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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 257399 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:25 - Nov 9 with 3569 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:12 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impac

If 160 kids dying every day still leaves you on the fence, here’s another ghoulish stat that suggests the current and future impact of the illegal collective punishment meted out on the Palestinian population.

312 families have each lost 10 or more family members, 189 families have each lost 6-9 members and 549 families have each lost 2-5 members.

So far. And in just over a month.


As the plight of Palestinian civilians has rather fallen off the radar in this country with controversies about the march and poppies dominating, your link is worth reading in full, as is the following Tweet, and comment from an MSF spokesman.



Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders) chief, Isabelle Defourny, called southern Gaza safe zones “fake zones”, and said about 30% of those killed in Gaza were in the south.

The World Service (especially Newshour) continues to broadcast fair and exemplary coverage.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 16:26]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:53 - Nov 9 with 3462 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:53 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Everyone is horrified by what is happening. Nobody wants to see senseless death.

Apart from Hamas.

This conflict will be horrendous:
There is no strategic advantage for Hamas to be separated from civilians.

As GB was saying, wouldn’t it be great if Hamas agreed to all non-combatants to be evacuated, for now let’s not even consider the logistics about moving 2 Million people out of harms way, Hamas won’t let that happen painlessly.

In a straight-up military fight, combatants vs combatants, Hamas would be destroyed.

Hamas already intimidates and kill Palestinians that oppose them, there are reports that Hamas was telling civilians to go back home ignore what Israel said about evacuating, and it probably wasn’t a polite request.

This a quote that should be considered. In 2014, the Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhari told al-Aqsa TV: “Hamas despises those defeatist Palestinians who criticise the high number of civilian casualties. The resistance praises our people … we lead our people to death … I mean, to war.”

In any scenario that Hamas remains an armed force, people will be killed by them and because of them.

Someone has to be responsible for destroying the current Hamas terrorists.

Expressing horror at what is happening, and wanting to see it stop is of course what people want.

Unfortunately I can’t see why a ceasefire now will do anything other than what other ceasefires achieved in the past, which is an increase in deaths at some point in the future.

People should try a thought experiment of thinking tactically like a Hamas terrorist, you would quite like a ceasefire, because it will allow you to move your resources back into the south, in an even more compact place, with even more density of civilians.

I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly.

No ceasefire with Hamas has stopped or decreased the killings. Just paused them for a bit.
The last ceasefire started in 2021, and was ended on Oct 7th.

If ceasefires worked, Oct 7th wouldn’t have happened.

I can’t see anyone proposing an alternative on how to stop Hamas killing people.

And for those people saying, everyone is ignoring what happened pre Oct 7th, that’s nonsense.
It is the opposite that is true. Many things tried haven’t worked up to Oct 7th.

Don’t pretend ceasefires and negotiations haven’t been tried, don’t pretend Hamas won’t kill people given the chance, don’t pretend Hamas haven’t been an authoritarian regime quashing any internal attempts to dislodge them.

Sure debate that history and competency and comment on extremes on both sides, and religious intolerance in general.

Meanwhile, on October the 8th there were 30,000 terrorists with plenty of food, water, weapons, hostages, and 2 Million people to hide behind, who have just had their biggest victory, and are threatening more of the same.


"I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly."

Could you expand on "fighting properly" please. Is it a square off in an olive grove?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:15 - Nov 9 with 3427 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:16 - Nov 9 by eireblue

I didn’t see that, no need to be delicate, in-laws are from Colombo, Sri Lanka.
We have Tamil friends.

It’s a Sh*tshow in Sri Lanka, but that’s a different problem.

Thoroughly recommend it for a holiday though.


This beach must be so much more pleasant now that state military might has shown those violent terrorists a thing or two.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullivaikkal_massacre

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:54 - Nov 9 with 3401 viewsDJR

This killing of a disabled man with special needs is very sad, and can't be justified.

https://www.channel4.com/news/minute-by-minute-israeli-killing-in-west-bank-visu
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 21:02]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:57 - Nov 9 with 3385 viewspositivity

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:53 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

"I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly."

Could you expand on "fighting properly" please. Is it a square off in an olive grove?


good idea banksy, that'd save a lot of bloodshed...

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:04 - Nov 9 with 3359 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:53 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

"I don’t see daily calls for Hamas to stop being cowards, get out of the way of civilians and fight properly."

Could you expand on "fighting properly" please. Is it a square off in an olive grove?


No, I think the sentiment is fairly clear.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:14 - Nov 9 with 3348 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:15 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

This beach must be so much more pleasant now that state military might has shown those violent terrorists a thing or two.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullivaikkal_massacre


Well spotted, the LTTE were indeed violent, hid behind civilians, they were noted for their use of suicide bombs, and forced children into combat.

Yes, the place is much better now. Thanks for showing an interest.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:29 - Nov 9 with 3321 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:14 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Well spotted, the LTTE were indeed violent, hid behind civilians, they were noted for their use of suicide bombs, and forced children into combat.

Yes, the place is much better now. Thanks for showing an interest.


Thanks for clearing up that in all circumstances you support state military backed violence to win through. Hope you enjoyed your toast and marmalade while coming up with your trite nonsense.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:31 - Nov 9 with 3317 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:54 - Nov 9 by DJR

This killing of a disabled man with special needs is very sad, and can't be justified.

https://www.channel4.com/news/minute-by-minute-israeli-killing-in-west-bank-visu
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 21:02]


State sponsored murder...nothing less.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:53 - Nov 9 with 3284 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:29 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

Thanks for clearing up that in all circumstances you support state military backed violence to win through. Hope you enjoyed your toast and marmalade while coming up with your trite nonsense.


Point out were I stated “ in all circumstances “ I support military backed violence?

As Lowhouse has pointed out this discussion has been mostly reasoned.

Sorry you found my comments trite. Rather that using graphic language that can create emotional reactions, I thought of a different method of contrasting civilian society and terrorists, by contrasting what was happening just before the attacks. But I get it, you’re not a fan.

Just ignore my trite posts, I won’t be offended if you don’t engage with them.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 21:54]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:55 - Nov 9 with 3278 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:04 - Nov 9 by eireblue

No, I think the sentiment is fairly clear.


You must have been very disappointed about the outcomes in Cuba, Vietnam and for the Russians in Afghanistan for starters.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:09 - Nov 9 with 3250 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:55 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

You must have been very disappointed about the outcomes in Cuba, Vietnam and for the Russians in Afghanistan for starters.


Ahh man, you are going to have to take this up Gav or Mark, I tried to do a search, so you could do some reading up on my views. But I think my posts on Vietnam have been expunged.

It was a good thread about how quite a few posters have visited the military museum in Hanoi, you really should fork out and visit it.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:12 - Nov 9 with 3244 viewsBanksterDebtSlave


"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:13 - Nov 9 with 3239 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:54 - Nov 9 by DJR

This killing of a disabled man with special needs is very sad, and can't be justified.

https://www.channel4.com/news/minute-by-minute-israeli-killing-in-west-bank-visu
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 21:02]


Another 18 killed in the West Bank today.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:04 - Nov 9 with 3190 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:53 - Nov 9 by eireblue

Point out were I stated “ in all circumstances “ I support military backed violence?

As Lowhouse has pointed out this discussion has been mostly reasoned.

Sorry you found my comments trite. Rather that using graphic language that can create emotional reactions, I thought of a different method of contrasting civilian society and terrorists, by contrasting what was happening just before the attacks. But I get it, you’re not a fan.

Just ignore my trite posts, I won’t be offended if you don’t engage with them.
[Post edited 9 Nov 2023 21:54]


I think it can be inferred when you broaden out the point to include Sri Lanka. Surely all resistance movements (whether you like/support them or not) exist within the communities they 'represent.' You seem to believe that with might being right that brutal suppression by the state and associated collateral damage/death is a cost worth paying. Ths scale of that death in the confined prison that is Gaza should be a surprise to nobody. Personally I would favour meaningful acknowledgement of underlying injusticies, dealing with them and depriving the extremists on both sides of the oxygen that they thrive on.

Your argument that even a temporary cease fire in Gaza would allow Hamas to regroup in the south is for the fairies when the IDF already have the most surveiled population in the world split between North and South and effectively control movement.

Furthermore you have not dealt with the point that the next incarnation of resistance will have an even greater hunger for vengeance against emboldened right wing settlers and government.

Your line of argument seems to be destroy Hamas and it will all be fine and what's more worthwhile....good luck with that hope.

Oh and your beach holiday reference in light of what has and is happening in Sri Lanka was vile.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:20 - Nov 9 with 3176 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:04 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

I think it can be inferred when you broaden out the point to include Sri Lanka. Surely all resistance movements (whether you like/support them or not) exist within the communities they 'represent.' You seem to believe that with might being right that brutal suppression by the state and associated collateral damage/death is a cost worth paying. Ths scale of that death in the confined prison that is Gaza should be a surprise to nobody. Personally I would favour meaningful acknowledgement of underlying injusticies, dealing with them and depriving the extremists on both sides of the oxygen that they thrive on.

Your argument that even a temporary cease fire in Gaza would allow Hamas to regroup in the south is for the fairies when the IDF already have the most surveiled population in the world split between North and South and effectively control movement.

Furthermore you have not dealt with the point that the next incarnation of resistance will have an even greater hunger for vengeance against emboldened right wing settlers and government.

Your line of argument seems to be destroy Hamas and it will all be fine and what's more worthwhile....good luck with that hope.

Oh and your beach holiday reference in light of what has and is happening in Sri Lanka was vile.


Yea, you inferred too much.

And you will also have to blame Gav and Mark about another set of posts from about 12 years ago, around the time of discussions when people discussed boycotting the Israel Orchestra.

My family and friends are Sri Lankan, I am very comfortable with the content of my posts thanks.

They could do with more tourism, you should try and take in Sri Lanka and Vietnam at the same time.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:21 - Nov 9 with 3162 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:13 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

Another 18 killed in the West Bank today.





"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:37 - Nov 10 with 3092 viewsZapers

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:07 - Nov 9 by noggin

"it's not a solution to the immediate crisis."

Neither is the current bloodbath in Gaza but you seem to be accepting of that, or at least you seem to understand it. That's where we're different.


Realistic, as opposed to Idealistic. That's the difference.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:44 - Nov 10 with 3016 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:29 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave

Thanks for clearing up that in all circumstances you support state military backed violence to win through. Hope you enjoyed your toast and marmalade while coming up with your trite nonsense.


It would appear that you’ve quickly scanned through eireblue’s post. Because I’ve re read it twice and I can’t see anywhere that he says that “in all circumstances [he] supports state military backed violence to win through”.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:04 - Nov 10 with 2993 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:44 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue

It would appear that you’ve quickly scanned through eireblue’s post. Because I’ve re read it twice and I can’t see anywhere that he says that “in all circumstances [he] supports state military backed violence to win through”.


Perhaps he can point us to incidents of 'terrorist' resistance that he has supported then where the solution was not for military superiority to win through and impose a 'peace.' (As referenced in Sri Lanka and hoped for in Gaza and the West Bank)
I can only presume you scan posts too due to all the occasions you vanish to the dentist or some such when backed into a corner and fail to answer inconvenient questions. In fact perhaps he scan reads too as he failed to respond to the other points I raised in my comments to him last night regarding ceasefire and destroying Hamas and future incarnations.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:05 - Nov 10 with 2989 viewsDarth_Koont

Today’s update. Seemingly the Palestinian human rights are still lost in the mail.

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impac

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:11 - Nov 10 with 2983 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:05 - Nov 10 by Darth_Koont

Today’s update. Seemingly the Palestinian human rights are still lost in the mail.

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impac


It's a price worth paying to rescue the hostages and delay Nethanyahoo's demise.....or something!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:19 - Nov 10 with 2976 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:37 - Nov 10 by Zapers

Realistic, as opposed to Idealistic. That's the difference.


I’d say quite the other way around.

Pretty obvious that in years to come people will wonder how the hell the illegal mass killing of women and children wasn’t just allowed to happen but was actively supported and promoted. Pushing peace for Palestinians and Israelis and any semblance of justice and equality way off into the distance.

The mistake is carrying on and further enabling Netanyahu’s and the far-right, racist ultrazionists’ vision of a region free from Palestinians altogether.

Ceasefire now!

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:57 - Nov 10 with 2942 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:11 - Nov 10 by BanksterDebtSlave

It's a price worth paying to rescue the hostages and delay Nethanyahoo's demise.....or something!


And the return of the Messiah.

Seems utterly insane that prophesies and ancient scripture form such a big part of this and especially US support. In 2023!!!

If anyone wonders why the world is still unjust for the majority and how we manage to “rationalise” that or at least push stuff like poverty, prejudice, climate change, war and as a result the low value of even children’s lives and their futures to the side, you only have to look at the shonky narratives and beliefs we choose to follow instead.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:19 - Nov 10 with 2914 viewseireblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:04 - Nov 10 by BanksterDebtSlave

Perhaps he can point us to incidents of 'terrorist' resistance that he has supported then where the solution was not for military superiority to win through and impose a 'peace.' (As referenced in Sri Lanka and hoped for in Gaza and the West Bank)
I can only presume you scan posts too due to all the occasions you vanish to the dentist or some such when backed into a corner and fail to answer inconvenient questions. In fact perhaps he scan reads too as he failed to respond to the other points I raised in my comments to him last night regarding ceasefire and destroying Hamas and future incarnations.


This feels like it is getting a bit personal and emotive, and I don’t want to react in kind, as someone once said, be the change you want to see, so I am going to boycott this part of the discussion.
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