| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. 17:17 - Jun 4 with 7224 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/04/blocking-jamie-driscoll-as-labo
'He said it was “Orwellian language” to suggest that talking to a controversial figure automatically means you shared their views. “I shared a platform with [Conservative Tees Valley mayor] Ben Houchen the other week. Does that make me a Tory?” he said.
He contrasted his own treatment with that of Christian Wakeford, the MP for Bury South in Greater Manchester, who defected from the Conservatives last year “and was welcomed with open arms by the Labour party, despite voting for many terrible Tory policies”.'
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:22 - Jun 4 with 3421 views | GlasgowBlue |
There is a massive difference between sharing a platform with one of your political opponents (Tory Tees Valley Mayor) and sharing a platform with a vile anti semite who has been expelled from your political party for racism.
Politicians from both sides often work together and share platforms. Most decent people refrain from sharing platforms with expelled racists. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 17:23]
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:24 - Jun 4 with 3407 views | Mullet |
The fact Loach had been kicked out is more relevant isn't it?
That makes his quote there read entirely differently and without the same logic when you add that context. |  |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:28 - Jun 4 with 3395 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:22 - Jun 4 by GlasgowBlue |
There is a massive difference between sharing a platform with one of your political opponents (Tory Tees Valley Mayor) and sharing a platform with a vile anti semite who has been expelled from your political party for racism.
Politicians from both sides often work together and share platforms. Most decent people refrain from sharing platforms with expelled racists. [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 17:23]
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What did Ken Loach say?
And anyway let's not pretend this is why this fella won't be continuing in his role as mayor. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:30 - Jun 4 with 3379 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:24 - Jun 4 by Mullet |
The fact Loach had been kicked out is more relevant isn't it?
That makes his quote there read entirely differently and without the same logic when you add that context. |
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/14/director-ken-loach-expelled-lab
Looks like he just refused to disown others and called a witch hunt a witch hunt. Curious to know what he said specifically that got him expelled. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:34 - Jun 4 with 3356 views | Mullet |
I dunno, but that doesn't matter. The Labour party has made that decision so it stands to reason they would then hold this view.
Just because you don't like it, or disagree with it, that doesn't stop your OP being rather dishonest or at best missing a crucial piece of information. Even if they are wrong to have expelled Loach, they have clearly stuck to their decision and been consistent here.
If they hadn't you'd be arguing they are weak and indecisive it seems. This isn;t the gotcha you seem to be framing it as at all. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:51 - Jun 4 with 3312 views | lowhouseblue |
couldn't they have punished him by making him watch loach's films? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:56 - Jun 4 with 3287 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:51 - Jun 4 by lowhouseblue |
couldn't they have punished him by making him watch loach's films? |
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ken-loach-labour-jewish-labour-movement-je
'Following the comments, Mr Driscoll said: “Under my leadership the North of Tyne has adopted the IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) definition of antisemitism and references all the examples. We were the first combined authority to work with the EHRC. I work with the Jewish Leadership Council and visit local synagogues.
“I’ve taken part in JLM training. The NEC said there was no suggestion of antisemitism against me.”
Being blocked from running for the new mayoral authority adds to the list of Labour politicians on the left who have lost out under the new leadership.'
You're happy with this then Lowhouse? | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:59 - Jun 4 with 3262 views | lowhouseblue |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:56 - Jun 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ken-loach-labour-jewish-labour-movement-je
'Following the comments, Mr Driscoll said: “Under my leadership the North of Tyne has adopted the IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) definition of antisemitism and references all the examples. We were the first combined authority to work with the EHRC. I work with the Jewish Leadership Council and visit local synagogues.
“I’ve taken part in JLM training. The NEC said there was no suggestion of antisemitism against me.”
Being blocked from running for the new mayoral authority adds to the list of Labour politicians on the left who have lost out under the new leadership.'
You're happy with this then Lowhouse? |
i only commented on loach's films so your reply is reading quite a lot into that.
but the party has always had rules about members promoting /supporting others who have been expelled. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:02 - Jun 4 with 3242 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:34 - Jun 4 by Mullet |
I dunno, but that doesn't matter. The Labour party has made that decision so it stands to reason they would then hold this view.
Just because you don't like it, or disagree with it, that doesn't stop your OP being rather dishonest or at best missing a crucial piece of information. Even if they are wrong to have expelled Loach, they have clearly stuck to their decision and been consistent here.
If they hadn't you'd be arguing they are weak and indecisive it seems. This isn;t the gotcha you seem to be framing it as at all. |
The point of the op is to further highlight the lengths that new, new Conserva..... Labour will go to in order to exclude anybody remotely progressive from their ranks. Never vote Conservative. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:04 - Jun 4 with 3228 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:59 - Jun 4 by lowhouseblue |
i only commented on loach's films so your reply is reading quite a lot into that.
but the party has always had rules about members promoting /supporting others who have been expelled. |
That's a yes then.....horribly left wing wasn't he! | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:04 - Jun 4 with 3224 views | GlasgowBlue |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:56 - Jun 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ken-loach-labour-jewish-labour-movement-je
'Following the comments, Mr Driscoll said: “Under my leadership the North of Tyne has adopted the IHRA (International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance) definition of antisemitism and references all the examples. We were the first combined authority to work with the EHRC. I work with the Jewish Leadership Council and visit local synagogues.
“I’ve taken part in JLM training. The NEC said there was no suggestion of antisemitism against me.”
Being blocked from running for the new mayoral authority adds to the list of Labour politicians on the left who have lost out under the new leadership.'
You're happy with this then Lowhouse? |
Where has anyone even suggested that Mr Driscoll is an anti semite? | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:14 - Jun 4 with 3206 views | DJR |
These comments from a couple of Tories are interesting.
Former levelling up secretary Simon Clarke said he felt “very sorry” for the mayor whom he described as “knowledgeable, passionate about the NE and refreshingly non-partisan”.
Nadhim Zahawi said having worked with Driscoll while he was vaccines minister, Driscoll “was always professional and didn’t play politics, just wanted to protect the people he represents”.
The former chancellor added: “Sorry to hear this Jamie. You are a good man. Stay strong.” |  | | |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:15 - Jun 4 with 3194 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:04 - Jun 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Where has anyone even suggested that Mr Driscoll is an anti semite? |
I'm still waiting for you to explain how Ken Loach is....."a vile antisemite and racist"
Wonder why he was deselected then! [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 18:17]
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 07:57 - Jun 5 with 2803 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:15 - Jun 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I'm still waiting for you to explain how Ken Loach is....."a vile antisemite and racist"
Wonder why he was deselected then! [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 18:17]
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“Labour MPs who joined the demonstration against anti-Semitism in the party should be kicked out, according to pro-Jeremy Corbyn filmmaker Ken Loach.
The veteran director accused attendees of playing “dirty tricks” and accused the Israeli government of “infiltrating and undermining the Labour left”.
Here ya go! Another swivel eyed loon. |  | | |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 08:29 - Jun 5 with 2739 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 07:57 - Jun 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“Labour MPs who joined the demonstration against anti-Semitism in the party should be kicked out, according to pro-Jeremy Corbyn filmmaker Ken Loach.
The veteran director accused attendees of playing “dirty tricks” and accused the Israeli government of “infiltrating and undermining the Labour left”.
Here ya go! Another swivel eyed loon. |
Can you provide a link so that I can read the full quotes please. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 08:49 - Jun 5 with 2697 views | GlasgowBlue |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 18:15 - Jun 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I'm still waiting for you to explain how Ken Loach is....."a vile antisemite and racist"
Wonder why he was deselected then! [Post edited 4 Jun 2023 18:17]
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OK.
1. In 2009 the EU's Fundamental Rights Agency reported an increase in antisemitism in Europe. Loach said this antisemitism was "understandable" given Israel's actions & called the report a "red herring" designed to "distract attention" from Israel.
That is anti semitic under the IHRA definition, with the example of "Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
If somebody said that Islamophobia was understandable given the actions of ISIS, they would quite rightly be called a racist.
2. In 2017 Loach was asked whether it was unacceptable to debate whether the Holocaust happened or not. "History is there for us all to discuss" was his answer before going on another anti Israel rant.
3.In another interview he said there is "no validity" to stories of antisemitism in Labour and declared that progressive Jews, including Labour members of parliament, were inventing anti-Semitic incidents for political purposes, to tarnish Jeremy Corbyn.
Loach’s insinuation that Jews fabricate their own oppression for personal gain is a centuries old anti semitic trope.
4. In 1987 Loach directed a play called Perdition that alleged Zionist/Nazi collaboration. It was denounced as inaccurate by leading historians and as antisemitic by many in the Jewish community.
The play was cancelled and Loach said: “I hadn’t tangled with the Zionist lobby before. What is amazing is the strength & organisation & power of their lobby.”
Ah, the old Jewish lobby trope.
I’m sure you’ll excuse and defend sone or all of that. If not, then no doubt [redacted] will step in for you. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:10]
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 09:20 - Jun 5 with 2653 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Thanks to you and Dan for the links and as I suspected there's nothing too controversial there. The first one I can understand his sentiments as they accurately describe the position of of the PLP at the time and he cools his reaction to that particular protest fairly quickly.The second partial quote you gave, which I was most interested in looks like an accurate summation of a documentary. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 09:23 - Jun 5 with 2639 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 08:49 - Jun 5 by GlasgowBlue |
OK.
1. In 2009 the EU's Fundamental Rights Agency reported an increase in antisemitism in Europe. Loach said this antisemitism was "understandable" given Israel's actions & called the report a "red herring" designed to "distract attention" from Israel.
That is anti semitic under the IHRA definition, with the example of "Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
If somebody said that Islamophobia was understandable given the actions of ISIS, they would quite rightly be called a racist.
2. In 2017 Loach was asked whether it was unacceptable to debate whether the Holocaust happened or not. "History is there for us all to discuss" was his answer before going on another anti Israel rant.
3.In another interview he said there is "no validity" to stories of antisemitism in Labour and declared that progressive Jews, including Labour members of parliament, were inventing anti-Semitic incidents for political purposes, to tarnish Jeremy Corbyn.
Loach’s insinuation that Jews fabricate their own oppression for personal gain is a centuries old anti semitic trope.
4. In 1987 Loach directed a play called Perdition that alleged Zionist/Nazi collaboration. It was denounced as inaccurate by leading historians and as antisemitic by many in the Jewish community.
The play was cancelled and Loach said: “I hadn’t tangled with the Zionist lobby before. What is amazing is the strength & organisation & power of their lobby.”
Ah, the old Jewish lobby trope.
I’m sure you’ll excuse and defend sone or all of that. If not, then no doubt [redacted] will step in for you. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:10]
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Only time for a quick scan but for starters that is some very selective use of quotation marks and no links. | |
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| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 09:36 - Jun 5 with 2599 views | Blueschev |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 08:49 - Jun 5 by GlasgowBlue |
OK.
1. In 2009 the EU's Fundamental Rights Agency reported an increase in antisemitism in Europe. Loach said this antisemitism was "understandable" given Israel's actions & called the report a "red herring" designed to "distract attention" from Israel.
That is anti semitic under the IHRA definition, with the example of "Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
If somebody said that Islamophobia was understandable given the actions of ISIS, they would quite rightly be called a racist.
2. In 2017 Loach was asked whether it was unacceptable to debate whether the Holocaust happened or not. "History is there for us all to discuss" was his answer before going on another anti Israel rant.
3.In another interview he said there is "no validity" to stories of antisemitism in Labour and declared that progressive Jews, including Labour members of parliament, were inventing anti-Semitic incidents for political purposes, to tarnish Jeremy Corbyn.
Loach’s insinuation that Jews fabricate their own oppression for personal gain is a centuries old anti semitic trope.
4. In 1987 Loach directed a play called Perdition that alleged Zionist/Nazi collaboration. It was denounced as inaccurate by leading historians and as antisemitic by many in the Jewish community.
The play was cancelled and Loach said: “I hadn’t tangled with the Zionist lobby before. What is amazing is the strength & organisation & power of their lobby.”
Ah, the old Jewish lobby trope.
I’m sure you’ll excuse and defend sone or all of that. If not, then no doubt [redacted] will step in for you. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 9:10]
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Doesn't point 4 fall foul to the IHRA definition by insinuating Jews and Zionists are one and the same? |  | | |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 10:53 - Jun 5 with 2511 views | leitrimblue |
Spent bit of time with Loach a few years ago when he was filming Jimmy's Hall in Leitrim. Top bloke, much quieter then I expected |  | | |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 11:44 - Jun 5 with 2390 views | Blueschev |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 17:59 - Jun 4 by lowhouseblue |
i only commented on loach's films so your reply is reading quite a lot into that.
but the party has always had rules about members promoting /supporting others who have been expelled. |
I wounder how many potential candidates will be barred from standing for sharing a platform with Alistair Campbell? | | | |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 12:47 - Jun 5 with 2298 views | Clapham_Junction |
| For the crime of talking to Ken Loach. on 09:36 - Jun 5 by Blueschev |
Doesn't point 4 fall foul to the IHRA definition by insinuating Jews and Zionists are one and the same? |
The events described in the play (the question of whether Rezső Kasztner collaborated with the Nazis) are still debated. While Kasztner was initially convicted, and then later cleared by courts in Israel, a recently-published book came to the conclusion that he did (despite its author setting out to "prove Kasztner's innocence").
This conclusion doesn't seem particularly controversial and was covered in the Israeli and Jewish press in the UK:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/on-quest-to-clear-kasztner-historian-shocked-to-pr
https://www.thejc.com/culture/books/saviour-or-collaborator-1.430605
The most relevant part of the latter piece is:
For decades, critics of Kasztner have been swatted by the Jewish establishment, which generally has given precedence to emotion over rational, evidence-based historical research. For all their virtues and vices, Hannah Arendt (Eichmann in Jerusalem), Ben Hecht (Perfidy) and Jim Allen (Perdition) were dismissed on other than historical grounds: Arendt as renegade Jew, Hecht as pro-Menachem Begin rightist, and Allen as anti-Zionist, antisemitic leftist. [Post edited 5 Jun 2023 12:47]
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