| Political Compass test 10:38 - Feb 26 with 6817 views | DJR |
I am not sure if this has been posted before but perhaps interesting to see where people come on the left/right and authoritarian/libertarian scale.
I come very near the bottom left hand corner of the graph (which appears after you have taken the test), which makes me both pretty left wing and pretty libertarian.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 10:50]
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| Political Compass test on 16:38 - Feb 26 with 932 views | bluelagos |
What I don't get is how come so many libertarians were so quick to not just accept authoritarian restrictions during COVID (as I did) but to become cheers leaders for the over zealous policing that sometimes accompanied it?
We had posters supporting the police giving 10k fines to nurses for standing at protests in a socially distanced manner outside...
We had posters who supported the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil...
How shallow are so many beliefs that we would suspend them all because we felt so scared of a virus that we supported inhumane rules such as limiting home care visits for months on end...
Could go on, but I do wonder how libertarian people are when they so easily watch their rights being taken away with barely a whimper, indeed outright hostility was sometimes shown towards anyone questioning the restrictions we all faced...
Confused! |  |
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| Political Compass test on 16:44 - Feb 26 with 904 views | noggin |
Has that old rightie Harry posted his results yet? |  |
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| Political Compass test on 16:44 - Feb 26 with 894 views | Ryorry |
| Political Compass test on 16:38 - Feb 26 by bluelagos |
What I don't get is how come so many libertarians were so quick to not just accept authoritarian restrictions during COVID (as I did) but to become cheers leaders for the over zealous policing that sometimes accompanied it?
We had posters supporting the police giving 10k fines to nurses for standing at protests in a socially distanced manner outside...
We had posters who supported the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil...
How shallow are so many beliefs that we would suspend them all because we felt so scared of a virus that we supported inhumane rules such as limiting home care visits for months on end...
Could go on, but I do wonder how libertarian people are when they so easily watch their rights being taken away with barely a whimper, indeed outright hostility was sometimes shown towards anyone questioning the restrictions we all faced...
Confused! |
"For the greater good" innit - see 'Utilitarianism' (proponents John Stuart Mill & Jeremy Bentham) -
"That property in any object, whereby it tends to produce benefit, advantage, pleasure, good, or happiness ... [or] to prevent the happening of mischief, pain, evil, or unhappiness to the party whose interest is considered." (Wiki) |  |
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| Political Compass test on 16:52 - Feb 26 with 855 views | J2BLUE |
| Political Compass test on 16:38 - Feb 26 by bluelagos |
What I don't get is how come so many libertarians were so quick to not just accept authoritarian restrictions during COVID (as I did) but to become cheers leaders for the over zealous policing that sometimes accompanied it?
We had posters supporting the police giving 10k fines to nurses for standing at protests in a socially distanced manner outside...
We had posters who supported the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil...
How shallow are so many beliefs that we would suspend them all because we felt so scared of a virus that we supported inhumane rules such as limiting home care visits for months on end...
Could go on, but I do wonder how libertarian people are when they so easily watch their rights being taken away with barely a whimper, indeed outright hostility was sometimes shown towards anyone questioning the restrictions we all faced...
Confused! |
You really need to get over covid. Name one poster who has posted their stats who supported 10k fines for nurses.
Most people wanted common sense rules and those being stupid to be punished. Some people did monitor how often people exercised and stupid things like that but it was the people taking the piss that most wanted punished. The people having parties and helping to make a bad situation worse. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 17:09 - Feb 26 with 824 views | bluelagos |
| Political Compass test on 16:52 - Feb 26 by J2BLUE |
You really need to get over covid. Name one poster who has posted their stats who supported 10k fines for nurses.
Most people wanted common sense rules and those being stupid to be punished. Some people did monitor how often people exercised and stupid things like that but it was the people taking the piss that most wanted punished. The people having parties and helping to make a bad situation worse. |
Easy tiger, there were plenty who supported tough policing who wouldnt ordinarily,
The question/challenge is valid imho, how easily we accepted restrictions and how easily people went to the point of reporting neighbours etc.
Am not going to dig out old threads, but we had a guy whose neoghbour was working on cars and numerous board regulars encouraged him to report the neighbour to the police. (He did and the police ruled it was a business and he had every right to be working).
That is just one example of how ordinary people went more than a bit loopy (to be polite).
Letting it go isnt what its about, it's interesting why people behaved as tbey did - thats what I find facinating. | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:18 - Feb 26 with 779 views | Herbivore |
| Political Compass test on 16:21 - Feb 26 by Trequartista |
Well not that type of lib. I mean as opposed to authoritarian. Example - if I may be so bold - I don't think you think we should all carry id cards. (Correct me if i'm wrong). The liberal left do, a libertarian doesn't. I hate these labels. [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 16:22]
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The liberal left support compulsory ID cards? Not sure about that, speaking as a member of the liberal left. I expect a few people have said that if we're going to be made to show ID to vote then there should be free national ID cards but that's not the same thing. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 17:18 - Feb 26 with 781 views | Dubtractor |
| Political Compass test on 13:45 - Feb 26 by Trequartista |
I am, apparently, libertarian left, three blocks in, four blocks down. I suppose that's about where I would put myself if i was forced to choose.
The lines between libertarian and authoritarian seem to be more blurred nowadays, so I wonder how I would be able to manipulate my answers to those questions to produce an authoritarian left result.
The most important point is that I think its a bad thing to put yourself into teams and wear the badge. Answer each question with a free mind, not with the dogma of the group you think you should belong to, and care not where that puts you. |
I think it's fine to acknowledge political and social differences in people, whats important to me is that having different views doesn't make someone your enemy, so I agree fully with your teams point. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 17:21 - Feb 26 with 774 views | J2BLUE |
| Political Compass test on 17:09 - Feb 26 by bluelagos |
Easy tiger, there were plenty who supported tough policing who wouldnt ordinarily,
The question/challenge is valid imho, how easily we accepted restrictions and how easily people went to the point of reporting neighbours etc.
Am not going to dig out old threads, but we had a guy whose neoghbour was working on cars and numerous board regulars encouraged him to report the neighbour to the police. (He did and the police ruled it was a business and he had every right to be working).
That is just one example of how ordinary people went more than a bit loopy (to be polite).
Letting it go isnt what its about, it's interesting why people behaved as tbey did - thats what I find facinating. |
Fear and wanting it to be over. I think everyone was worried it would get worse. At the time with everything shutting down it was a very worrying time. I do think people would react differently to future challenges. People didn't know how to handle that situation.
If that is the whole story about the cars then that is ridiculous. I'm sure 99% of people broke the rules when it came to stupid restrictions on being outdoors etc.
I was all for hammering people putting others in danger to be quite honest. £10,000 fine for having a party? No problem. A fine for walking to someone's house and sitting talking to them in the garden from five metres away? That would be silly.
I do think a lot of the restrictions were made knowing people would push them. It's like a diet book which says you can't have fruit (a low carb book). People would push the rules and have some fruit. No harm done. If it says you can have fruit, people push the rules and start downing orange juice all day. Not the best analogy but hopefully it makes sense. | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:22 - Feb 26 with 773 views | Mullet |
Same.
Economically Left -9
Social Libertarian -6.36 |  |
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| Political Compass test on 17:24 - Feb 26 with 751 views | Mullet |
| Political Compass test on 17:18 - Feb 26 by Dubtractor |
I think it's fine to acknowledge political and social differences in people, whats important to me is that having different views doesn't make someone your enemy, so I agree fully with your teams point. |
Yes it does! | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:25 - Feb 26 with 745 views | Rob88 |
Some questions are bonkers! |  | | |
| Political Compass test on 17:30 - Feb 26 with 696 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
No convinced by this, no agnostic option for tbe answers and a lot political ground that the questions don't touch.
Anyway according to this I'm a centre left libertarian, just. |  |
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| Political Compass test on 17:43 - Feb 26 with 671 views | bluelagos |
| Political Compass test on 17:21 - Feb 26 by J2BLUE |
Fear and wanting it to be over. I think everyone was worried it would get worse. At the time with everything shutting down it was a very worrying time. I do think people would react differently to future challenges. People didn't know how to handle that situation.
If that is the whole story about the cars then that is ridiculous. I'm sure 99% of people broke the rules when it came to stupid restrictions on being outdoors etc.
I was all for hammering people putting others in danger to be quite honest. £10,000 fine for having a party? No problem. A fine for walking to someone's house and sitting talking to them in the garden from five metres away? That would be silly.
I do think a lot of the restrictions were made knowing people would push them. It's like a diet book which says you can't have fruit (a low carb book). People would push the rules and have some fruit. No harm done. If it says you can have fruit, people push the rules and start downing orange juice all day. Not the best analogy but hopefully it makes sense. |
Fair points all.
One thing that was rarely picked up was how was the adherance to the rules was far greater than the govt/modellers/behaviour scientists expected.
The rules as set, we were far more willing to follow them - and thats not bad, the lockdowns meant many lives saved so thats a positive. | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:44 - Feb 26 with 667 views | Dubtractor |
| Political Compass test on 17:24 - Feb 26 by Mullet |
Yes it does! |
I'm starting a 'hug a tory' campaign. | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:45 - Feb 26 with 656 views | Mullet |
| Political Compass test on 17:44 - Feb 26 by Dubtractor |
I'm starting a 'hug a tory' campaign. |
After you old boy
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| Political Compass test on 17:46 - Feb 26 with 642 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 16:38 - Feb 26 by bluelagos |
What I don't get is how come so many libertarians were so quick to not just accept authoritarian restrictions during COVID (as I did) but to become cheers leaders for the over zealous policing that sometimes accompanied it?
We had posters supporting the police giving 10k fines to nurses for standing at protests in a socially distanced manner outside...
We had posters who supported the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil...
How shallow are so many beliefs that we would suspend them all because we felt so scared of a virus that we supported inhumane rules such as limiting home care visits for months on end...
Could go on, but I do wonder how libertarian people are when they so easily watch their rights being taken away with barely a whimper, indeed outright hostility was sometimes shown towards anyone questioning the restrictions we all faced...
Confused! |
I think you make a very good point, although I suppose the restrictions were actually imposed by a supposedly libertarian PM.
I suppose the argument in favour of restrictions is that the situation was not dissimilar in terms of national emergency to a wartime situation, where restrictions are generally accepted.
But I never understood, say, the action taken against the two friends who met up outdoors in Derbyshire. And I especially didn't like the huge fines imposed on individuals (sometimes students) held responsible for parties during lockdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54146746
Perhaps it was necessary to put in place sanctions, otherwise the restrictions might have had limited effect, but it seems to me that in the vast majority of cases a warning would have been the better course of action.
I would just add that it was very difficult to actually know what the law was, because things changed very quickly, and changes to the law were difficult to track down. There was also a confusing overlap with non-enforceable guidance which was often slightly different.
From what I can recall various prominent lawyers criticised this aspect, but the only legal challenge I am aware of failed, even in relation to certain articles of the European Convention of Human Rights.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/analysis/court-of-appeal-refuses-review-co
It has to be borne in mind that all of the offences under the regulations had a reasonable excuse defence, which was not generally known. Indeed, had I been the two women involved, I would have challenged the fixed penalty notice.
I was able to visit my elderly mother throughout the pandemic because I was her main carer, but on the odd occasion I acted in relation to her in possible breach of the regulations (eg. inviting her to our garden on her 93rd birthday), I took the view that I would challenge any fine on the basis of reasonable excuse (I was taking her to exercise in my flat garden in contrast to her far from flat garden located in a very hilly town), and was sure I would win. But I am not sure many people did challenge their fixed penalty notice because they didn't know they could. Indeed, I think Rishi Sunak would have had a good chance of challenging his fixed penalty notice, but presumably didn't want to go down that route. The reasonable excuse defence may also explain some of the cases where Boris Johnson escaped censure.
Incidentally, the reasonable excuse defence was one reason why the Article 11 ECHR challenge failed in the case mentioned in the linked article, as well as the fact that the court took the view that the regulations themselves would be construed in accordance with the Convention. [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 17:58]
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| Political Compass test on 17:56 - Feb 26 with 598 views | Ryorry |
| Political Compass test on 17:46 - Feb 26 by DJR |
I think you make a very good point, although I suppose the restrictions were actually imposed by a supposedly libertarian PM.
I suppose the argument in favour of restrictions is that the situation was not dissimilar in terms of national emergency to a wartime situation, where restrictions are generally accepted.
But I never understood, say, the action taken against the two friends who met up outdoors in Derbyshire. And I especially didn't like the huge fines imposed on individuals (sometimes students) held responsible for parties during lockdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54146746
Perhaps it was necessary to put in place sanctions, otherwise the restrictions might have had limited effect, but it seems to me that in the vast majority of cases a warning would have been the better course of action.
I would just add that it was very difficult to actually know what the law was, because things changed very quickly, and changes to the law were difficult to track down. There was also a confusing overlap with non-enforceable guidance which was often slightly different.
From what I can recall various prominent lawyers criticised this aspect, but the only legal challenge I am aware of failed, even in relation to certain articles of the European Convention of Human Rights.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/analysis/court-of-appeal-refuses-review-co
It has to be borne in mind that all of the offences under the regulations had a reasonable excuse defence, which was not generally known. Indeed, had I been the two women involved, I would have challenged the fixed penalty notice.
I was able to visit my elderly mother throughout the pandemic because I was her main carer, but on the odd occasion I acted in relation to her in possible breach of the regulations (eg. inviting her to our garden on her 93rd birthday), I took the view that I would challenge any fine on the basis of reasonable excuse (I was taking her to exercise in my flat garden in contrast to her far from flat garden located in a very hilly town), and was sure I would win. But I am not sure many people did challenge their fixed penalty notice because they didn't know they could. Indeed, I think Rishi Sunak would have had a good chance of challenging his fixed penalty notice, but presumably didn't want to go down that route. The reasonable excuse defence may also explain some of the cases where Boris Johnson escaped censure.
Incidentally, the reasonable excuse defence was one reason why the Article 11 ECHR challenge failed in the case mentioned in the linked article, as well as the fact that the court took the view that the regulations themselves would be construed in accordance with the Convention. [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 17:58]
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"It has to be borne in mind that all of the offences under the regulations had a reasonable excuse defence, which was not generally known."
Interesting - I always wondered what would happen if I'd got stopped when on a couple of occasions I had to drive my dog to his vet (it's 12 miles away & the nearest one). "Medical" appointments were exempt, but 'veterinarian' ones were never mentioned, though I assumed/hoped common sense would prevail. | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:59 - Feb 26 with 570 views | positivity |
i come out as marxist on that one, interesting! | |
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| Political Compass test on 17:59 - Feb 26 with 561 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 17:56 - Feb 26 by Ryorry |
"It has to be borne in mind that all of the offences under the regulations had a reasonable excuse defence, which was not generally known."
Interesting - I always wondered what would happen if I'd got stopped when on a couple of occasions I had to drive my dog to his vet (it's 12 miles away & the nearest one). "Medical" appointments were exempt, but 'veterinarian' ones were never mentioned, though I assumed/hoped common sense would prevail. |
I am sure that is a more than a reasonable excuse. [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 18:01]
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| Political Compass test on 18:00 - Feb 26 with 557 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 17:59 - Feb 26 by positivity |
i come out as marxist on that one, interesting! |
What does that make some of the rest of us? | | | |
| Political Compass test on 18:03 - Feb 26 with 538 views | bluelagos |
| Political Compass test on 17:46 - Feb 26 by DJR |
I think you make a very good point, although I suppose the restrictions were actually imposed by a supposedly libertarian PM.
I suppose the argument in favour of restrictions is that the situation was not dissimilar in terms of national emergency to a wartime situation, where restrictions are generally accepted.
But I never understood, say, the action taken against the two friends who met up outdoors in Derbyshire. And I especially didn't like the huge fines imposed on individuals (sometimes students) held responsible for parties during lockdown.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-54146746
Perhaps it was necessary to put in place sanctions, otherwise the restrictions might have had limited effect, but it seems to me that in the vast majority of cases a warning would have been the better course of action.
I would just add that it was very difficult to actually know what the law was, because things changed very quickly, and changes to the law were difficult to track down. There was also a confusing overlap with non-enforceable guidance which was often slightly different.
From what I can recall various prominent lawyers criticised this aspect, but the only legal challenge I am aware of failed, even in relation to certain articles of the European Convention of Human Rights.
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/analysis/court-of-appeal-refuses-review-co
It has to be borne in mind that all of the offences under the regulations had a reasonable excuse defence, which was not generally known. Indeed, had I been the two women involved, I would have challenged the fixed penalty notice.
I was able to visit my elderly mother throughout the pandemic because I was her main carer, but on the odd occasion I acted in relation to her in possible breach of the regulations (eg. inviting her to our garden on her 93rd birthday), I took the view that I would challenge any fine on the basis of reasonable excuse (I was taking her to exercise in my flat garden in contrast to her far from flat garden located in a very hilly town), and was sure I would win. But I am not sure many people did challenge their fixed penalty notice because they didn't know they could. Indeed, I think Rishi Sunak would have had a good chance of challenging his fixed penalty notice, but presumably didn't want to go down that route. The reasonable excuse defence may also explain some of the cases where Boris Johnson escaped censure.
Incidentally, the reasonable excuse defence was one reason why the Article 11 ECHR challenge failed in the case mentioned in the linked article, as well as the fact that the court took the view that the regulations themselves would be construed in accordance with the Convention. [Post edited 26 Feb 2023 17:58]
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On one level, I always felt relaxed that the rules brought in would be removed, Johnson being a libertarian and all. I shudder to think how life under a PM Pritti or Braverman would have gone!
J2 makes the point that people wouldnt be so accomodating if it happened again, but I'd like to think we would also ensure any restrictions were more appropriate. E.g, Outside visits to elderly relatives in care homes being facitated wherever possible.
And on another level, as irritating as the conspiracy loons are, we still seem to have far less than America or Aus.
I think looking back we got far more right than we did wrong, but that's not to say we can't learn lessons. Defo interesting times if still too recent to fully step back and analyse. | |
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| Political Compass test on 18:07 - Feb 26 with 511 views | Ryorry |
| Political Compass test on 17:59 - Feb 26 by positivity |
i come out as marxist on that one, interesting! |
Anyone else wondering if DK will take the test?  | |
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| Political Compass test on 18:08 - Feb 26 with 507 views | DJR |
| Political Compass test on 18:03 - Feb 26 by bluelagos |
On one level, I always felt relaxed that the rules brought in would be removed, Johnson being a libertarian and all. I shudder to think how life under a PM Pritti or Braverman would have gone!
J2 makes the point that people wouldnt be so accomodating if it happened again, but I'd like to think we would also ensure any restrictions were more appropriate. E.g, Outside visits to elderly relatives in care homes being facitated wherever possible.
And on another level, as irritating as the conspiracy loons are, we still seem to have far less than America or Aus.
I think looking back we got far more right than we did wrong, but that's not to say we can't learn lessons. Defo interesting times if still too recent to fully step back and analyse. |
You make some good points. | | | |
| Political Compass test on 18:15 - Feb 26 with 498 views | positivity |
| Political Compass test on 18:00 - Feb 26 by DJR |
What does that make some of the rest of us? |
quite, guess i'd be a pragmatic, peace-loving, forgiving marxist which seems like a bit of a contradiction in terms! | |
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| Political Compass test on 18:57 - Feb 26 with 444 views | Guthrum |
| Political Compass test on 16:38 - Feb 26 by bluelagos |
What I don't get is how come so many libertarians were so quick to not just accept authoritarian restrictions during COVID (as I did) but to become cheers leaders for the over zealous policing that sometimes accompanied it?
We had posters supporting the police giving 10k fines to nurses for standing at protests in a socially distanced manner outside...
We had posters who supported the policing of the Sarah Everard vigil...
How shallow are so many beliefs that we would suspend them all because we felt so scared of a virus that we supported inhumane rules such as limiting home care visits for months on end...
Could go on, but I do wonder how libertarian people are when they so easily watch their rights being taken away with barely a whimper, indeed outright hostility was sometimes shown towards anyone questioning the restrictions we all faced...
Confused! |
It depends whether a mild libertarian recognises something like a global pandemic as such a threat to humanity, that they might be prepared to temporarily give up some civil rights for the good of society as a whole. Whether they trust the government to give back those rights afterwards.
Much like WWII, when a relatively liberal society gave up a lot of their rights in order to defeat a more serious threat.
Not to mention that enforcement was really very mild compared with some things on the table which came quite close to being enacted. Or even with some of the lockdowns imposed in places like Spain or China. |  |
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