14:17 - Oct 20 with 4558 views | gtsb1966 |
and they win the next election in 2 years time unfortunately. Stick a quid on it. |  | | |  |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 07:46 - Oct 21 with 1347 views | bluelagos |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 20:34 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
If "Sunak didn't win because a good number of the Tory members were racially prejudiced" then how come BAME Tory Kemi Badenoch constantly topped the members poll during the leadership election?
Square that circle please. |
Am not stating either way, but I do challenge your assertion that the various polls prove there isn't significiant racism at play.
Is quite possible that if say around 1 in 10 Tory members voted for Truss rather than Sunak on the grounds of colour then that would have swayed the vote. It's simple maths, take 15k off Truss' vote and add them to Sunak's and he wins.
Personally I think Sunak lost because the average Tory member is economically illiterate and genuinely felt reducing taxes without funding was what the country needs.
Also a fair number of BJ supporters recognised Sunak's role in outsting BJ which am sure played a role.
But I do think your reasoning doesnt stand up whilst accepting we simply don't know fully why so many backed Truss. I err more on "They are idiots" than "They are racists" though of course some will be both. |  |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:09 - Oct 21 with 1301 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 07:46 - Oct 21 by bluelagos |
Am not stating either way, but I do challenge your assertion that the various polls prove there isn't significiant racism at play.
Is quite possible that if say around 1 in 10 Tory members voted for Truss rather than Sunak on the grounds of colour then that would have swayed the vote. It's simple maths, take 15k off Truss' vote and add them to Sunak's and he wins.
Personally I think Sunak lost because the average Tory member is economically illiterate and genuinely felt reducing taxes without funding was what the country needs.
Also a fair number of BJ supporters recognised Sunak's role in outsting BJ which am sure played a role.
But I do think your reasoning doesnt stand up whilst accepting we simply don't know fully why so many backed Truss. I err more on "They are idiots" than "They are racists" though of course some will be both. |
Badenoch would have beaten Truss had she been put forward to the members.
Members polls showed Badenoch would have beaten any of the other leadership candidates in a final two run off. Her skin colour was not an obstacle.
Since the height of the pandemic, Sunak had regularly topped the members polls as the most popular cabinet minister. That changed after his spring statement earlier in the year, which saw tax rises and he plummeted even further when he was even as being disloyal to Johnson when he resigned.
His tax policies and perceived disloyalty to Johnson was the reason he was beaten by Truss. Not the colour of his skin. |  |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:17 - Oct 21 with 1283 views | gtsb1966 |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:09 - Oct 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Badenoch would have beaten Truss had she been put forward to the members.
Members polls showed Badenoch would have beaten any of the other leadership candidates in a final two run off. Her skin colour was not an obstacle.
Since the height of the pandemic, Sunak had regularly topped the members polls as the most popular cabinet minister. That changed after his spring statement earlier in the year, which saw tax rises and he plummeted even further when he was even as being disloyal to Johnson when he resigned.
His tax policies and perceived disloyalty to Johnson was the reason he was beaten by Truss. Not the colour of his skin. |
And there was me thinking it was because he comes across as a smarmy , arrogant ****. | | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:29 - Oct 21 with 1267 views | bluelagos |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:09 - Oct 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Badenoch would have beaten Truss had she been put forward to the members.
Members polls showed Badenoch would have beaten any of the other leadership candidates in a final two run off. Her skin colour was not an obstacle.
Since the height of the pandemic, Sunak had regularly topped the members polls as the most popular cabinet minister. That changed after his spring statement earlier in the year, which saw tax rises and he plummeted even further when he was even as being disloyal to Johnson when he resigned.
His tax policies and perceived disloyalty to Johnson was the reason he was beaten by Truss. Not the colour of his skin. |
Your stats demonstrate that the majority of members are not voting for their leader based on colour. Accept that.
They do not demonstrate that all members voted that way. And it is quite feasible that around 1 in 10 did vote on the grounds of colour and that that swayed the vote.
Both those positions stand and I think it is wrong to state 'Colour played no part" or "Colour did play a part" as if they are facts. They are both opinions and without more analysis we simply dont know.
Institutional racism hasn't magically disappeared and that is as true of the Tory party as any other institution. That said, your figures do show any racism is reducing which is to be welcomed. | |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:38 - Oct 21 with 1241 views | thebooks |
Sunak will be the only one to get more than 100 MPs on side; it won't go to the members.
He's pretty useless (eat out to help out, anyone?) and will go down the austerity route, so the Tories will lose by a landslide next election.
Happily, they're fecked whatever, although the next two years will be utterly grim. The other problem is it looks like Starmer will go down the Osborne "they've ruined the finances so we're going to have to make some tough decisions" route. |  | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:43 - Oct 21 with 1225 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:38 - Oct 21 by thebooks |
Sunak will be the only one to get more than 100 MPs on side; it won't go to the members.
He's pretty useless (eat out to help out, anyone?) and will go down the austerity route, so the Tories will lose by a landslide next election.
Happily, they're fecked whatever, although the next two years will be utterly grim. The other problem is it looks like Starmer will go down the Osborne "they've ruined the finances so we're going to have to make some tough decisions" route. |
"Bring back Boris"....it's 3 words, it's catchy and it aliterates....an irresistible force. I think it's going to happen. |  |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:43 - Oct 21 with 1225 views | hype313 |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:38 - Oct 21 by thebooks |
Sunak will be the only one to get more than 100 MPs on side; it won't go to the members.
He's pretty useless (eat out to help out, anyone?) and will go down the austerity route, so the Tories will lose by a landslide next election.
Happily, they're fecked whatever, although the next two years will be utterly grim. The other problem is it looks like Starmer will go down the Osborne "they've ruined the finances so we're going to have to make some tough decisions" route. |
Find it baffling why anyone would want the gig, it's a poisoned chalice, even Labour must be thinking they don't fancy taking over this mess.
Was listening to a pod yesterday from some economists from Asia and the US, they believe we are in for some incredibly tough financial times over the next 3-5 years.
It looks very bleak for the UK, whoever is in power. |  |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:44 - Oct 21 with 1221 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:29 - Oct 21 by bluelagos |
Your stats demonstrate that the majority of members are not voting for their leader based on colour. Accept that.
They do not demonstrate that all members voted that way. And it is quite feasible that around 1 in 10 did vote on the grounds of colour and that that swayed the vote.
Both those positions stand and I think it is wrong to state 'Colour played no part" or "Colour did play a part" as if they are facts. They are both opinions and without more analysis we simply dont know.
Institutional racism hasn't magically disappeared and that is as true of the Tory party as any other institution. That said, your figures do show any racism is reducing which is to be welcomed. |
Nobody said that “Institutional racism hasn't magically disappeared”. But my original reply was to somebody who said “ Sunak didn't win because a good number of the Tory members were racially prejudiced”.
The poll leads for Badenoch disproves that. | |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:45 - Oct 21 with 1220 views | gtsb1966 |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:38 - Oct 21 by thebooks |
Sunak will be the only one to get more than 100 MPs on side; it won't go to the members.
He's pretty useless (eat out to help out, anyone?) and will go down the austerity route, so the Tories will lose by a landslide next election.
Happily, they're fecked whatever, although the next two years will be utterly grim. The other problem is it looks like Starmer will go down the Osborne "they've ruined the finances so we're going to have to make some tough decisions" route. |
Why won't Mordaunt get 100. She spoke quite well at the despatch box the other day. Don't get me wrong I can't stand the woman but I still think she'll be the winner . I confess not to be as clued up as a lot of you when it comes to political matters but reading various articles she has a good chance. | | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:51 - Oct 21 with 1207 views | thebooks |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:43 - Oct 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"Bring back Boris"....it's 3 words, it's catchy and it aliterates....an irresistible force. I think it's going to happen. |
In Johnson's mind I'm sure he's loving a Churchillesque comeback (compressed into a couple of months). Can't see it myself, but you never know.
He's probably their only chance in 2024 - it was a mistake them getting rid in the first place - but far more likely he would make them implode in a few months. | | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:59 - Oct 21 with 1188 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:45 - Oct 21 by gtsb1966 |
Why won't Mordaunt get 100. She spoke quite well at the despatch box the other day. Don't get me wrong I can't stand the woman but I still think she'll be the winner . I confess not to be as clued up as a lot of you when it comes to political matters but reading various articles she has a good chance. |
Because we don’t need a ‘winner’. We need sone one who has financial credibility with the markets and the experience to deal with the economic mess left by Truss and Kwarteng. | |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 09:02 - Oct 21 with 1171 views | thebooks |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:43 - Oct 21 by hype313 |
Find it baffling why anyone would want the gig, it's a poisoned chalice, even Labour must be thinking they don't fancy taking over this mess.
Was listening to a pod yesterday from some economists from Asia and the US, they believe we are in for some incredibly tough financial times over the next 3-5 years.
It looks very bleak for the UK, whoever is in power. |
It is bleak. These times call for a different approach, but worringly all we're hearing are the same post-crash, TINA, we'll have to cut public-spending voices. | | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 09:07 - Oct 21 with 1138 views | thebooks |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:45 - Oct 21 by gtsb1966 |
Why won't Mordaunt get 100. She spoke quite well at the despatch box the other day. Don't get me wrong I can't stand the woman but I still think she'll be the winner . I confess not to be as clued up as a lot of you when it comes to political matters but reading various articles she has a good chance. |
Ha, I'm no more clued up than anyone else really.
My reasoning is: their MPs don't want the membership having a say, so they'll coalesce around what they see as a "sane" candidate. As Sunak had most support from them before, it'll focus some minds and they'll try and engineer the whole thing. I could be wrong, though.
I agree that Mordaunt would be a better bet for them. | | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 09:09 - Oct 21 with 1133 views | Beckets |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 08:44 - Oct 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Nobody said that “Institutional racism hasn't magically disappeared”. But my original reply was to somebody who said “ Sunak didn't win because a good number of the Tory members were racially prejudiced”.
The poll leads for Badenoch disproves that. |
The poll lead doesn’t disprove it. Answers to opinion polls are a different thing to the ballot box. In the former the person is not accountable for their response, in the latter they are. |  | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 09:31 - Oct 21 with 1105 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
The fact that they keep coming out with comments like “Mordaunt is the candidate to beat Labour” says it all really. That’s all they care about.
They don’t give a f*** about delivering anything, no vision, no boosting economic growth, improving standards of living - it’s all about winning and staying in power.
Yeah but Starmer is just as bad he was mean to Jezza, and he forgot to declare a large lamb donner. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 10:11]
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 10:06 - Oct 21 with 1072 views | jeera |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 09:31 - Oct 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
The fact that they keep coming out with comments like “Mordaunt is the candidate to beat Labour” says it all really. That’s all they care about.
They don’t give a f*** about delivering anything, no vision, no boosting economic growth, improving standards of living - it’s all about winning and staying in power.
Yeah but Starmer is just as bad he was mean to Jezza, and he forgot to declare a large lamb donner. [Post edited 21 Oct 2022 10:11]
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I keep banging my head on this.
Every single time you hear these people speak there's no mention of the people of this country outside of the odd platitude about energy bills.
It's always about the next election.
Yet they still have their fans and as often as not they appear to be the average bod on the street. You can only assume people are stupid. That's it. There is no other feasible explanation. |  |
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| Be funnier if they.... on 16:58 - Oct 21 with 991 views | gazzer1999 |
| Be funnier if they.... on 14:46 - Oct 20 by BlueBadger |
Rishi was quite happy to prop up the open corruption, bigotry, incompetence, etc, etc of the Johnson regime right up until it didn't suit him anymore.
He's not so much the 'best' as 'maybe one of the least worst'. |
For a moment I thought you were talking about Starmer with Corbyn there. |  | | |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 19:18 - Oct 21 with 933 views | jeera |
Some old bloke on the telly just said that because "Johnson models himself on Churchill" he should be given another shot.
Reasoning being, "Well, Churchill did alright on his second go didn't he". | |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 19:20 - Oct 21 with 928 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 19:18 - Oct 21 by jeera |
Some old bloke on the telly just said that because "Johnson models himself on Churchill" he should be given another shot.
Reasoning being, "Well, Churchill did alright on his second go didn't he". |
Except he didn't. Churchill was sadly well past his best on his 'second go' in 1951.
Johnson, of course, isn't fit to lick Churchill's boots. | |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 11:55 - Oct 22 with 861 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 19:20 - Oct 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Except he didn't. Churchill was sadly well past his best on his 'second go' in 1951.
Johnson, of course, isn't fit to lick Churchill's boots. |
Churchill was a, sort of, Conservative; Johnson is an autocrat. |  |
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| Going to be Mordaunt on 13:14 - Oct 22 with 841 views | Radlett_blue |
| Going to be Mordaunt on 11:55 - Oct 22 by You_Bloo_Right |
Churchill was a, sort of, Conservative; Johnson is an autocrat. |
You couldn't be more wrong. Johnson doesn't think that the normal rules apply to him, but he's a populist who wants to be liked. |  |
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