| Interesting quote from Rovers forum 17:46 - Feb 15 with 5551 views | backwaywhen |
That’s better Joey , learn to adapt to league 1 , cut out 15/20% of the tippy tappy and increase the more pragmatic football by 15/20% to succeed , we struggle against the hardened teams and are mor successful against better teams ! …….. familiar anyone . |  | | |  |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 09:11 - Feb 17 with 931 views | Dyland |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:52 - Feb 16 by FrimleyBlue |
This is why I was so vocal about morsy as a skipper.
His play sets the tone of others. His slow safe football basically ensured we couldn't progress up the pitch with any tempo. If your captain is going at 2mph so will the rest. |
Aye, Morsy's speed of play is definitely what's costing us points.
It's the goals against that's stuffing our form up. Is Morsy's slow safe football to blame for that?
Not to say Morsy's performances haven't been as good as earlier in the season, but there are myriad reasons for that, but largely it's to do with the other available central midfielders. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 09:38 - Feb 17 with 901 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 09:11 - Feb 17 by Dyland |
Aye, Morsy's speed of play is definitely what's costing us points.
It's the goals against that's stuffing our form up. Is Morsy's slow safe football to blame for that?
Not to say Morsy's performances haven't been as good as earlier in the season, but there are myriad reasons for that, but largely it's to do with the other available central midfielders. |
There's not just 1 thing which is the cause of our form. It's a collective
However on the discussion of slowness of play etc. Yes the lack of performances from Morsy is part of those problems.
As he showed again v Wednesday 2nd half however when he's on it. Driven and determined. He's another level and the team responds. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 13:25 - Feb 17 with 825 views | Pilgrimblue |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 09:38 - Feb 17 by FrimleyBlue |
There's not just 1 thing which is the cause of our form. It's a collective
However on the discussion of slowness of play etc. Yes the lack of performances from Morsy is part of those problems.
As he showed again v Wednesday 2nd half however when he's on it. Driven and determined. He's another level and the team responds. |
Correct
It does my head in when players so often pass the ball back no once but many times to the same player. Why no call to turn when there's time and space to get forward!!
For example when a pass goes to Burgess the play moves to he left and there's space on the right which Burns can exploit. So why isnt he putting diagonal pass over to Burns! Too often we play obvious balls down he channel or in the centre which is fine but not always. |  | | |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 17:07 - Feb 17 with 757 views | mrfixit426 |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 13:25 - Feb 17 by Pilgrimblue |
Correct
It does my head in when players so often pass the ball back no once but many times to the same player. Why no call to turn when there's time and space to get forward!!
For example when a pass goes to Burgess the play moves to he left and there's space on the right which Burns can exploit. So why isnt he putting diagonal pass over to Burns! Too often we play obvious balls down he channel or in the centre which is fine but not always. |
That's exactly what Lee Evans was doing until he got injured.
IMHO we've missed him and TJJ loads. They both give us something different which nobody else in the squad can. |  | | |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 02:33 - Feb 18 with 719 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 12:39 - Feb 16 by jayessess |
if we were launching it forward over and over again, we'd be asking why we keep chucking long balls onto the heads of League One centre backs for whom it's meat and drink.
Here's the thing.
We went to Adams Park to play Wycombe Wanderers.
We had 20 attempts on goal to their 8, came away 1-0 losers.
Sheffield Wednesday went to Adams park to play Wycombe Wanders.
They had 12 attempts to goal to their 7, came away 1-0 winners.
That's nothing to do with being too tippy-tappy and not having efforts on goal. |
There is a middle ground between slow and ponderous possession play and chucking up long balls. We need more urgency and purposeful passing. A certain amount of risk taking in and around the box.
A bit more purpose and urgency in in our play may result in fewer, but better chances.
We also need to learn how to close out a game. Kill the momentum against Plymouth, for example, like Sheff Wed did against us.
The urgency is something we have had earlier in the season and something that is seemingly confidence based. Closing out games / dealing we opposition pressure has been evident since Barnsley. Instantly inviting pressure after a goal in that case. |  |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:07 - Feb 19 with 647 views | jayessess |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 02:33 - Feb 18 by Kropotkin123 |
There is a middle ground between slow and ponderous possession play and chucking up long balls. We need more urgency and purposeful passing. A certain amount of risk taking in and around the box.
A bit more purpose and urgency in in our play may result in fewer, but better chances.
We also need to learn how to close out a game. Kill the momentum against Plymouth, for example, like Sheff Wed did against us.
The urgency is something we have had earlier in the season and something that is seemingly confidence based. Closing out games / dealing we opposition pressure has been evident since Barnsley. Instantly inviting pressure after a goal in that case. |
Between Burns' goal in the 63rd minute and their equaliser Plymouth had zero shots, then scored with a partially blocked effort from the edge of the penalty area.
Between Davis' equaliser (51) and the final whistle we had 6 shots, 3 from well inside the penalty area.
Hard to conclude that Wednesday managed the game much better than we did. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 18:11]
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:23 - Feb 19 with 623 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:07 - Feb 19 by jayessess |
Between Burns' goal in the 63rd minute and their equaliser Plymouth had zero shots, then scored with a partially blocked effort from the edge of the penalty area.
Between Davis' equaliser (51) and the final whistle we had 6 shots, 3 from well inside the penalty area.
Hard to conclude that Wednesday managed the game much better than we did. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 18:11]
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We had 6 shots and scored 0. Plymouth had 1 shot and scored 1. Pretty easy to argue who was more effective at seeing out the game. It's the same in every game that we create more chances. But our defence consistently concedes more from less opportunities, and part of that is when the opposition has some tempo, we don't have a player go down for 2minutes, where we are calming things down. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:40 - Feb 19 with 593 views | jayessess |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:23 - Feb 19 by Kropotkin123 |
We had 6 shots and scored 0. Plymouth had 1 shot and scored 1. Pretty easy to argue who was more effective at seeing out the game. It's the same in every game that we create more chances. But our defence consistently concedes more from less opportunities, and part of that is when the opposition has some tempo, we don't have a player go down for 2minutes, where we are calming things down. |
Seems a particularly fruitless way to think about "game management".
If Mumba's shot isn't blocked and Walton saves it easily have we managed the game better? Of course not, we gave him a clearer shot at goal!
If Ladapo connects better with his stoppage time shot against Sheffield Wednesday and it nestles in the bottom corner, have Sheffield Wednesday managed the game worse?
Again, of course they haven't, they've given up the exact same chance, they don't control whether our player executes his shot badly or well.
Purpose of game management is to give up as few chances to the opposition as possible. Whether they happen to take them or not isn't something your game management affects. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:47 - Feb 19 with 586 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:23 - Feb 19 by Kropotkin123 |
We had 6 shots and scored 0. Plymouth had 1 shot and scored 1. Pretty easy to argue who was more effective at seeing out the game. It's the same in every game that we create more chances. But our defence consistently concedes more from less opportunities, and part of that is when the opposition has some tempo, we don't have a player go down for 2minutes, where we are calming things down. |
I wanted to check an assumption around this
Team: GA to Shots Against ratio
Forest Green: 4.63
Burton: 4.26
Ipswich: 4.25
Port Vale: 4.11
Milton Keynes Dons: 4.02
Bristol Rovers: 3.90
Cambridge U: 3.86
Oxford: 3.73
Peterborough: 3.65
Accrington: 3.56
Exeter: 3.55
Portsmouth: 3.10
Charlton: 3.07
Cheltenham: 3.03
Barnsley: 2.97
Morecambe: 2.94
Shrewsbury: 2.66
Plymouth: 2.54
Derby: 2.53
Lincoln City: 2.40
Fleetwood: 2.39
Bolton: 2.31
Sheffield Wednesday: 2.27
Wycombe: 1.87
Whether my reasoning (not killing the tempo of the opposition, so when they do get their chances, they are more likely to score) is correct or not, providing shots against is not a good way to measure our defensive issues.
The issue is not that we concede a lot of opportunities, it is more that of those opportunities we do concede, we are the third worst for conceding goals. We need to find an answer to why that is, if we want to improve. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:51 - Feb 19 with 580 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:40 - Feb 19 by jayessess |
Seems a particularly fruitless way to think about "game management".
If Mumba's shot isn't blocked and Walton saves it easily have we managed the game better? Of course not, we gave him a clearer shot at goal!
If Ladapo connects better with his stoppage time shot against Sheffield Wednesday and it nestles in the bottom corner, have Sheffield Wednesday managed the game worse?
Again, of course they haven't, they've given up the exact same chance, they don't control whether our player executes his shot badly or well.
Purpose of game management is to give up as few chances to the opposition as possible. Whether they happen to take them or not isn't something your game management affects. |
If it was a one off situation, I'd agree with you, but it is a clear and consistent issue, backed up by the stats. As I said in my other post, I may be wrong with my suggestion to fix it/part of it. But we need to fix the overall issue, and not put it down to luck/misfortune. The reality is we are the third worst in the division for teams converting the chances they get against us. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 18:52]
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 21:41 - Feb 19 with 541 views | jayessess |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 18:51 - Feb 19 by Kropotkin123 |
If it was a one off situation, I'd agree with you, but it is a clear and consistent issue, backed up by the stats. As I said in my other post, I may be wrong with my suggestion to fix it/part of it. But we need to fix the overall issue, and not put it down to luck/misfortune. The reality is we are the third worst in the division for teams converting the chances they get against us. [Post edited 19 Feb 2023 18:52]
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You did specifically give those examples... | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 22:51 - Feb 20 with 389 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 21:41 - Feb 19 by jayessess |
You did specifically give those examples... |
Those specific examples can respresent what we are both saying. But in the context of the season, it demonstrates what I am saying. It demonstrates that you cannot simply look at "shots against" as shutting the opposition out. We have the least shots against us per game in the division. We have this problem, not Sheffield Wednesday.
If you want to be disregard the additional stats I used to highlight the point, then your point still doesn't stand on the most basic level, because we conceeded, and Sheffield Wednesday didn't. | |
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| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 08:57 - Feb 21 with 336 views | jayessess |
| Interesting quote from Rovers forum on 22:51 - Feb 20 by Kropotkin123 |
Those specific examples can respresent what we are both saying. But in the context of the season, it demonstrates what I am saying. It demonstrates that you cannot simply look at "shots against" as shutting the opposition out. We have the least shots against us per game in the division. We have this problem, not Sheffield Wednesday.
If you want to be disregard the additional stats I used to highlight the point, then your point still doesn't stand on the most basic level, because we conceeded, and Sheffield Wednesday didn't. |
On the specific point, if you're going to argue that we should have killed Plymouth momentum like Sheffield Wednesday did against us, then those games don't reflect that.
I was at both games and it doesn't fit the eye test. Plymouth game was dead between the 60th and 90th minute, Plymouth had zero momentum. We put way more pressure on the Wednesday goal after our equaliser than Plymouth did at ours after we took the lead.
If we want to get statistical it doesn't particularly fit the stats either. Not for shots, not for xG, not for "attacking momentum".
I don't think the overall argument has much merit either to be honest. The statistics you've quoted say we concede from comparatively few shots. The relationship to what tempo we allow the opposition to play is entirely speculative.
Why would "allowing higher tempo" produce better shooting opportunities? Why isn't the quality of these chances reflected in our xG conceded (lowest in the league) or big chances conceded (lowest in the league)? Wouldn't allowing the opposition to play at higher tempo allow them more shooting opportunities, not fewer? [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 18:09]
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