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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 257369 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:25 - Feb 8 with 2637 viewsStokieBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:20 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue

None at all. Leitrim has been sniping away at me for a while. Of then with rather vile and libelous accusations that have been removed. I thought I'd put a retaliatory boot in.

All very childish on my part but no need for the white knight stokie. Although next time he libels me on here perhaps you'll come to my rescue? Or maybe not.


I've not seen those posts so I can't comment on them.

I would quite like flying to actually respond to what's put to him though and thought it fair enough to point out that he made the first insulting remark rather than replying to the content of peoples responses.

SB

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:35 - Feb 8 with 2594 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:20 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue

None at all. Leitrim has been sniping away at me for a while. Of then with rather vile and libelous accusations that have been removed. I thought I'd put a retaliatory boot in.

All very childish on my part but no need for the white knight stokie. Although next time he libels me on here perhaps you'll come to my rescue? Or maybe not.


Arggghhh poor GB, you want to point out the libellous comments? I have a lawyer colleague who is interested to see them.
I don't think I was even engaging with you let alone sniping. Though I guess it's no surprise you would choose defend the latest excuser of genocide
Intellect is measured in many ways as a man as wise as yerself is sure to know. We all have are specialities strong point and weaknesses.
If I ever need to know the correct temperature to deep fry a Mars bar you would be one of the first people I contact
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:37 - Feb 8 with 2590 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:20 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue

None at all. Leitrim has been sniping away at me for a while. Of then with rather vile and libelous accusations that have been removed. I thought I'd put a retaliatory boot in.

All very childish on my part but no need for the white knight stokie. Although next time he libels me on here perhaps you'll come to my rescue? Or maybe not.


Libelous lol....did you get your solicitor to contact admin?
Would this be your accusations of antisemitism and slipping masks....that sort of stuff?

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:38 - Feb 8 with 2583 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:35 - Feb 8 by leitrimblue

Arggghhh poor GB, you want to point out the libellous comments? I have a lawyer colleague who is interested to see them.
I don't think I was even engaging with you let alone sniping. Though I guess it's no surprise you would choose defend the latest excuser of genocide
Intellect is measured in many ways as a man as wise as yerself is sure to know. We all have are specialities strong point and weaknesses.
If I ever need to know the correct temperature to deep fry a Mars bar you would be one of the first people I contact


Our not are Leitrim ya fekkin eejit.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:28 - Feb 8 with 2483 viewsflykickingbybgunn

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:57 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue

Can you explain why Israel has rejected the proposed ceasefire that would have seen all hostages released?

That one of the major objectives of the war.

SB
[Post edited 7 Feb 20:09]


Again easily. There are still some of the Hamas leaders out there hiding behind children. Classy people.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:45 - Feb 8 with 2454 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:28 - Feb 8 by flykickingbybgunn

Again easily. There are still some of the Hamas leaders out there hiding behind children. Classy people.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/08/bring-them-back-freed-israeli-host

“Everything is in your hands,” a tearful Adina Moshe, 72, said in a direct appeal to the Israeli prime minister at an emotional press conference in Tel Aviv. She said she feared the remaining hostages and their families would pay the price for Netanyahu’s pursuit of “absolute victory” over the militant group.

She said: “I’m very afraid and very concerned that if you continue with this line of destroying Hamas, there won’t be any hostages left to release.”

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:35 - Feb 15 with 2209 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/top-israeli-ministers-reject-palestini

The Israeli government has rejected any plans for Palestinian statehood. The quote is pretty appalling, blaming ALL Palestinians for the October attacks:-

"We will in no way agree to this plan, which says Palestinians deserve a prize for the terrible massacre they carried out against us: a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital," Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said.“
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:41 - Feb 15 with 2188 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:35 - Feb 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/top-israeli-ministers-reject-palestini

The Israeli government has rejected any plans for Palestinian statehood. The quote is pretty appalling, blaming ALL Palestinians for the October attacks:-

"We will in no way agree to this plan, which says Palestinians deserve a prize for the terrible massacre they carried out against us: a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital," Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said.“


Worth remembering that, just as Hamas are not representative of all Palestinians, Smotrich is not representative of all Jews.

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:51 - Feb 15 with 2169 viewsBlueschev

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:41 - Feb 15 by WeWereZombies

Worth remembering that, just as Hamas are not representative of all Palestinians, Smotrich is not representative of all Jews.


Of course he isn't representative of all Jews, nor is he representative of all Israelis. His statement however is representative of every Israeli government since 1948. An independent, viable Palestinian state has never and will never be offered.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:51 - Feb 15 with 2169 viewsPassionNotAnger

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:20 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue

None at all. Leitrim has been sniping away at me for a while. Of then with rather vile and libelous accusations that have been removed. I thought I'd put a retaliatory boot in.

All very childish on my part but no need for the white knight stokie. Although next time he libels me on here perhaps you'll come to my rescue? Or maybe not.


Just consider your response if someone made a snipe at you on the thread about how scary things are for Jews around the world. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t welcome that and would be reporting to admin.

You are being as provocative as others are around an issue that is very nuanced and divisive but the net result is innocent people have been killed and continue to be killed which any reasonable person should wish to cease without descending in by childish point scoring.

It’s pathetic and beneath anyone with an ounce of human decency. And I would offer that comment to each and everyone poster who is engaging in that about this horrific and barbaric conflict (from both sides).
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:34 - Feb 15 with 2097 viewsDJR

This is sad.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:57 - Feb 15 with 2066 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:34 - Feb 15 by DJR

This is sad.



It's more than sad but not to worry there is a new cage being prepared for them on the Egyptian side of the border.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/israeli-troops-raid-nasser-hospita

'On Wednesday, the Egyptian non-governmental organisation Sinai Foundation for Human Rights reported that construction work had begun on creating a “high-security gated and isolated area” near the border with Gaza “in the case of the mass exodus of the citizens of Gaza Strip”.
Cairo has expressed alarm that an Israeli push into Rafah could force Palestinians to flee into the Sinai, potentially collapsing the historic peace treaty between Egypt and Israel that laid the foundations for the modern geopolitical architecture of the region.'

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:48 - Feb 20 with 1864 viewsWeWereZombies

On the same day that Labour changes it position on immediate ceasefire Prince William engages with the Red Cross on the subject.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68346129

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68343334

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:00 - Feb 21 with 1787 viewsDJR

France voted in the Security Council yesterday for an immediate ceasefire, but the US vetoed and the UK abstained.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:13 - Feb 21 with 1771 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:48 - Feb 20 by WeWereZombies

On the same day that Labour changes it position on immediate ceasefire Prince William engages with the Red Cross on the subject.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68346129

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68343334


If you read the Labour amendment you will see its call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire is pretty caveated.

[Post edited 21 Feb 9:16]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:12 - Feb 21 with 1719 viewsDJR

I don't often agree with any Tory, but Mark Logan got it spot on in today's debate.

"I want, my constituents want, and Gaza needs, an immediate ceasefire.

It’s not a sustainable ceasefire, it’s not a long-lasting ceasefire, which is basically just sustainably by other means …. With 28,000 now dead in Gaza, 11,500 children, playing around with words is just playing around with people’s lives.

Israel has gone too far. It’s disproportionate. It’s not gone too far just today. It’s gone too far already for months.

Members on my own side of the house have talked about how this is merely symbolic or it is virtue signalling, but at the end of the day we are MPs not to fix potholes, we are MPs not to follow up with our next door neighbour ‘the hedge has grown into my garden’. That is not what we are here for. We are here to protect lives, and this is the opportunity today to call for an immediate ceasefire.

Yes, it may just be signalling to an extent, but that signal has to be given to what we see as one of our close allies, Israel, in the region.

That has to happen today because in times gone by, with the United States back 20 years ago with Iraq, we thought we were doing the ‘good friend thing’ to go along with the United States. No, the better friend says no, this must stop now, this must stop today.

So a ceasefire must happen now, and so I no longer in good conscience can continue on backing in public the line that we have taken on this side of the house, regrettably."
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:43 - Feb 21 with 1675 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:13 - Feb 21 by DJR

If you read the Labour amendment you will see its call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire is pretty caveated.

[Post edited 21 Feb 9:16]


Iain Duncan-Smith has been speaking on Sky and said the the Tory and Labour amendments to the SNP motion were effectively the same, although expressed in different language, with Labour managing to crowbar in the words "immediate" and "ceasefire".

Putting it another way, the Labour amendment was purporting to be something it wasn't.
[Post edited 21 Feb 21:44]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:56 - Feb 21 with 1653 viewsChorleyBoy

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-re
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:52 - Feb 22 with 1545 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:43 - Feb 21 by DJR

Iain Duncan-Smith has been speaking on Sky and said the the Tory and Labour amendments to the SNP motion were effectively the same, although expressed in different language, with Labour managing to crowbar in the words "immediate" and "ceasefire".

Putting it another way, the Labour amendment was purporting to be something it wasn't.
[Post edited 21 Feb 21:44]


I make the words 'immediate' and 'ceasefire' pretty much the substance of what the rest of the World (with the regrettable exceptions of the administrations in the United States and Israel) are also calling for, So those two words have been heavily reported and even if they are crow barred in they are of utmost significance. They make Labour's position radically different to the supine posture adopted by the Conservatives. Not the first time that Iain Duncan-Smith has attempted to use the English language and failed.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:02 - Feb 22 with 1525 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:52 - Feb 22 by WeWereZombies

I make the words 'immediate' and 'ceasefire' pretty much the substance of what the rest of the World (with the regrettable exceptions of the administrations in the United States and Israel) are also calling for, So those two words have been heavily reported and even if they are crow barred in they are of utmost significance. They make Labour's position radically different to the supine posture adopted by the Conservatives. Not the first time that Iain Duncan-Smith has attempted to use the English language and failed.


But those words have to be seen in the context of the words around them, including the addition of the word "humanitarian" which further muddies the waters and arguably reflects the Government amendment's reference to a humanitarian pause..

The following is the relevant wording of the Labour amendment, which seems to me to be heavily caveated and/or open to different interpretations.

That this House ......."supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; ...."
[Post edited 22 Feb 14:06]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:18 - Feb 22 with 1496 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:02 - Feb 22 by DJR

But those words have to be seen in the context of the words around them, including the addition of the word "humanitarian" which further muddies the waters and arguably reflects the Government amendment's reference to a humanitarian pause..

The following is the relevant wording of the Labour amendment, which seems to me to be heavily caveated and/or open to different interpretations.

That this House ......."supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; ...."
[Post edited 22 Feb 14:06]


True they are covering their backs with regard to their own internal troubles and to the potential damage that media hostile to them can cause to a seemingly certain election victory. But the use of 'immediate' marks a turn in the right direction and the inclusion of Commonwealth of Nations members gives further force to the joining of an international voice for Israel to cease and desist. The problem with asking for Hamas to release hostages is that it is unlikely that Hamas hold all the hostages or have sufficient influence over the people even more extreme who do. However, just because the limpets continue to cling to the harbour walls does not mean that the tide hasn't changed.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:22 - Feb 22 with 1482 viewsZx1988

Another media outlet conflating criticism of Israel/Zionism with Antisemitism:

https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/24136162.abhorrent-graffiti-discovered-uea-

Not that I'd expect any better from Archant/Newsquest.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:33 - Feb 22 with 1433 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:22 - Feb 22 by Zx1988

Another media outlet conflating criticism of Israel/Zionism with Antisemitism:

https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/24136162.abhorrent-graffiti-discovered-uea-

Not that I'd expect any better from Archant/Newsquest.


Zionism is the belief in a Jewish state in Israel, the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People. The belief that the Jews, alone among the people of the world, do not have a right to self-determination, or that the Jewish people’s religious and historical connection to Israel is invalid, is a bigoted view imo.

Too many people are using the word zionist when what they really mean is Jew.

edit. BTW it is also bigoted to suggest that the Palestinian people do not have the right to self determination in their own state.
[Post edited 22 Feb 15:35]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:36 - Feb 22 with 1382 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:12 - Feb 23 with 1241 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:36 - Feb 22 by BanksterDebtSlave

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas


Netanyahu's post-war plan for Gaza, published in the last 24 hours, states that Israel will work to ensure the permanent closure of UNRWA.

Leaving aside the current allegations, Israel has long accused UNRWA of perpetuating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by extending refugee status to millions of descendants of Palestinians who fled or were forced out of homes in today’s Israel at the time of the establishment of the Jewish state in 1948, rather than limiting such a status only to the original refugees, as is the norm with most refugee populations worldwide.

As the following article from 2018 indicates, a shift to, say, UNHCR refugee criteria would strip refugee status from millions of Palestinians.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/shift-to-unhcr-criteria-would-strip-refugee-status

These passages from the article are illuminating and explain Netanyahu's thinking.

"At a cabinet meeting in January, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) to gradually take over the mandate of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).

Netanyahu argued that the former, the UN agency charged with aiding refugees fleeing persecution and conflicts around the world, has legitimate criteria for granting refugee status, whereas the latter, the UN body tasked with supporting Palestinian refugees, does not.

He also contended that UNRWA “perpetuates the Palestinian refugee problem.”

Were responsibility for the designation transferred to the UNHCR, millions of Palestinians would lose their refugee status — which is a key factor in the longstanding demand by the Palestinian leadership for refugees to be granted a “right of return” to today’s Israel. How many exactly of the 5.4 million Palestinians registered by UNRWA as refugees would lose that designation under UNHCR? It’s complicated, as we will see.

But based on a comparison of UNRWA’s refugee figures and the assessments of James Lindsay, a former UNRWA legal adviser who has written extensively on the differences between UNHCR and UNRWA, almost all of Jordan’s 2.2 million UNRWA-designated refugees would likely lose their status under UNHCR criteria, as would most of Syria’s 560,000 and just under half of Lebanon’s 521,000. All 2.17 million UNRWA-designated refugees in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem would lose that status were those areas to become parts of a sovereign Palestinian state. This would leave a refugee total of a little over half a million.

Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians left or fled what is today’s Israel at the time of the 1948 Arab-Israel war, known in Israel as the War of Independence. Ever since, their leadership has demanded in intermittent negotiations with Israel that they and their descendants be allowed to “return,” although Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has also said outside of the formal negotiating framework that he would not seek to destroy or drown Israel as a Jewish state by weight of such an influx.

Israel argues that the demand for a “right of return” for millions represents precisely such an effort to dramatically alter Israel’s 75 percent to 25 percent Jewish/non-Jewish demographic balance via an influx of millions of Palestinians — that is, to seek a Palestinian state in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza, and to turn Israel into a second Palestinian state. Since there are estimated to be only a few tens of thousands of original Palestinian refugees still alive, Israel has charged that UNRWA, by extending refugee status to millions of descendants, perpetuates and inflates the issue. Hence its hostility to UNRWA, and hence Netanyahu’s publicly stated support for closing UNRWA, and channelling aid to needy Palestinians via other agencies and parties."
[Post edited 23 Feb 20:18]
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