| Oil profits 11:25 - Aug 1 with 2212 views | TalkingBlues |
Some staggering profits released for the second quarter, not as scandalous as last year, but still huge money in the coffers.
I’m honestly bemused that companies continue to be allowed to profit directly at the hands of the poorest and neediest in society, amidst a cost of living crisis and they also still receive massive taxpayer handouts going straight on the bottom line, wtf! What is it actually going to take for these inequalities to be addressed, do we have to riot?
We shouldn’t have to be having these conversations in the UK in 2023, society is overrun with greed and there appears to be zero culpability, or accountability for any actions corporates take against us. [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 11:25]
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| Oil profits on 11:44 - Aug 1 with 2164 views | NthQldITFC |
I think that this is the first time I've ever seen a post before logging in and felt so strongly moved to take someone off my div list in order to upvote them.
Great post, and of course there's the heinous Crimes Against The Environment and Crimes Against Our Children's Futures that Big Oil are committing as well.
I think we will see riots and a serious threat to civil society soon, but whether that is as a direct result of poverty or the growing realisation that we need to rip up the capitalist system before it's too late, I don't know.
I'm sure I'll bung you back on the div list again when you next troll (which I'm sure won't bother you in the slightest!)  , but well said on this. |  |
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| Oil profits on 12:02 - Aug 1 with 2112 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
How do we address this though. When you can only apply a windfall tax to UK based profits it actually doesn’t amount to that much. If you cap profits they’ll move it offshore. I do think a global effort is needed to tackle these insane profits, however half of oil production is by state run companies, the most profitable being the Saudi government, i can’t see much likelihood of cooperation.
The only solution I see is faster move away from oil and gas, with UK state owned renewable and nuclear assets, but it seems no party is currently offering this up. |  | | |
| Oil profits on 12:49 - Aug 1 with 2072 views | sirporter |
| Oil profits on 12:02 - Aug 1 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
How do we address this though. When you can only apply a windfall tax to UK based profits it actually doesn’t amount to that much. If you cap profits they’ll move it offshore. I do think a global effort is needed to tackle these insane profits, however half of oil production is by state run companies, the most profitable being the Saudi government, i can’t see much likelihood of cooperation.
The only solution I see is faster move away from oil and gas, with UK state owned renewable and nuclear assets, but it seems no party is currently offering this up. |
Interesting debate and divides opinion, particularly when many have only a basic understanding of how they think energy markets work and what they think or would like the alternative energy sources to be.
A popular myth is that 'green' energy is cheaper, rarely if ever dispelled or questioned by the media and is therefore a suitable and immediate replacement for home heating, car driving, etc. let alone all the everyday items we take for granted made from petro chems (phones, computers, tv.s, medical supplies etc).
Take a look at the last four weeks and the failure of the Norfolk wind farm to supply 1.5m homes as the cost made it unviable, two battery factories bankrupt as well, Siemens halting their wind turbine suppy as the tech has issues as was rushed out and put them at a global loss of £1 billion so far, I could go on. The green tech needs more time and much larger investment to get it right before any chance of 24/7 supplies to parts of our nation, some areas such as heavy vehicals are many years from a solution as is the joined up supply to our national grid.
The big question for many is what are you prepared to scarifice, how much will you pay or can afford to pay as the just stopping oil will cause severe hardship and in many areas create huge cost and vulnerability.
There is no simple answer and many politicians to date have not been honest with the public, what they say in private re green energy is totally different to public rhetoric as they know they cannot deliver net zero in current time scales....The simple option promoted by some is far from it and the complexity and unintended consequences of simply stopping oil would be felt by a large change in peoples everyday lifestyles quite quickly....the alarmists have many frightened, science always has done re climate since time began, through medieval times and now in 2023.Any climate related event is 'climate change' where many are simply not and the weather used to be measured in thousands and even millions if years. Recently it is the last 100 yrs approx since records began !
There is no reason not to transition to cleaner effective energy/fuels/materials, however, for those in the industries and for the general public realistic 'public' timescales from politicians are required unless we wish to see costs soar, blackouts occur ( wind needs gas to supply 24/7) . It's a complex mix, the oil companies don't suplly direct to the public, they have huge investments, running costs, made huge losses through covid with no support and there is a host of intermediaries between drilling oil and it running our cars, heating homes, making products etc.
What may surprise some is the fact that the larger investments in many renewable sources are from the oil and gas companies (they have the global reach and funds few other do) as they develop the tech, Shell , BP and many other lesser known oilies will be our wind , solar, hydrogen, efuel suppliers in the future and require their profits to develop and get it right, cut off their profits and we actually slow the green advance ironically.....apologies for the long post, it's a long subject. [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 13:34]
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| Oil profits on 12:57 - Aug 1 with 2039 views | NthQldITFC |
| Oil profits on 12:49 - Aug 1 by sirporter |
Interesting debate and divides opinion, particularly when many have only a basic understanding of how they think energy markets work and what they think or would like the alternative energy sources to be.
A popular myth is that 'green' energy is cheaper, rarely if ever dispelled or questioned by the media and is therefore a suitable and immediate replacement for home heating, car driving, etc. let alone all the everyday items we take for granted made from petro chems (phones, computers, tv.s, medical supplies etc).
Take a look at the last four weeks and the failure of the Norfolk wind farm to supply 1.5m homes as the cost made it unviable, two battery factories bankrupt as well, Siemens halting their wind turbine suppy as the tech has issues as was rushed out and put them at a global loss of £1 billion so far, I could go on. The green tech needs more time and much larger investment to get it right before any chance of 24/7 supplies to parts of our nation, some areas such as heavy vehicals are many years from a solution as is the joined up supply to our national grid.
The big question for many is what are you prepared to scarifice, how much will you pay or can afford to pay as the just stopping oil will cause severe hardship and in many areas create huge cost and vulnerability.
There is no simple answer and many politicians to date have not been honest with the public, what they say in private re green energy is totally different to public rhetoric as they know they cannot deliver net zero in current time scales....The simple option promoted by some is far from it and the complexity and unintended consequences of simply stopping oil would be felt by a large change in peoples everyday lifestyles quite quickly....the alarmists have many frightened, science always has done re climate since time began, through medieval times and now in 2023.Any climate related event is 'climate change' where many are simply not and the weather used to be measured in thousands and even millions if years. Recently it is the last 100 yrs approx since records began !
There is no reason not to transition to cleaner effective energy/fuels/materials, however, for those in the industries and for the general public realistic 'public' timescales from politicians are required unless we wish to see costs soar, blackouts occur ( wind needs gas to supply 24/7) . It's a complex mix, the oil companies don't suplly direct to the public, they have huge investments, running costs, made huge losses through covid with no support and there is a host of intermediaries between drilling oil and it running our cars, heating homes, making products etc.
What may surprise some is the fact that the larger investments in many renewable sources are from the oil and gas companies (they have the global reach and funds few other do) as they develop the tech, Shell , BP and many other lesser known oilies will be our wind , solar, hydrogen, efuel suppliers in the future and require their profits to develop and get it right, cut off their profits and we actually slow the green advance ironically.....apologies for the long post, it's a long subject. [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 13:34]
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I can't really follow what you're trying to say, but I think I get the gist of it. Has the PR department heard of ChatGPT? | |
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| Oil profits on 12:58 - Aug 1 with 2028 views | Radlett_blue |
| Oil profits on 12:49 - Aug 1 by sirporter |
Interesting debate and divides opinion, particularly when many have only a basic understanding of how they think energy markets work and what they think or would like the alternative energy sources to be.
A popular myth is that 'green' energy is cheaper, rarely if ever dispelled or questioned by the media and is therefore a suitable and immediate replacement for home heating, car driving, etc. let alone all the everyday items we take for granted made from petro chems (phones, computers, tv.s, medical supplies etc).
Take a look at the last four weeks and the failure of the Norfolk wind farm to supply 1.5m homes as the cost made it unviable, two battery factories bankrupt as well, Siemens halting their wind turbine suppy as the tech has issues as was rushed out and put them at a global loss of £1 billion so far, I could go on. The green tech needs more time and much larger investment to get it right before any chance of 24/7 supplies to parts of our nation, some areas such as heavy vehicals are many years from a solution as is the joined up supply to our national grid.
The big question for many is what are you prepared to scarifice, how much will you pay or can afford to pay as the just stopping oil will cause severe hardship and in many areas create huge cost and vulnerability.
There is no simple answer and many politicians to date have not been honest with the public, what they say in private re green energy is totally different to public rhetoric as they know they cannot deliver net zero in current time scales....The simple option promoted by some is far from it and the complexity and unintended consequences of simply stopping oil would be felt by a large change in peoples everyday lifestyles quite quickly....the alarmists have many frightened, science always has done re climate since time began, through medieval times and now in 2023.Any climate related event is 'climate change' where many are simply not and the weather used to be measured in thousands and even millions if years. Recently it is the last 100 yrs approx since records began !
There is no reason not to transition to cleaner effective energy/fuels/materials, however, for those in the industries and for the general public realistic 'public' timescales from politicians are required unless we wish to see costs soar, blackouts occur ( wind needs gas to supply 24/7) . It's a complex mix, the oil companies don't suplly direct to the public, they have huge investments, running costs, made huge losses through covid with no support and there is a host of intermediaries between drilling oil and it running our cars, heating homes, making products etc.
What may surprise some is the fact that the larger investments in many renewable sources are from the oil and gas companies (they have the global reach and funds few other do) as they develop the tech, Shell , BP and many other lesser known oilies will be our wind , solar, hydrogen, efuel suppliers in the future and require their profits to develop and get it right, cut off their profits and we actually slow the green advance ironically.....apologies for the long post, it's a long subject. [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 13:34]
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Great post. It needed to be long as energy usage is a long & complex subject. Yes, some people think that solar & wind are "free", which is patently untrue. There's always a furore when oil companies make bumper profits when energy prices are high, especially as this usually comes at a time when the lower earners are being pressurised by the same forces. But if energy companies couldn't ever make large profits, they wouldn't invest & then we wouldn't have any energy. |  |
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| Oil profits on 13:11 - Aug 1 with 2004 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Oil profits on 12:58 - Aug 1 by Radlett_blue |
Great post. It needed to be long as energy usage is a long & complex subject. Yes, some people think that solar & wind are "free", which is patently untrue. There's always a furore when oil companies make bumper profits when energy prices are high, especially as this usually comes at a time when the lower earners are being pressurised by the same forces. But if energy companies couldn't ever make large profits, they wouldn't invest & then we wouldn't have any energy. |
Only around one third of crude oil gets turned into energy. The byproducts are essential to msuntsun the lifestyle we are accustomed to.
https://www.scimed.co.uk/education/what-products-are-made-from-petroleum/ |  |
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| Oil profits on 14:00 - Aug 1 with 1944 views | HARRY10 |
"require their profits to develop and get it right, cut off their profits and we actually slow the green advance ironically"
utter nonsense
companies do not depend on profits for further investment, otherwise they would not be profits
profits are what is left at the end of a trading year, and are such divvied out to shareholders ie dividends | | | |
| Oil profits on 14:06 - Aug 1 with 1943 views | sirporter |
| Oil profits on 14:00 - Aug 1 by HARRY10 |
"require their profits to develop and get it right, cut off their profits and we actually slow the green advance ironically"
utter nonsense
companies do not depend on profits for further investment, otherwise they would not be profits
profits are what is left at the end of a trading year, and are such divvied out to shareholders ie dividends |
With respect, profits are for the prior year to that date, they are then divided into future investments, return a percentage to shareholders future running costs etc..therefore on going profits provide a base for future investment etc.....I presume you run a business too ..hard to imagine any company starting a new tax year with no funds, after returning all profits ! [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 14:13]
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| Oil profits on 14:58 - Aug 1 with 1874 views | HARRY10 |
| Oil profits on 14:06 - Aug 1 by sirporter |
With respect, profits are for the prior year to that date, they are then divided into future investments, return a percentage to shareholders future running costs etc..therefore on going profits provide a base for future investment etc.....I presume you run a business too ..hard to imagine any company starting a new tax year with no funds, after returning all profits ! [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 14:13]
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I would stop digging........
'future running costs ' which are not investing
It is absurd to imagine that a company's investment is based on its profits at the end of the year
Are those profits accumulated (saved) like a kid saving up to buy a bike, then it is decided what can be afforded ? I suspect oil companies plan investment for years ahead, and borrow accordingly. otherwise they would never declare a dividend.
Or is it in reality that a company will borrow what is needed with a view to making a profit on that borrowing ?
Or are we to believe, as the logic of your argument is, any company not returning a profitr in a year or two is not going to invest ? | | | |
| Oil profits on 15:26 - Aug 1 with 1856 views | Yppswyche |
Yes, we have to riot |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:26 - Aug 1 with 1856 views | Yppswyche |
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| Oil profits on 15:31 - Aug 1 with 1850 views | noggin |
If only those profits were building up a huge sovereign wealth fund. Was it Thatcher that sold the the oil and gas? |  |
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| Oil profits on 15:40 - Aug 1 with 1840 views | sirporter |
| Oil profits on 14:58 - Aug 1 by HARRY10 |
I would stop digging........
'future running costs ' which are not investing
It is absurd to imagine that a company's investment is based on its profits at the end of the year
Are those profits accumulated (saved) like a kid saving up to buy a bike, then it is decided what can be afforded ? I suspect oil companies plan investment for years ahead, and borrow accordingly. otherwise they would never declare a dividend.
Or is it in reality that a company will borrow what is needed with a view to making a profit on that borrowing ?
Or are we to believe, as the logic of your argument is, any company not returning a profitr in a year or two is not going to invest ? |
stop digging lol ...future running costs (money from previous profits) are required to run a business and keep it solvent, that allows for future investment on profits made, any borrowings have to also be serviced from income that is hopefully sufficient to meet costs and provide further profits, that are then available to invest on an ongoing basis.
All profits returned to share holders would see a balance of nil at start of year, relying on next income to service all expenses etc, that would also restrict investment.
So year end profit figure is what is left after all expenses, divis etc and that figure then rolls into the following year and so on, rolling profits are required to sustain, invest etc and not all returned to share holders, clearly...I'm not sure you understand my explanation so for the sake of ciivility I'll leave it there, you clearly have a different take on how business run their finances, divi and investment allocations. ..thanks for the debate :-) [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 15:57]
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| Oil profits on 16:00 - Aug 1 with 1803 views | noggin |
| Oil profits on 15:31 - Aug 1 by noggin |
If only those profits were building up a huge sovereign wealth fund. Was it Thatcher that sold the the oil and gas? |
Why the down vote Radlett? | |
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| Oil profits on 16:09 - Aug 1 with 1784 views | BlueBadger |
| Oil profits on 16:00 - Aug 1 by noggin |
Why the down vote Radlett? |
Radders loves a bit of the old bigotry, corruption, incompetence and criminality party. |  |
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| Oil profits on 17:28 - Aug 1 with 1738 views | noggin |
| Oil profits on 16:09 - Aug 1 by BlueBadger |
Radders loves a bit of the old bigotry, corruption, incompetence and criminality party. |
He's obviously hugely wealthy. | |
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