| Ndaba 19:37 - Feb 20 with 11261 views | Clutch |
Reposting Andrew Tate on Instagram, what a tool. |  | | |  |
| Ndaba on 17:28 - Feb 21 with 2051 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Ndaba on 17:18 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Honestly, I don't feel that strongly about him either way. What a " celebrity" says or does does not get me up or down. if Ndaba likes him so be it, he is his own person and can like or dislike whatever he chooses. |
If you were a talking about a Clarkson opinion piece, calculated to wind up Lefties and Greens and get a reaction, you might have a point.
Tate isn't "a celebrity with opinions". He is someone who makes porn enacting violent fantasies, and is currently under arrest, and in detention, for having trafficked, coerced and controlled women into making that misogynistic porn.
If a Town player was retweeting Clarkson, or Katie Hopkins, or even Right Said Fred, that would be one thing. To retweet some under arrest for organised crime involving rape is another level of potentially "bringing the club into disrepute".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64722716 |  | | |
| [Redacted] on 17:38 - Feb 21 with 1987 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 17:18 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Honestly, I don't feel that strongly about him either way. What a " celebrity" says or does does not get me up or down. if Ndaba likes him so be it, he is his own person and can like or dislike whatever he chooses. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Ndaba on 17:44 - Feb 21 with 1934 views | JackNorthStand |
Why do you feel masculinity is toxic ? | | | |
| Ndaba on 17:47 - Feb 21 with 1904 views | JackNorthStand |
| Ndaba on 17:28 - Feb 21 by ArnoldMoorhen |
If you were a talking about a Clarkson opinion piece, calculated to wind up Lefties and Greens and get a reaction, you might have a point.
Tate isn't "a celebrity with opinions". He is someone who makes porn enacting violent fantasies, and is currently under arrest, and in detention, for having trafficked, coerced and controlled women into making that misogynistic porn.
If a Town player was retweeting Clarkson, or Katie Hopkins, or even Right Said Fred, that would be one thing. To retweet some under arrest for organised crime involving rape is another level of potentially "bringing the club into disrepute".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64722716 |
To be fair. You are correct with that last sentence. I genuinely do not follow Andrew Tate or keep up with what he does or doesn't do. I was under the impression that what he was arrested for had all blown away or was some media stunt as I have heard no more about it since. | | | |
| [Redacted] on 17:49 - Feb 21 with 1886 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 17:44 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Why do you feel masculinity is toxic ? |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ndaba on 17:52 - Feb 21 with 1844 views | Mullet |
| Ndaba on 17:44 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Why do you feel masculinity is toxic ? |
That question betrays you don't really know what masculinity is which is the most common problem. As with most intangible concepts most peoples' idea is some conglomerate of things that date back to the 1950's or so, and have their roots in a plethora of concepts welded together by delving back further in time. |  |
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| Ndaba on 17:54 - Feb 21 with 1836 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Ndaba on 17:44 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Why do you feel masculinity is toxic ? |
"Toxic Masculinity" is a label for a view of what it means to be a man that is psychologically harmful to boys and men, and often leads to psychological, physical and sexual abuse for women.
Masculinity itself isn't toxic, but some ways of talking and thinking about it lead to harm.
See:
"The term “toxic masculinity” points to a particular version of masculinity that is unhealthy for the men and boys who conform to it, and harmful for those around them.
The phrase emphasises the worst aspects of stereotypically masculine attributes. Toxic masculinity is represented by qualities such as violence, dominance, emotional illiteracy, sexual entitlement, and hostility to femininity.
This version of masculinity is seen as “toxic” for two reasons.
First, it is bad for women. It shapes sexist and patriarchal behaviours, including abusive or violent treatment of women. Toxic masculinity thus contributes to gender inequalities that disadvantage women and privilege men.
Second, toxic masculinity is bad for men and boys themselves. Narrow stereotypical norms constrain men’s physical and emotional health and their relations with women, other men, and children."
from:
https://theconversation.com/toxic-masculinity-what-does-it-mean-where-did-it-com | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:10 - Feb 21 with 1743 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Ndaba on 17:47 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
To be fair. You are correct with that last sentence. I genuinely do not follow Andrew Tate or keep up with what he does or doesn't do. I was under the impression that what he was arrested for had all blown away or was some media stunt as I have heard no more about it since. |
A lot of work has been done since World War 2 by psychologists to try to understand criminal behaviour, and in particular, why men rape or abuse children.
The sexual attraction in a loving relationship comes from finding the other attractive, enjoying the fact that they find you attractive, sharing intimacy, trusting, and building bonds through loving touch.
This can only be the case when the sex is respectful and consensual.
The motivation in rape or sexual abuse is quite different. It is about asserting dominance and control. About forcing the other person to do what pleases you, and not caring what that does to them.
Tate promotes this approach to sexuality in his porn and in his opinion videos.
It is dangerous and hateful. It damages women who are raped and abused by young adults who believe that this is what it means to be a man.
And it stunts the emotional development of those young adults, and denies them the opportunity to explore and enjoy consensual, loving sex.
Whether Tate is eventually found guilty or not, he is damaging a generation of young men by feeding them a hate-filled view of sexuality. And the potential (willing or unwilling) sexual partners of those young men in the future are at risk of abuse as a result. | | | |
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| Ndaba on 18:10 - Feb 21 with 1740 views | DanTheMan |
It's hard enough to define masculinity.
Even taking a vanilla example like "strong", being strong by itself isn't really good or bad. It's what you do with it that counts.
And usually the further you go the more it turns out that being a good man is just being a good person with being male being little to do with it. |  |
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| Ndaba on 18:14 - Feb 21 with 1708 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Ndaba on 18:10 - Feb 21 by DanTheMan |
It's hard enough to define masculinity.
Even taking a vanilla example like "strong", being strong by itself isn't really good or bad. It's what you do with it that counts.
And usually the further you go the more it turns out that being a good man is just being a good person with being male being little to do with it. |
The added extra is that being a good man now needs to involve calling out Toxic Masculinity, rejecting it, and explaining why, respectfully. | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:14 - Feb 21 with 1708 views | TresBonne |
Bit of a strange analogy, if you're trying to insinuate that I'm homosexual. |  | | |
| [Redacted] on 18:22 - Feb 21 with 1660 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 18:14 - Feb 21 by TresBonne |
Bit of a strange analogy, if you're trying to insinuate that I'm homosexual. |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 with 1625 views | TresBonne |
Tell me then, would you rather Sam Smith, Cardi B, James Charles etc be wheeled out etc in front of your children? | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 with 1622 views | JackNorthStand |
Muscles and tattoos are toxically masculine ? | | | |
| [Redacted] on 18:32 - Feb 21 with 1596 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Muscles and tattoos are toxically masculine ? |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:34 - Feb 21 with 1561 views | JackNorthStand |
What would you say is more masculinely toxic, muscles or tattoos ? | | | |
| [Redacted] on 18:37 - Feb 21 with 1525 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 by TresBonne |
Tell me then, would you rather Sam Smith, Cardi B, James Charles etc be wheeled out etc in front of your children? |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:44 - Feb 21 with 1468 views | Mullet |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 by TresBonne |
Tell me then, would you rather Sam Smith, Cardi B, James Charles etc be wheeled out etc in front of your children? |
Why does one terrible influence become legitimised by another?
Also, parents have a responsibility to gatekeep what children see and some abdicate that completely whilst others don't know how to, it's a complex issue.
But Ndaba is not a child either, so him sharing this sort of stuff is the same thing you're complaining about there.
FWIW has Sam Smith done anything criminal like the others? Beyond upsetting homophobes, Tories and the amateur fashion police, is he in the same bracket at all? | |
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| [Redacted] on 18:47 - Feb 21 with 1445 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
Muscles and tattoos are toxically masculine ? |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:47 - Feb 21 with 1438 views | J2BLUE |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 by TresBonne |
Tell me then, would you rather Sam Smith, Cardi B, James Charles etc be wheeled out etc in front of your children? |
Not sure what any of them have done to be honest but Tate is toxic scum. |  |
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| Ndaba on 18:52 - Feb 21 with 1384 views | JackNorthStand |
So which is it that's more harmful to men, muscles or tattoos ? | | | |
| Ndaba on 18:59 - Feb 21 with 1346 views | Mullet |
| Ndaba on 17:54 - Feb 21 by ArnoldMoorhen |
"Toxic Masculinity" is a label for a view of what it means to be a man that is psychologically harmful to boys and men, and often leads to psychological, physical and sexual abuse for women.
Masculinity itself isn't toxic, but some ways of talking and thinking about it lead to harm.
See:
"The term “toxic masculinity” points to a particular version of masculinity that is unhealthy for the men and boys who conform to it, and harmful for those around them.
The phrase emphasises the worst aspects of stereotypically masculine attributes. Toxic masculinity is represented by qualities such as violence, dominance, emotional illiteracy, sexual entitlement, and hostility to femininity.
This version of masculinity is seen as “toxic” for two reasons.
First, it is bad for women. It shapes sexist and patriarchal behaviours, including abusive or violent treatment of women. Toxic masculinity thus contributes to gender inequalities that disadvantage women and privilege men.
Second, toxic masculinity is bad for men and boys themselves. Narrow stereotypical norms constrain men’s physical and emotional health and their relations with women, other men, and children."
from:
https://theconversation.com/toxic-masculinity-what-does-it-mean-where-did-it-com |
I dunno if it's this thread or just coincidence but this just popped up on my TL and I did a little chuckle
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| [Redacted] on 19:01 - Feb 21 with 1324 views | victorywilhappen |
| Ndaba on 18:52 - Feb 21 by JackNorthStand |
So which is it that's more harmful to men, muscles or tattoos ? |
[Redacted] | | | |
| Ndaba on 20:18 - Feb 21 with 1162 views | MattinLondon |
| Ndaba on 18:29 - Feb 21 by TresBonne |
Tell me then, would you rather Sam Smith, Cardi B, James Charles etc be wheeled out etc in front of your children? |
As a parent I would much prefer my children to learn from people who are respectful, kind, intelligent and tolerant. If those celebrities you mentioned fall into those categories then I’ll have absolutely no problem with them being ‘wheeled out’ in front of them.
I will have a problem with Tate from having any degree of influence over them. He is a vile, toxic misogynist who is worshipped by insecure idiots, who lack both strength of character and a moral compass. |  | | |
| Ndaba on 23:01 - Feb 21 with 1011 views | SlippinJimmyJuan |
| Ndaba on 20:18 - Feb 21 by MattinLondon |
As a parent I would much prefer my children to learn from people who are respectful, kind, intelligent and tolerant. If those celebrities you mentioned fall into those categories then I’ll have absolutely no problem with them being ‘wheeled out’ in front of them.
I will have a problem with Tate from having any degree of influence over them. He is a vile, toxic misogynist who is worshipped by insecure idiots, who lack both strength of character and a moral compass. |
I dunno what Sam Smith or Cardi B have done.
James Charles has faced a lot of allegations (some of which he has admitted to, lots of it evidenced) of attempted grooming and sexual harassment of underage, heterosexual males.
As you rightly say, Tate is a vile individual who essentially operates a cult/pyramid scheme. It has been a long time since I studied the subject, but I believe Tate must have been a sociology student at some point as he seems to have tapped into some of the things Roger Horrocks talked about in his 1994 work Masculinity in Crisis, even if he has twisted them to suit his goals.
Many jobs traditionally done by boys fresh out of school, often with little to no qualifications, have been taken over by machines. While there is still a gender imbalance in society, even a patriarchal system, working class boys have been neglected for decades. Globalisation has given more opportunities to previously disenfranchised groups, but working class boys have been forgotten and so there is an awful lot of anxiety in a whole generation of young men, quite understandably so.
Enter Tate - a man who presents himself as being from humble beginnings in Luton. Both Tate brothers were clearly hungry for notoriety from a young age, appearing on Big Brother and Shipwrecked respectively. Now, they live lavish lifestyles, boasting about a Bugatti and telling impressionable boys that they too can set themselves free from the matrix, if only they would do exactly as the "Top G" commands. It's Cult 101; prey upon fragile individuals and manipulate their behaviours, make them defend you at every turn, and always, always blame someone else for the leaders' failings. [Post edited 21 Feb 2023 23:03]
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