| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:54 - Jul 2 with 1904 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:31 - Jul 2 by Blueschev |
Well according to Campbell's own claims, his expulsion is irrelevant to the discussion regarding Lawson. |
Both Campbell's views on his expulsion and Lawson's views on his disciplinary hearing (which he misleading claimed in the Guardian that he had been expelled when he hadn't) are completely irrelevant to this discussion.
The only thing that is relevant is that Labour, under Corbyn, expelled Campbell for the same reason (support for another political party or candidate is incompatible with party membership) that they are taking action against Lawson.
This busts the theory that this is an example of a Strmer purge. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:00]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:55 - Jul 2 with 1903 views | Blueschev |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 10:35 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm confused now. Do you accept Lawson broke Labour Party rules by endorsing a Lib/Green alliance to unseat a sitting Labour councillor? |
Did he endorse either party, or point to their strategy for that particular election being a better path to a more progressive politics in his opinion? |  | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:58 - Jul 2 with 1892 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 10:35 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm confused now. Do you accept Lawson broke Labour Party rules by endorsing a Lib/Green alliance to unseat a sitting Labour councillor? |
To be honest, I have no idea and don't really care, because it doesn't detract from what is going on, which is much more widespread and factional than anything I can ever remember before in the Labour Party.
But don't just take my word, see from my posts what Michael Crick and John Cruddas have said about what is going on.
At the end of the day, I believe in liberal values, and a plurality of views in parties, which is why I objected to Johnson deselecting decent MPs (such as Dominic Grieve) from the party, just as I object to what is currently going on in the Labour Party.
But we live in an increasingly illiberal world, where, for example, people thought it proper to overturn the Brexit vote or mock the intelligence of Brexiteers. And people such as this are now in control of the Labour Party.
Interestingly though, the fact that this story has made it into the Observer makes me wonder if even some in the centre think that things are going too far. And it mustn't be forgotten that the Observer (like the Guardian) is a Liberal paper. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:50]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:58 - Jul 2 with 1892 views | Blueschev |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:54 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Both Campbell's views on his expulsion and Lawson's views on his disciplinary hearing (which he misleading claimed in the Guardian that he had been expelled when he hadn't) are completely irrelevant to this discussion.
The only thing that is relevant is that Labour, under Corbyn, expelled Campbell for the same reason (support for another political party or candidate is incompatible with party membership) that they are taking action against Lawson.
This busts the theory that this is an example of a Strmer purge. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:00]
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Does anybody have a link to the actual tweet? I'm not on Twitter and cannot find it, I've only read what's been written about it. | | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:08 - Jul 2 with 1846 views | Ryorry |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:58 - Jul 2 by DJR |
To be honest, I have no idea and don't really care, because it doesn't detract from what is going on, which is much more widespread and factional than anything I can ever remember before in the Labour Party.
But don't just take my word, see from my posts what Michael Crick and John Cruddas have said about what is going on.
At the end of the day, I believe in liberal values, and a plurality of views in parties, which is why I objected to Johnson deselecting decent MPs (such as Dominic Grieve) from the party, just as I object to what is currently going on in the Labour Party.
But we live in an increasingly illiberal world, where, for example, people thought it proper to overturn the Brexit vote or mock the intelligence of Brexiteers. And people such as this are now in control of the Labour Party.
Interestingly though, the fact that this story has made it into the Observer makes me wonder if even some in the centre think that things are going too far. And it mustn't be forgotten that the Observer (like the Guardian) is a Liberal paper. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:50]
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Surely they’re just making the point that ‘rules are rules’ and have to be followed no matter who the individual is. |  |
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:10 - Jul 2 with 1842 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 12:58 - Jul 2 by Blueschev |
Does anybody have a link to the actual tweet? I'm not on Twitter and cannot find it, I've only read what's been written about it. |
I did see it earlier but now can't find it. This seems to explain it .
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:28 - Jul 2 with 1827 views | Blueschev |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:10 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
I did see it earlier but now can't find it. This seems to explain it .
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Without seeing that actual tweet and Lawson's response, that really doesn't tell me anything further. And the NEC are good at spinning things to fit their own agenda. | | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:47 - Jul 2 with 1820 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:08 - Jul 2 by Ryorry |
Surely they’re just making the point that ‘rules are rules’ and have to be followed no matter who the individual is. |
But they're trawling back through social media, and seem to be targeting only those they disapprove of, for what often seem to me rather minor breaches, if even that. Of course, I am not counting anything to do with antisemitism in this.
The fact is that Neal Lawson is a member of Compass (of which I have been a member since its inception), and perhaps its main focus these days is the Progressive Alliance, which seeks to ensure the Greens, Lib Dems and Labour work together in staunchly Tory areas.
This, on occasions, may amount to a technical breach of the rules, but the fact is, living in a true blue area as I do, that the only hope of unseating the Tories is the parties working together, in the absence of PR.
As I have attended a Progressive Alliance meeting in the past, perhaps I should be expelled too, but it does suggest to me, given Labour don't want PR and don't approve of the Progressive Alliance, they are probably targeting Lawson because they disapprove of what he is up to, which is the only alternative to PR there currently is.
It mustn't be forgotten that despite lots of councils falling into No Overall Control at the recent elections, the following article suggested Labour meddling to prevent the formation of non-Tory coalitions which I don't think is good.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/21/labour-accused-of-meddling-afte
On this issue more generally, I decided not to stand for Labour in the recent council elections to give the Greens a free run, because I get on well with them. I even delivered some leaflets for them in my ward. No doubt I could be expelled for doing so, but as the Greens won the seat, and I don't think Labour would ever do so, I call that a good outcome.
In addition, voting tactically is probably a technical breach of the rules, but surely they're not going to expel from the Labour Party anyone who has ever voted tactically? [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:51]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:59 - Jul 2 with 1794 views | Ryorry |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:47 - Jul 2 by DJR |
But they're trawling back through social media, and seem to be targeting only those they disapprove of, for what often seem to me rather minor breaches, if even that. Of course, I am not counting anything to do with antisemitism in this.
The fact is that Neal Lawson is a member of Compass (of which I have been a member since its inception), and perhaps its main focus these days is the Progressive Alliance, which seeks to ensure the Greens, Lib Dems and Labour work together in staunchly Tory areas.
This, on occasions, may amount to a technical breach of the rules, but the fact is, living in a true blue area as I do, that the only hope of unseating the Tories is the parties working together, in the absence of PR.
As I have attended a Progressive Alliance meeting in the past, perhaps I should be expelled too, but it does suggest to me, given Labour don't want PR and don't approve of the Progressive Alliance, they are probably targeting Lawson because they disapprove of what he is up to, which is the only alternative to PR there currently is.
It mustn't be forgotten that despite lots of councils falling into No Overall Control at the recent elections, the following article suggested Labour meddling to prevent the formation of non-Tory coalitions which I don't think is good.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/21/labour-accused-of-meddling-afte
On this issue more generally, I decided not to stand for Labour in the recent council elections to give the Greens a free run, because I get on well with them. I even delivered some leaflets for them in my ward. No doubt I could be expelled for doing so, but as the Greens won the seat, and I don't think Labour would ever do so, I call that a good outcome.
In addition, voting tactically is probably a technical breach of the rules, but surely they're not going to expel from the Labour Party anyone who has ever voted tactically? [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:51]
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I dunno, suspect someone (maybe not staff) saw and pointed it out to him. As a legal stickler maybe he felt he had no choice but to act - same rules apply to all etc. | |
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:12 - Jul 2 with 1777 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:59 - Jul 2 by Ryorry |
I dunno, suspect someone (maybe not staff) saw and pointed it out to him. As a legal stickler maybe he felt he had no choice but to act - same rules apply to all etc. |
I think this is happening below Starmer's level, but I hope anything I say doesn't dampen your enthusiasm for the party you have recently joined.
I come at this as a member for nearly 40 years, so probably have more interest in what is going on, most of which is never reported properly.
At the end of the day, Labour are the only game in town. | | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:21 - Jul 2 with 1764 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:47 - Jul 2 by DJR |
But they're trawling back through social media, and seem to be targeting only those they disapprove of, for what often seem to me rather minor breaches, if even that. Of course, I am not counting anything to do with antisemitism in this.
The fact is that Neal Lawson is a member of Compass (of which I have been a member since its inception), and perhaps its main focus these days is the Progressive Alliance, which seeks to ensure the Greens, Lib Dems and Labour work together in staunchly Tory areas.
This, on occasions, may amount to a technical breach of the rules, but the fact is, living in a true blue area as I do, that the only hope of unseating the Tories is the parties working together, in the absence of PR.
As I have attended a Progressive Alliance meeting in the past, perhaps I should be expelled too, but it does suggest to me, given Labour don't want PR and don't approve of the Progressive Alliance, they are probably targeting Lawson because they disapprove of what he is up to, which is the only alternative to PR there currently is.
It mustn't be forgotten that despite lots of councils falling into No Overall Control at the recent elections, the following article suggested Labour meddling to prevent the formation of non-Tory coalitions which I don't think is good.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/21/labour-accused-of-meddling-afte
On this issue more generally, I decided not to stand for Labour in the recent council elections to give the Greens a free run, because I get on well with them. I even delivered some leaflets for them in my ward. No doubt I could be expelled for doing so, but as the Greens won the seat, and I don't think Labour would ever do so, I call that a good outcome.
In addition, voting tactically is probably a technical breach of the rules, but surely they're not going to expel from the Labour Party anyone who has ever voted tactically? [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 13:51]
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Maybe this article played a part too, and made them start looking at his social media history for an excuse.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/16/labour-keir-starmer-left-g | | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:22 - Jul 2 with 1760 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:12 - Jul 2 by DJR |
I think this is happening below Starmer's level, but I hope anything I say doesn't dampen your enthusiasm for the party you have recently joined.
I come at this as a member for nearly 40 years, so probably have more interest in what is going on, most of which is never reported properly.
At the end of the day, Labour are the only game in town. |
With the greatest respect to Ryory, I think she has as many years as you with regards to voting Labour. | |
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:35 - Jul 2 with 1747 views | Ryorry |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:22 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
With the greatest respect to Ryory, I think she has as many years as you with regards to voting Labour. |
Re voting, I'm pretty sure many more than DJR due to age! but he's correct re "recently joined", as I only became a card-carrying member during Labour's Conference last Sept. | |
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:44 - Jul 2 with 1738 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 13:28 - Jul 2 by Blueschev |
Without seeing that actual tweet and Lawson's response, that really doesn't tell me anything further. And the NEC are good at spinning things to fit their own agenda. |
I'd forgotten that I received an email from Compass on Friday about this.
The following is a link, and sets out the "offending" tweets. I might add that I signed the letter.
https://www.compassonline.org.uk/a-letter-to-compass-members-and-supporters-from
Based on this it's difficult to see any rule has been broken. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 14:47]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:51 - Jul 2 with 1718 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:35 - Jul 2 by Ryorry |
Re voting, I'm pretty sure many more than DJR due to age! but he's correct re "recently joined", as I only became a card-carrying member during Labour's Conference last Sept. |
Maybe not as many as you think! | | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 15:03 - Jul 2 with 1700 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:44 - Jul 2 by DJR |
I'd forgotten that I received an email from Compass on Friday about this.
The following is a link, and sets out the "offending" tweets. I might add that I signed the letter.
https://www.compassonline.org.uk/a-letter-to-compass-members-and-supporters-from
Based on this it's difficult to see any rule has been broken. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 14:47]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 15:14 - Jul 2 with 1674 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 15:03 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
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Luke Akehurst is hardly an objective bystander, and shouldn't be commenting in public on things like this, given his role in all that is going on and the fact that he is a member of the NEC. Ann Black is also a member of the NEC and shouldn't be commenting in public.
Justice should not only be done, but be seen to be done, and it's all becoming a bit Kafkaesque.
In the end, they're going to have to back down, or be forced to by Lawson's lawyers, so I am not sure why they are doubling down, especially given that it seems to have upset the Guardian/Observer. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 15:18]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 15:19 - Jul 2 with 1662 views | positivity |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:44 - Jul 2 by DJR |
I'd forgotten that I received an email from Compass on Friday about this.
The following is a link, and sets out the "offending" tweets. I might add that I signed the letter.
https://www.compassonline.org.uk/a-letter-to-compass-members-and-supporters-from
Based on this it's difficult to see any rule has been broken. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 14:47]
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if that is the tweet in question, i can see his point, doesn't say vote green, just that this is a smart way of working. which it is
maybe there's more to it, but it needs to be published if so |  |
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 17:19 - Jul 2 with 1595 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 15:14 - Jul 2 by DJR |
Luke Akehurst is hardly an objective bystander, and shouldn't be commenting in public on things like this, given his role in all that is going on and the fact that he is a member of the NEC. Ann Black is also a member of the NEC and shouldn't be commenting in public.
Justice should not only be done, but be seen to be done, and it's all becoming a bit Kafkaesque.
In the end, they're going to have to back down, or be forced to by Lawson's lawyers, so I am not sure why they are doubling down, especially given that it seems to have upset the Guardian/Observer. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 15:18]
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This appears to be the election defeat Ann Black is talking about, but no suggestion in the article of any complaints from the Labour candidate at the time.
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/20121097.oxford-city-council-election-leaves-l | | | |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 17:44 - Jul 2 with 1567 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 15:14 - Jul 2 by DJR |
Luke Akehurst is hardly an objective bystander, and shouldn't be commenting in public on things like this, given his role in all that is going on and the fact that he is a member of the NEC. Ann Black is also a member of the NEC and shouldn't be commenting in public.
Justice should not only be done, but be seen to be done, and it's all becoming a bit Kafkaesque.
In the end, they're going to have to back down, or be forced to by Lawson's lawyers, so I am not sure why they are doubling down, especially given that it seems to have upset the Guardian/Observer. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 15:18]
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Ah. The old Boris Johnson defence. It’s a kangaroo court.
Btw re Akenhurst
Look, he’s clearly broken the same rules that were used to expel Alistair Campbell. He has every right to put his case to the panel but so far has chosen not to and instead, openly lied that he had been expelled in his Guardian article.
This is just another stick being used to beat Starmer. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 17:57]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 17:57 - Jul 2 with 1551 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 17:44 - Jul 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Ah. The old Boris Johnson defence. It’s a kangaroo court.
Btw re Akenhurst
Look, he’s clearly broken the same rules that were used to expel Alistair Campbell. He has every right to put his case to the panel but so far has chosen not to and instead, openly lied that he had been expelled in his Guardian article.
This is just another stick being used to beat Starmer. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 17:57]
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That's not the point I am making. It's that the NEC is the governing body of the Labour Party, so members of it shouldn't as a matter of propriety and natural justice be commenting in public on ongoing disciplinary issues, whether or not they sit on a particular panel.
In any event, the Lawson case is just one aspect of a widespread issue which Michael Crick and John Cruddas have concerns about. And until his case is determined, I don't think it's possible to say Lawson has clearly broken the rules. [Post edited 3 Jul 2023 9:38]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 18:36 - Jul 2 with 1496 views | positivity |
not sure if that's the one, the tweet in the letter was may 21? | |
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 18:59 - Jul 2 with 1468 views | DJR |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 18:36 - Jul 2 by positivity |
not sure if that's the one, the tweet in the letter was may 21? |
Labour won in 2021, so I merely highlighted the article to indicate there appeared to be no hard feelings the following year when Labour lost.
But who knows what's going on. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 18:59]
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| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 09:33 - Jul 3 with 1317 views | Blueschev |
| Not sure if it has been mentioned, but Labour do seem quite close to the Tories on 14:44 - Jul 2 by DJR |
I'd forgotten that I received an email from Compass on Friday about this.
The following is a link, and sets out the "offending" tweets. I might add that I signed the letter.
https://www.compassonline.org.uk/a-letter-to-compass-members-and-supporters-from
Based on this it's difficult to see any rule has been broken. [Post edited 2 Jul 2023 14:47]
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Thank you for this. A ridiculous decision, as I fully expected it to be. | | | |
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