| ULEZ.... 08:12 - Jul 21 with 9000 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Considering that 90% of Londoners will be better off.... that's one strange result!
"Yet 90% of people within the ULEZ don't have to pay anything and get the benefit of less air pollution.
So clearly the average bod within the ULEZ is benefitting given they don't pay." |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 11:57 - Jul 30 with 1326 views | lowhouseblue |
if low income = low mileage then they may not reach the point at which the carbon saved by not using fossil fuel exceeds the carbon embodied in making the new car and battery. it's quire a high mileage before you have paid off the carbon in the battery. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| ULEZ.... on 13:53 - Jul 30 with 1255 views | Herbivore |
| ULEZ.... on 10:46 - Jul 30 by ronnyd |
Can't see that private car ownership ending in rural areas being a feasible thing. Rural bus services are being axed as it is. For people living in rural areas, car ownership is a must. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 10:47]
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Then we need to go back to providing public transport in rural areas, even if it has to be heavily subsidised to make it viable. Everyone will think they have a valid reason to need to own and regularly use a vehicle but the only way we're going to tackle emissions from car use is to massively reduce private ownership of cars from their current levels. |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 14:42 - Jul 30 with 1219 views | ronnyd |
| ULEZ.... on 13:53 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
Then we need to go back to providing public transport in rural areas, even if it has to be heavily subsidised to make it viable. Everyone will think they have a valid reason to need to own and regularly use a vehicle but the only way we're going to tackle emissions from car use is to massively reduce private ownership of cars from their current levels. |
I totally agree, the big problem would be getting cash strapped or virtually bankrupt councils in rural areas, well everywhere, to stump up the subsidies that would be required. Would need central government to finance this i reckon. |  | | |
| ULEZ.... on 14:56 - Jul 30 with 1200 views | Herbivore |
| ULEZ.... on 14:42 - Jul 30 by ronnyd |
I totally agree, the big problem would be getting cash strapped or virtually bankrupt councils in rural areas, well everywhere, to stump up the subsidies that would be required. Would need central government to finance this i reckon. |
Absolutely it needs to be funded centrally, and whilst it will cost it will ultimately not be as costly as doing nothing and letting the climate crisis unfold unchecked. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 16:11 - Jul 30 with 1178 views | StokieBlue |
| ULEZ.... on 14:42 - Jul 30 by ronnyd |
I totally agree, the big problem would be getting cash strapped or virtually bankrupt councils in rural areas, well everywhere, to stump up the subsidies that would be required. Would need central government to finance this i reckon. |
It's something that should have come out of the fabled but seemingly mythical leveling up budget.
SB |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 20:31 - Jul 30 with 1125 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| ULEZ.... on 20:47 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Probably better than rich w@nkers driving luxury 4x4s! |
That’s no way to talk about the Mayor of London. Have some respect. |  | | |
| ULEZ.... on 20:34 - Jul 30 with 1125 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| ULEZ.... on 18:59 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan |
It’s a cash grab and the lemmings love it.
This is just the start. The cameras installed are capable of controlling the next stage - pay per mile.
Why do some people support this authoritarian sh1t?
Hey, Mr controlled, fancy a tummy rub?
The whole thing is off the scale baby but the lemmings refuse to see it. |
You mean there’s financial gains to be had from all these new green initiatives? [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 20:34]
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| ULEZ.... on 20:54 - Jul 30 with 1102 views | Herbivore |
| ULEZ.... on 20:34 - Jul 30 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
You mean there’s financial gains to be had from all these new green initiatives? [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 20:34]
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In contrast to the benevolent oil industry which is run on a not for profit basis. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 22:15 - Jul 30 with 1067 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ.... on 20:54 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
In contrast to the benevolent oil industry which is run on a not for profit basis. |
You would think that would have him on board. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 07:24 - Jul 31 with 972 views | Herbivore |
| ULEZ.... on 22:15 - Jul 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You would think that would have him on board. |
It's money going to local government rather than rich w@nkers, which explains his issue with it. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 08:01 - Jul 31 with 939 views | DJR |
| ULEZ.... on 18:59 - Jul 21 by Lord_Lucan |
It’s a cash grab and the lemmings love it.
This is just the start. The cameras installed are capable of controlling the next stage - pay per mile.
Why do some people support this authoritarian sh1t?
Hey, Mr controlled, fancy a tummy rub?
The whole thing is off the scale baby but the lemmings refuse to see it. |
If we do ever move away from petrol/diesel cars, the government is going to have to find the lost tax revenues somehow, and road pricing would appear to be the only way to do it.
As regards surveillance more generally, London has the highest number of security cameras per capita of any Western city, but nobody seems to bat an eyelid about that.
And if you go into Sainsbury's these day, you see your face projected back at you as you put your items through the self-checkouts. How Big Brother is that? [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 8:02]
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| ULEZ.... on 08:33 - Jul 31 with 917 views | Lord_Lucan |
| ULEZ.... on 08:01 - Jul 31 by DJR |
If we do ever move away from petrol/diesel cars, the government is going to have to find the lost tax revenues somehow, and road pricing would appear to be the only way to do it.
As regards surveillance more generally, London has the highest number of security cameras per capita of any Western city, but nobody seems to bat an eyelid about that.
And if you go into Sainsbury's these day, you see your face projected back at you as you put your items through the self-checkouts. How Big Brother is that? [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 8:02]
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Road tolls are inevitable if and when people move from petrol to electric and I have no problem with that as long as it is proportionate to loss. Don't forget that even if and when new sales of cars are electric only there will still be millions of petrol cars on the road as the 2nd hand sales of petrol cars will continue and probably flourish.
Also, I'm not sure how we are going to get anywhere close to electric powered HGV's anytime soon and even when we do they will be subject to 20% VAT on electricity.
It will be simply switching a taxing method from one to another - but you can bet your shirt on the fact it will absolutely not be proportionate.
As for cameras in general including Sainsbury's, well that's another matter entirely which I haven't commented on, and I'm not 100% against CCTV when I think of it - again, providing it is used for the purpose it was originally intended.. |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 13:31 - Jul 31 with 820 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ULEZ.... on 08:33 - Jul 31 by Lord_Lucan |
Road tolls are inevitable if and when people move from petrol to electric and I have no problem with that as long as it is proportionate to loss. Don't forget that even if and when new sales of cars are electric only there will still be millions of petrol cars on the road as the 2nd hand sales of petrol cars will continue and probably flourish.
Also, I'm not sure how we are going to get anywhere close to electric powered HGV's anytime soon and even when we do they will be subject to 20% VAT on electricity.
It will be simply switching a taxing method from one to another - but you can bet your shirt on the fact it will absolutely not be proportionate.
As for cameras in general including Sainsbury's, well that's another matter entirely which I haven't commented on, and I'm not 100% against CCTV when I think of it - again, providing it is used for the purpose it was originally intended.. |
I think I’d have no problem if it was reinvested back into the roads. Driving the toll roads in France is a joy compared to trying to get around the UK. Well worth it.
I think we’re waiting for hydrogen aren’t we? That gets past the electric problems for HGVs, issues around home charging, etc. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if EVs end up at the Betamax of the vehicle world (although maybe gone too far already for that?). |  |
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| ULEZ.... on 13:36 - Jul 31 with 801 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| ULEZ.... on 13:31 - Jul 31 by Swansea_Blue |
I think I’d have no problem if it was reinvested back into the roads. Driving the toll roads in France is a joy compared to trying to get around the UK. Well worth it.
I think we’re waiting for hydrogen aren’t we? That gets past the electric problems for HGVs, issues around home charging, etc. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if EVs end up at the Betamax of the vehicle world (although maybe gone too far already for that?). |
Hydrogen for cars will not happen in scale. It’s completely energy inefficient since it takes a huge amount of energy to make hydrogen. Much more efficient (not to mention cheaper) to put electricity straight into your car, BEVs are not going away.
May be a possibility for larger vehicles, HGVs, buses, and maybe ships where long mileage makes BEV tech not feasible. | | | |
| ULEZ.... on 13:46 - Jul 31 with 786 views | Swansea_Blue |
What surprises me about this whole issue is that nobody ever talks about aiming to drive (or travel) less. An older car then effectively becomes ‘greener’.
Just as an example, cutting back on non-essential journeys was the third most common response to the rising cost of living in the fairly recent 2021 census. 42% of people were cutting back. So if it can be done for financial reasons, it can also be done if we really value the environment enough.
Changes are constrained by affordability of course, but there’s lots more we could if we want to. But it seems like everyone always wants to be somewhere else. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 13:53 - Jul 31 with 768 views | lowhouseblue |
| ULEZ.... on 13:46 - Jul 31 by Swansea_Blue |
What surprises me about this whole issue is that nobody ever talks about aiming to drive (or travel) less. An older car then effectively becomes ‘greener’.
Just as an example, cutting back on non-essential journeys was the third most common response to the rising cost of living in the fairly recent 2021 census. 42% of people were cutting back. So if it can be done for financial reasons, it can also be done if we really value the environment enough.
Changes are constrained by affordability of course, but there’s lots more we could if we want to. But it seems like everyone always wants to be somewhere else. |
if you do relatively low mileage an ev isn't the green option. better to run an existing diesel (unless you drive in areas where particulate concentrations are an issue).
also if we all drive as much as currently and just switch to evs not only will there be the energy sunk into new batteries etc, but we'll need to massively increase electricity generation capacity and build a new grid. when it comes to climate change, technology isn't a get out of jail free card. we do need to drive less. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| ULEZ.... on 13:55 - Jul 31 with 755 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ULEZ.... on 13:36 - Jul 31 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Hydrogen for cars will not happen in scale. It’s completely energy inefficient since it takes a huge amount of energy to make hydrogen. Much more efficient (not to mention cheaper) to put electricity straight into your car, BEVs are not going away.
May be a possibility for larger vehicles, HGVs, buses, and maybe ships where long mileage makes BEV tech not feasible. |
Yeah we’d need a ready source of cheap renewable energy at a level that just isn’t there yet. I expect hydrogen cars to be more common in countries that have invested heavily in renewable electricity, but I’m not sure if that’s right. And then we’d need the fuelling stations as well. There are a few more models coming out apparently, so manufacturers must see a role for hydrogen. | |
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| ULEZ.... on 15:14 - Jul 31 with 711 views | StokieBlue |
| ULEZ.... on 13:55 - Jul 31 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah we’d need a ready source of cheap renewable energy at a level that just isn’t there yet. I expect hydrogen cars to be more common in countries that have invested heavily in renewable electricity, but I’m not sure if that’s right. And then we’d need the fuelling stations as well. There are a few more models coming out apparently, so manufacturers must see a role for hydrogen. |
Most of the hydrogen cars are Japanese as their government heavily subsidised hydrogen research and infrastructure development starting around 20 years ago I believe.
They took the punt on that as their alternative to petrol so I guess they will be sticking with it if they think it's at all feasible.
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