| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version 07:33 - Aug 31 with 1848 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.smarttransport.org.uk/news/latest-news/leeds-city-council-s-decision
"A council’s decision not to introduce a charging clean air zone (CAZ) has been justified after new figures show emissions continue to tumble.
Air quality data, published by Leeds City Council, reveals that levels of air pollution in the city have not returned to pre-pandemic levels and continue their long-term decline."
Missed a trick there, just think of the money they could be creaming off the already financially stretched.
[Post edited 31 Aug 2023 7:35]
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 08:00 - Aug 31 with 1804 views | Swansea_Blue |
I like how the article demonstrates the emissions continuing to "tumble" with a graph that shows an uptick in the last year of data (and that's 2 years out of date). Hopefully they've got some more recent info. |  |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 08:14 - Aug 31 with 1751 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 08:00 - Aug 31 by Swansea_Blue |
I like how the article demonstrates the emissions continuing to "tumble" with a graph that shows an uptick in the last year of data (and that's 2 years out of date). Hopefully they've got some more recent info. |
Shhhh!! I'm just relieved we can take Junior and all her stuff to University without being fined.
However emissions will of course decline due to natural wastage over time and improvements in public transport vehicles.
Going forward it will interesting to see if compliance goalposts move over time in those areas that charge. | |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 10:05 - Aug 31 with 1632 views | jontysnut |
Post pandemic traffic going into Leeds has fallen since I used to commute daily, with new patterns of work. Plus, and I don't want to sound like a Daily Mail reader, but the number of bus lanes, roadworks, city centre being dug up prioritising buses and bikes make it a challenge to drive in. £2 bus fare cheaper than parking and big park and rides also help. On the other hand Bradford next door has an emissions charge but this doesn't apply to private cars. |  | | |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 10:47 - Aug 31 with 1591 views | Kievthegreat |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 10:05 - Aug 31 by jontysnut |
Post pandemic traffic going into Leeds has fallen since I used to commute daily, with new patterns of work. Plus, and I don't want to sound like a Daily Mail reader, but the number of bus lanes, roadworks, city centre being dug up prioritising buses and bikes make it a challenge to drive in. £2 bus fare cheaper than parking and big park and rides also help. On the other hand Bradford next door has an emissions charge but this doesn't apply to private cars. |
"the number of bus lanes, roadworks, city centre being dug up prioritising buses and bikes make it a challenge to drive in"
That's called good urban planning. City centres represent locations with high flow of people and limitations on space. Cars are the antithesis of good transport for high density areas like city centres. They should be actively discouraged from them.
"£2 bus fare cheaper than parking and big park and rides also help."
And that's good joined up public transport policy. It's no good making cities less hospitable to cars if you don't actually provide a good convenient and affordable alternative.
That said I did recently read that Leeds is the largest urban area in Europe without any trams, metro or light rail services, but that reflects the fact that our cities (except for London) have worse public transport than pretty much any country in the developed world including America. (will post the link to the article/study if I can find it) |  | | |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 11:01 - Aug 31 with 1547 views | DJR |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 10:47 - Aug 31 by Kievthegreat |
"the number of bus lanes, roadworks, city centre being dug up prioritising buses and bikes make it a challenge to drive in"
That's called good urban planning. City centres represent locations with high flow of people and limitations on space. Cars are the antithesis of good transport for high density areas like city centres. They should be actively discouraged from them.
"£2 bus fare cheaper than parking and big park and rides also help."
And that's good joined up public transport policy. It's no good making cities less hospitable to cars if you don't actually provide a good convenient and affordable alternative.
That said I did recently read that Leeds is the largest urban area in Europe without any trams, metro or light rail services, but that reflects the fact that our cities (except for London) have worse public transport than pretty much any country in the developed world including America. (will post the link to the article/study if I can find it) |
The slightly galling thing with London is that, as well as an excellent public transport system, my friends of the same age as me who live there qualify for free travel, whereas I have to wait to State Pension age (66), to qualify for a bus pass for a wholly inadequate, and declining, bus service. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 11:19]
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 11:17 - Aug 31 with 1516 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 08:14 - Aug 31 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Shhhh!! I'm just relieved we can take Junior and all her stuff to University without being fined.
However emissions will of course decline due to natural wastage over time and improvements in public transport vehicles.
Going forward it will interesting to see if compliance goalposts move over time in those areas that charge. |
I'm all for ULEZs and the like - anything that provides cleaner air to breath has to be a winner. What really p*sses me off though is that us public are asked to fund the mess caused by others (again). The failure to improve air quality as much as expected is largely down to us doing as we were told by politicians and switching to diesel cars and then the cheating of emission standards by manufactures. It'd be nice if those people accepted some responsibility. Maybe they could contribute more to helping people switch to compliant vehicles? | |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:28 - Aug 31 with 1440 views | yorkshireblue |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 10:47 - Aug 31 by Kievthegreat |
"the number of bus lanes, roadworks, city centre being dug up prioritising buses and bikes make it a challenge to drive in"
That's called good urban planning. City centres represent locations with high flow of people and limitations on space. Cars are the antithesis of good transport for high density areas like city centres. They should be actively discouraged from them.
"£2 bus fare cheaper than parking and big park and rides also help."
And that's good joined up public transport policy. It's no good making cities less hospitable to cars if you don't actually provide a good convenient and affordable alternative.
That said I did recently read that Leeds is the largest urban area in Europe without any trams, metro or light rail services, but that reflects the fact that our cities (except for London) have worse public transport than pretty much any country in the developed world including America. (will post the link to the article/study if I can find it) |
I work and live in Leeds - working in the city centre(ish). Transport in and around the city is atrocious. Although, I am pretty sure anybody living in any city would say the same thing about there.
The counil have spent over £30million on planning a Trolleybus and £70million on a Supetram proposal (which was also scrapped) along with HS2 reaching Leeds. Even plans to build a train station at LBA were scrapped. As was the electificiation of the railway between Leeds and Manchester.
Lots of various people to blame for all this - but like so much in life, a lot could be resolved if various parties put the needs of their constituants/customers first ahead of their own |  | | |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:33 - Aug 31 with 1425 views | Swansea_Blue |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:28 - Aug 31 by yorkshireblue |
I work and live in Leeds - working in the city centre(ish). Transport in and around the city is atrocious. Although, I am pretty sure anybody living in any city would say the same thing about there.
The counil have spent over £30million on planning a Trolleybus and £70million on a Supetram proposal (which was also scrapped) along with HS2 reaching Leeds. Even plans to build a train station at LBA were scrapped. As was the electificiation of the railway between Leeds and Manchester.
Lots of various people to blame for all this - but like so much in life, a lot could be resolved if various parties put the needs of their constituants/customers first ahead of their own |
Sounds similar to down here in Swansea. Been lots of plans for all kinds of things, but all we ended up with was a bendy bus scheme that needed the whole of the town centre to be dug up and was then scrapped after only 5 or 6 years because, surprise, surprise, massive bendy buses are quite expensive to run.
Oh and the re-designed road layouts were directly responsible for a couple of pedestrian deaths too, as they were so counter-intuitive. Lovely.
We have chimpanzees doing the transport planning around here, I'm convinced of it. | |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:34 - Aug 31 with 1423 views | DJR |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:28 - Aug 31 by yorkshireblue |
I work and live in Leeds - working in the city centre(ish). Transport in and around the city is atrocious. Although, I am pretty sure anybody living in any city would say the same thing about there.
The counil have spent over £30million on planning a Trolleybus and £70million on a Supetram proposal (which was also scrapped) along with HS2 reaching Leeds. Even plans to build a train station at LBA were scrapped. As was the electificiation of the railway between Leeds and Manchester.
Lots of various people to blame for all this - but like so much in life, a lot could be resolved if various parties put the needs of their constituants/customers first ahead of their own |
I rather doubt proportionally that Leeds has had anything like the money poured into public transport that London has had: the latest example is the Elizabeth Line which has cost about £19 billion. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 13:34]
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:42 - Aug 31 with 1399 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:28 - Aug 31 by yorkshireblue |
I work and live in Leeds - working in the city centre(ish). Transport in and around the city is atrocious. Although, I am pretty sure anybody living in any city would say the same thing about there.
The counil have spent over £30million on planning a Trolleybus and £70million on a Supetram proposal (which was also scrapped) along with HS2 reaching Leeds. Even plans to build a train station at LBA were scrapped. As was the electificiation of the railway between Leeds and Manchester.
Lots of various people to blame for all this - but like so much in life, a lot could be resolved if various parties put the needs of their constituants/customers first ahead of their own |
My recent trips through Leeds have been slow and torturous. Can't be much worse than queuing traffic for pollution. | |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:07 - Aug 31 with 1366 views | Kievthegreat |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 13:28 - Aug 31 by yorkshireblue |
I work and live in Leeds - working in the city centre(ish). Transport in and around the city is atrocious. Although, I am pretty sure anybody living in any city would say the same thing about there.
The counil have spent over £30million on planning a Trolleybus and £70million on a Supetram proposal (which was also scrapped) along with HS2 reaching Leeds. Even plans to build a train station at LBA were scrapped. As was the electificiation of the railway between Leeds and Manchester.
Lots of various people to blame for all this - but like so much in life, a lot could be resolved if various parties put the needs of their constituants/customers first ahead of their own |
Add in constant broken promises with Trans Pennine rail lines and upgrades as well.
Meanwhile London (as others have pointed out) get billions and billions while significantly cheaper schemes which would do enormous amounts for cities like Leeds get bumped down to make way for them.
The biggest failure in public transport stems from central government. Local authorities (except London, they are always the exception), don't have anywhere near enough funding or remit to build big infrastructure they need and central government chases big projects highly focalised on London. Which is why Yorkshire still had Pacers in 2021!
Interesting thread if anyone is interested about how bad our public transport is. Although I think the focus on Nimbyism is valid with regards to cost, there is a bigger issue with Westminster just being crap at allocating funds to the right places:
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:24 - Aug 31 with 1346 views | giant_stow |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:07 - Aug 31 by Kievthegreat |
Add in constant broken promises with Trans Pennine rail lines and upgrades as well.
Meanwhile London (as others have pointed out) get billions and billions while significantly cheaper schemes which would do enormous amounts for cities like Leeds get bumped down to make way for them.
The biggest failure in public transport stems from central government. Local authorities (except London, they are always the exception), don't have anywhere near enough funding or remit to build big infrastructure they need and central government chases big projects highly focalised on London. Which is why Yorkshire still had Pacers in 2021!
Interesting thread if anyone is interested about how bad our public transport is. Although I think the focus on Nimbyism is valid with regards to cost, there is a bigger issue with Westminster just being crap at allocating funds to the right places:
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as a slightly more general point on costs for new transport stuff, I just wonder whether it all *should* cost so much? Why can other countries build infrastructure seemingly affordably when we seem to struggle so much? I realise we're small overcrowded place with tough planning laws but doesn't that apply elsewhere too? I can't help but question whether certain industries / professions are favoured and overpaid in comparison to other nations.
Edit: also one little point on the Elizabeth Line: I think that should be viewed as an infrastructure project for the whole of the southeast England (and therefore a large minority of the country's population) - not just London. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 14:29]
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:50 - Aug 31 with 1313 views | Coastalblue |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:24 - Aug 31 by giant_stow |
as a slightly more general point on costs for new transport stuff, I just wonder whether it all *should* cost so much? Why can other countries build infrastructure seemingly affordably when we seem to struggle so much? I realise we're small overcrowded place with tough planning laws but doesn't that apply elsewhere too? I can't help but question whether certain industries / professions are favoured and overpaid in comparison to other nations.
Edit: also one little point on the Elizabeth Line: I think that should be viewed as an infrastructure project for the whole of the southeast England (and therefore a large minority of the country's population) - not just London. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 14:29]
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Also worth noting for your edit that the Lizzie Line was not just paid for by central government, TFL paid a significant part and something like 40% (not sure what the precise figure ended up being) was funded by London Businesses.
It was needed, and not just for the benefit of London.
HS2 however I'm not so convinced by. |  |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 15:13 - Aug 31 with 1296 views | DJR |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:24 - Aug 31 by giant_stow |
as a slightly more general point on costs for new transport stuff, I just wonder whether it all *should* cost so much? Why can other countries build infrastructure seemingly affordably when we seem to struggle so much? I realise we're small overcrowded place with tough planning laws but doesn't that apply elsewhere too? I can't help but question whether certain industries / professions are favoured and overpaid in comparison to other nations.
Edit: also one little point on the Elizabeth Line: I think that should be viewed as an infrastructure project for the whole of the southeast England (and therefore a large minority of the country's population) - not just London. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 14:29]
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Perhaps I should have said London and the South East, given things like the Channel Tunnel and HS1 which go through Kent and Essex, and both of which involved substantial investment, on top of the wasted cost of the now obsolete Eurostar terminal at Waterloo. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 15:18]
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 15:26 - Aug 31 with 1264 views | giant_stow |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 14:50 - Aug 31 by Coastalblue |
Also worth noting for your edit that the Lizzie Line was not just paid for by central government, TFL paid a significant part and something like 40% (not sure what the precise figure ended up being) was funded by London Businesses.
It was needed, and not just for the benefit of London.
HS2 however I'm not so convinced by. |
Didn't know that about the funding - ta. And agreed on HS2 - I got a train to Manchester a few weeks back from Euston and it took 2.5hours - seemed plenty quick enough to me. | |
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| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 15:29 - Aug 31 with 1255 views | giant_stow |
| ULEZ......Leeds, Leeds, Leeds version on 15:13 - Aug 31 by DJR |
Perhaps I should have said London and the South East, given things like the Channel Tunnel and HS1 which go through Kent and Essex, and both of which involved substantial investment, on top of the wasted cost of the now obsolete Eurostar terminal at Waterloo. [Post edited 31 Aug 2023 15:18]
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agreed that the wasted station at Waterloo is a terrible pity. It was quite beautiful apart form anything. | |
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