| Political Compass test 10:38 - Feb 26 with 6815 views | DJR |
I am not sure if this has been posted before but perhaps interesting to see where people come on the left/right and authoritarian/libertarian scale.
I come very near the bottom left hand corner of the graph (which appears after you have taken the test), which makes me both pretty left wing and pretty libertarian.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 10:50]
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| Political Compass test on 19:22 - Feb 26 with 995 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I couldn't see the area where champagne socialists are supposed to be  |  |
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| Political Compass test on 19:46 - Feb 26 with 959 views | sohamblue74 |
Economic -5.4.
Social -4.1.
So yet another lefty libertarian to join the revolution with my twtd comrades... |  | | |
| Political Compass test on 20:29 - Feb 26 with 910 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Political Compass test on 17:46 - Feb 26 by DJR |
I think you make a very good point, although I suppose the restrictions were actually imposed by a supposedly libertarian PM.
I suppose the argument in favour of restrictions is that the situation was not dissimilar in terms of national emergency to a wartime situation, where restrictions are generally accepted.
But I never understood, say, the action taken against the two friends who met up outdoors in Derbyshire. And I especially didn't like the huge fines imposed on individuals (sometimes students) held responsible for parties during lockdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54146746
Perhaps it was necessary to put in place sanctions, otherwise the restrictions might have had limited effect, but it seems to me that in the vast majority of cases a warning would have been the better course of action.
I would just add that it was very difficult to actually know what the law was, because things changed very quickly, and changes to the law were difficult to track down. There was also a confusing overlap with non-enforceable guidance which was often slightly different.
From what I can recall various prominent lawyers criticised this aspect, but the only legal challenge I am aware of failed, even in relation to certain articles of the European Convention of Human Rights.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/analysis/court-of-appeal-refuses-review-co
It has to be borne in mind that all of the offences under the regulations had a reasonable excuse defence, which was not generally known. Indeed, had I been the two women involved, I would have challenged the fixed penalty notice.
I was able to visit my elderly mother throughout the pandemic because I was her main carer, but on the odd occasion I acted in relation to her in possible breach of the regulations (eg. inviting her to our garden on her 93rd birthday), I took the view that I would challenge any fine on the basis of reasonable excuse (I was taking her to exercise in my flat garden in contrast to her far from flat garden located in a very hilly town), and was sure I would win. But I am not sure many people did challenge their fixed penalty notice because they didn't know they could. Indeed, I think Rishi Sunak would have had a good chance of challenging his fixed penalty notice, but presumably didn't want to go down that route. The reasonable excuse defence may also explain some of the cases where Boris Johnson escaped censure.
Incidentally, the reasonable excuse defence was one reason why the Article 11 ECHR challenge failed in the case mentioned in the linked article, as well as the fact that the court took the view that the regulations themselves would be construed in accordance with the Convention. [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 17:58]
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Yeah, I don’t see the contradiction with libertarians accepting lockdown laws - it was an exceptional case with a real risk of death. People in the main could see the need. It’d be very different if measures like that were brought in for trivial reasons. The Derbyshire example reflects poor policing more than government action imo - quite a lot of that went on, possibly because the comms from government were so poor. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 20:37 - Feb 26 with 886 views | positivity |
| Political Compass test on 20:06 - Feb 26 by DJR |
Under Sir Keir, we're now all Tetley's Mild socialists to appeal to the red wall. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 9:14]
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adnam's broadside socialists more fitting for twtd-ers? | |
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| Political Compass test on 20:47 - Feb 26 with 880 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Economic Left/Right: -1.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.56
Can’t really get much more centrist than that… | | | |
| Political Compass test on 20:51 - Feb 26 with 857 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 20:37 - Feb 26 by positivity |
adnam's broadside socialists more fitting for twtd-ers? |
Yes, they'll need to regionalise it, with Newcy Brown socialists in the north east. | | | |
| Political Compass test on 01:59 - Feb 27 with 778 views | Zapers |
| Political Compass test on 20:47 - Feb 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Economic Left/Right: -1.0
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.56
Can’t really get much more centrist than that… |
Pretty much where i was, although slightly more right of centre. | | | |
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| Political Compass test on 08:30 - Feb 27 with 718 views | itfcjoe |
-6.5, -3.28 so left but nearer the middle on Lib/Auth |  |
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| Political Compass test on 09:19 - Feb 27 with 693 views | DJR |
I posted this on the Starmer thread, but for those of you who have not seen it, it would suggest that those on this board mirror many in the country who are increasingly left-wing and liberal, and that Starmer could afford to be a bit more bold, especially on social issues.
https://willjennings.substack.com/p/despite-what-you-may-have-heard-the | | | |
| Political Compass test on 09:27 - Feb 27 with 687 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 09:19 - Feb 27 by DJR |
I posted this on the Starmer thread, but for those of you who have not seen it, it would suggest that those on this board mirror many in the country who are increasingly left-wing and liberal, and that Starmer could afford to be a bit more bold, especially on social issues.
https://willjennings.substack.com/p/despite-what-you-may-have-heard-the |
And for all his faults, I believe Corbyn is responsible for shifting the country's mindset on economic matters.
Up until him, no one in Labour really argued against the austerity that is at the root of all our problems (both in terms of lack of growth and crumbling public services), and which itself perhaps contributed to Brexit.
EDIT: I don't want this thread to turn into a pro- and anti-Corbyn slanging match because up to now it has been very civilised. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 9:45]
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| Political Compass test on 09:31 - Feb 27 with 680 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Political Compass test on 09:19 - Feb 27 by DJR |
I posted this on the Starmer thread, but for those of you who have not seen it, it would suggest that those on this board mirror many in the country who are increasingly left-wing and liberal, and that Starmer could afford to be a bit more bold, especially on social issues.
https://willjennings.substack.com/p/despite-what-you-may-have-heard-the |
There’s been many people on here suggesting that who have been proven wrong over several elections and a Brexit vote.
The general forum is something of an echo chamber and I’d hazard a guess used mainly by educated middle class professionals. I sincerely doubt many people are logging on from their building site/white van.
Whilst I admire your enthusiasm, I feel you are destined to be politically disappointed. | | | |
| Political Compass test on 09:41 - Feb 27 with 671 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 09:31 - Feb 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
There’s been many people on here suggesting that who have been proven wrong over several elections and a Brexit vote.
The general forum is something of an echo chamber and I’d hazard a guess used mainly by educated middle class professionals. I sincerely doubt many people are logging on from their building site/white van.
Whilst I admire your enthusiasm, I feel you are destined to be politically disappointed. |
Of course this board is not representative of society as a whole, as I type this from my villa in Tuscany.
But the article I quoted does seem to reflect society as a whole, because on attitudes to, say, homosexuality have changed immeasurably in the last couple of decades
And I am not saying in any way that there was a majority for the sort of policies that Corbyn advanced, just that there is perhaps an appetite for slightly more radical policies than Starmer is advancing.
But as I said above, I don't really want to turn this thread into a debate about Corbyn (or Starmer) because it's been done to death. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 9:52]
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| Political Compass test on 09:52 - Feb 27 with 657 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Political Compass test on 09:41 - Feb 27 by DJR |
Of course this board is not representative of society as a whole, as I type this from my villa in Tuscany.
But the article I quoted does seem to reflect society as a whole, because on attitudes to, say, homosexuality have changed immeasurably in the last couple of decades
And I am not saying in any way that there was a majority for the sort of policies that Corbyn advanced, just that there is perhaps an appetite for slightly more radical policies than Starmer is advancing.
But as I said above, I don't really want to turn this thread into a debate about Corbyn (or Starmer) because it's been done to death. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 9:52]
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How very bourgeois! | | | |
| Political Compass test on 09:53 - Feb 27 with 656 views | DJR |
It was a joke! | | | |
| Political Compass test on 09:57 - Feb 27 with 637 views | Churchman |
| Political Compass test on 09:27 - Feb 27 by DJR |
And for all his faults, I believe Corbyn is responsible for shifting the country's mindset on economic matters.
Up until him, no one in Labour really argued against the austerity that is at the root of all our problems (both in terms of lack of growth and crumbling public services), and which itself perhaps contributed to Brexit.
EDIT: I don't want this thread to turn into a pro- and anti-Corbyn slanging match because up to now it has been very civilised. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 9:45]
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I’ll have to disagree with you slightly on this. I don’t think Corbyn changed mindsets. You have to remember that Labour left office having been in a long time. They were tired. They’d also lost control of public spending (see note in tray). The Cameron win in I think 2015 was due to it being too close to the Blair/Brown years and an ineffective Labour leader.
The irony was that Alastair Darling’s policy in 2010 to recover the economy was correct (control of spending while investing - the two are not exclusive). As it turned out, for ideological reasons the tories tried to tear up the public sector believing it to consist entirely of wasters. It was ‘the dead hand’ according to Maud.
If you are not in the public sector, it’s near impossible to understand what it is and how it works (I’ve been in both). The tories preyed on this slashing public services and do to this day.
Corbyn polarised opinions and because of what he is raised the discussion, but I don’t think that he changed anything. People were through external and internal factors (erosion of services, Brexit, Scottish Referendum) discussing this stuff.
Corbyn stayed on the fringe of these things and I don’t blame him. I know it’s a hobby horse of mine, but I think it’s Brexit that’s changed mindsets. The effects of it alongside disastrous and economically stupid austerity.
Just a view. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 10:05]
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| Political Compass test on 10:35 - Feb 27 with 618 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 09:57 - Feb 27 by Churchman |
I’ll have to disagree with you slightly on this. I don’t think Corbyn changed mindsets. You have to remember that Labour left office having been in a long time. They were tired. They’d also lost control of public spending (see note in tray). The Cameron win in I think 2015 was due to it being too close to the Blair/Brown years and an ineffective Labour leader.
The irony was that Alastair Darling’s policy in 2010 to recover the economy was correct (control of spending while investing - the two are not exclusive). As it turned out, for ideological reasons the tories tried to tear up the public sector believing it to consist entirely of wasters. It was ‘the dead hand’ according to Maud.
If you are not in the public sector, it’s near impossible to understand what it is and how it works (I’ve been in both). The tories preyed on this slashing public services and do to this day.
Corbyn polarised opinions and because of what he is raised the discussion, but I don’t think that he changed anything. People were through external and internal factors (erosion of services, Brexit, Scottish Referendum) discussing this stuff.
Corbyn stayed on the fringe of these things and I don’t blame him. I know it’s a hobby horse of mine, but I think it’s Brexit that’s changed mindsets. The effects of it alongside disastrous and economically stupid austerity.
Just a view. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 10:05]
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And a very fair view.
I think Darling was sound on this, but the delay in appointing a Labour leader after the election appeared to me to allow the austerity narrative to prevail, and in my view (although I may be misremembering things), I don't think Labour went into the 2015 election seriously challenging the Tory narrative on this or more generally. Take, for example, Rachel Reeve who tried to outdo the Tories on benefits, and nearly led to our disabled membership secretary quitting the party.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-r
I also don't accept that Labour lost control of public spending which was another part of the successful Tory narrative that Labour never really challenged. It was the financial crash of 2007-08 that did for things, as the following graph indicates. The financial crash affected every country but the Tories successfully managed to pin the blame for everything on Labour.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/282841/debt-as-gdp-uk/
As regards whether Corbyn changed mindsets, I remember campaigning on the streets in the 2017 election (and not being a particular fan of his) when his message (given the opportunity during an election campaign to have a fair hearing) palpably hit home with the people I spoke to as the campaign went on, with the result that Labour went from no-hopers to getting a percentage of the vote that Tony Blair only bettered in 1997.
But (as someone who worked in the Cabinet Office, fortunately only until 2011) I agree that Maude was a very nasty piece of work, and I am sure that I read recently that many of his supposed cost savings at the time actually ended up costing more than they saved. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 11:12]
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| Political Compass test on 12:37 - Feb 27 with 556 views | leitrimblue |
Libertarian Socialist on that one. Clearly mellowed in my old age... |  | | |
| Political Compass test on 13:21 - Feb 27 with 539 views | Bluespeed225 |
To the left, which surprised me. We’ll play this at our next dinner party, better than Triv’! | | | |
| Political Compass test on 13:23 - Feb 27 with 535 views | J2BLUE |
| Political Compass test on 13:21 - Feb 27 by Bluespeed225 |
To the left, which surprised me. We’ll play this at our next dinner party, better than Triv’! |
I think it's deliberately skewed that way. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 13:24 - Feb 27 with 532 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 13:21 - Feb 27 by Bluespeed225 |
To the left, which surprised me. We’ll play this at our next dinner party, better than Triv’! |
Maybe you could combine it with a car key party! [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 15:11]
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| Political Compass test on 13:59 - Feb 27 with 514 views | DanTheMan |
| Political Compass test on 12:37 - Feb 27 by leitrimblue |
Libertarian Socialist on that one. Clearly mellowed in my old age... |
That's me too, comrade. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 14:17 - Feb 27 with 478 views | leitrimblue |
| Political Compass test on 13:59 - Feb 27 by DanTheMan |
That's me too, comrade. |
Excellent news comrade. Actually I just checked yer results (above) and they incredibly similar to my own. Just did a quick read and apparently the Levellers (the 17thC ones not the crusty folk band ) are amongst our ideological forebearers.. | | | |
| Political Compass test on 15:13 - Feb 27 with 444 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 13:23 - Feb 27 by J2BLUE |
I think it's deliberately skewed that way. |
As I mentioned earlier, I do wonder if it is more reflective of the US political system where support for, say, free healthcare would make you a communist. | | | |
| Political Compass test on 15:28 - Feb 27 with 432 views | Churchman |
| Political Compass test on 10:35 - Feb 27 by DJR |
And a very fair view.
I think Darling was sound on this, but the delay in appointing a Labour leader after the election appeared to me to allow the austerity narrative to prevail, and in my view (although I may be misremembering things), I don't think Labour went into the 2015 election seriously challenging the Tory narrative on this or more generally. Take, for example, Rachel Reeve who tried to outdo the Tories on benefits, and nearly led to our disabled membership secretary quitting the party.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/12/labour-benefits-tories-labour-r
I also don't accept that Labour lost control of public spending which was another part of the successful Tory narrative that Labour never really challenged. It was the financial crash of 2007-08 that did for things, as the following graph indicates. The financial crash affected every country but the Tories successfully managed to pin the blame for everything on Labour.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/282841/debt-as-gdp-uk/
As regards whether Corbyn changed mindsets, I remember campaigning on the streets in the 2017 election (and not being a particular fan of his) when his message (given the opportunity during an election campaign to have a fair hearing) palpably hit home with the people I spoke to as the campaign went on, with the result that Labour went from no-hopers to getting a percentage of the vote that Tony Blair only bettered in 1997.
But (as someone who worked in the Cabinet Office, fortunately only until 2011) I agree that Maude was a very nasty piece of work, and I am sure that I read recently that many of his supposed cost savings at the time actually ended up costing more than they saved. [Post edited 27 Feb 2023 11:12]
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I thought Alastair D was sound all round - well apart from the earful he gave my new boss 10 mins into his new job one Saturday morning, but that’s another story. Seriously though, I thought him far more able than Brown and his beyond abject successors.
I hear what you say, but given that part of Labour’s policy in 2010 was to reign in public spending, that tells me they’d lost control of it - to a limited extent. We’ve seen what governments can spend if they choose to. I am reminded of Lord Hutton’s interview following the financial crisis in 2008 where he said that the £100bn (I think it was about that) could have been spent several times over to prevent the banks collapsing.
Corbyn in 2017? It has to be born in mind that people were getting wise to the austerity lies, Cameron had run away after calling the disastrous Brexit vote, May called an opportunistic election and then offered a lacklustre, frankly poor campaign. There was also a novelty factor in Corbyn.
I always come back to the cliche governments lose elections, opposition don’t win them. That’s why Starmer is keeping quiet and leaving the tories to knife themselves into oblivion - hopefully! | | | |
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