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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 468550 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:13 - Jul 19 with 3467 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:13 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue

My list wasn’t a criticism of you. There are plenty of other UN agencies that could have taken over rather than continuing to use the one that has been a front for Hamas.


This from the Telegraph was the reaction of the British Board of Deputies which was quite measured, and I wouldn't disagree with anything they say.

The Board of Deputies of British Jews said the UK’s funding to UNRWA should be accompanied by “significantly increased oversight” of its activities.

A spokesman for the organisation said: “The UK, in line with other nations who had previously suspended funding to UNRWA, have now resumed this funding.

“While we of course believe it is vital that aid is delivered directly to those who need it, we believe the resumption of such funding needs to come alongside significantly increased oversight of UNRWA’s activities.”
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:52 - Jul 19 with 3428 viewsNthQldITFC

I have no idea how significant this is, but for what it's worth my take is that you can't spend 60 odd years systematically and violently driving people out of their homes and land (or lives) and not expect it to be deemed 'illegal' at the very least, and to suffer as a consequence violent resistance until you stop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

The UN's top court has said Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories is against international law, in a landmark opinion.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) said Israel should stop settlement activity in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem and end its "illegal" occupation of those areas and the Gaza Strip as soon as possible.

In response, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the court had made a "decision of lies".

The court's advisory opinion is not legally binding but still carries significant political weight. It marks the first time the ICJ has delivered a position on the legality of the 57-year occupation.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:32 - Jul 19 with 3375 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:52 - Jul 19 by NthQldITFC

I have no idea how significant this is, but for what it's worth my take is that you can't spend 60 odd years systematically and violently driving people out of their homes and land (or lives) and not expect it to be deemed 'illegal' at the very least, and to suffer as a consequence violent resistance until you stop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

The UN's top court has said Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories is against international law, in a landmark opinion.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) said Israel should stop settlement activity in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem and end its "illegal" occupation of those areas and the Gaza Strip as soon as possible.

In response, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the court had made a "decision of lies".

The court's advisory opinion is not legally binding but still carries significant political weight. It marks the first time the ICJ has delivered a position on the legality of the 57-year occupation.


The settlements have always been illegal under international law. The current Israeli government is actively encouraging their expansion, especially with far right ultra religious settler fanatics like Smotrich and Ben Gvir being all that is keeping Bibi in power and out of jail.

Sadly, the Hamas rapes, murders, mutilations and kidnappings have put pay to any sort of change in government by more moderate Israelis. Just like every bomb that falls on Gaza creates a dozen more terrorists, every terrorist attack in Israel creates a more hardline government.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:42 - Jul 19 with 3388 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:52 - Jul 19 by NthQldITFC

I have no idea how significant this is, but for what it's worth my take is that you can't spend 60 odd years systematically and violently driving people out of their homes and land (or lives) and not expect it to be deemed 'illegal' at the very least, and to suffer as a consequence violent resistance until you stop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

The UN's top court has said Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories is against international law, in a landmark opinion.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) said Israel should stop settlement activity in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem and end its "illegal" occupation of those areas and the Gaza Strip as soon as possible.

In response, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the court had made a "decision of lies".

The court's advisory opinion is not legally binding but still carries significant political weight. It marks the first time the ICJ has delivered a position on the legality of the 57-year occupation.


If the settlements hadnt continued we probably wouldnt be here.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:48 - Jul 19 with 3357 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:42 - Jul 19 by redrickstuhaart

If the settlements hadnt continued we probably wouldnt be here.


Israel was attacked on numerous times well before the settlements started being built. That doesn't excuse them though.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:11 - Jul 19 with 3366 viewsNthQldITFC

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:32 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue

The settlements have always been illegal under international law. The current Israeli government is actively encouraging their expansion, especially with far right ultra religious settler fanatics like Smotrich and Ben Gvir being all that is keeping Bibi in power and out of jail.

Sadly, the Hamas rapes, murders, mutilations and kidnappings have put pay to any sort of change in government by more moderate Israelis. Just like every bomb that falls on Gaza creates a dozen more terrorists, every terrorist attack in Israel creates a more hardline government.


The only issue I would (lightly) take with that is the terrorist/government nomenclature, when I think that the two entities are much closer in type than that implies.

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This ain't tough love on 12:55 - Jul 21 with 3217 viewsGlasgowBlue

This ain't tough love on 08:30 - Jul 10 by WeWereZombies

A quick read for those who think all Palestinians are Hamas supporters:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx82xx9pj5do

Not that this account in any way excuses the Israeli Defence Force for their disproportionate and often illegal talionic response to the 7th October attack.


I haven't seen anyone on here once say that all Palestinians are Hamas supporters. There are many brave Palestinians who speak out against Hamas. It usually ends badly for them.

I have, however, seen posters constantly hold up Aljazeera as a credible and unbiased media outlet, when in fact it is owned by the deeply anti semitic and homophobic government of Qatar, who funds Hamas and gives refuge to their leaders living in luxury whilst ordinary Palestinian people are suffering. After watching this harrowing video, I hope they stop. Then again, they still haven't apologised for posting that the rapes on 7/10 never happened, despite graphic witness testimony and medical evidence.


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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:54 - Jul 21 with 3123 viewsBlueschev

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 18:32 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue

The settlements have always been illegal under international law. The current Israeli government is actively encouraging their expansion, especially with far right ultra religious settler fanatics like Smotrich and Ben Gvir being all that is keeping Bibi in power and out of jail.

Sadly, the Hamas rapes, murders, mutilations and kidnappings have put pay to any sort of change in government by more moderate Israelis. Just like every bomb that falls on Gaza creates a dozen more terrorists, every terrorist attack in Israel creates a more hardline government.


Every Israeli government since 67 has actively encouraged settlement expansion.
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If you want the United Kingdom to fully back a ceasefire on 18:26 - Jul 21 with 3082 viewsWeWereZombies

I was watching an interview with Agnes Callamard of Amnesty last night and after getting over the resoluteness of her approach was quite moved by how well she put forward the importance of standing up for rights in an increasingly authoritarian World. It prompted me to visit their website and sign a petition calling for a ceasefire, link below if anyone wants to do the same, they are two and a half thousand or so off their target:

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions/ceasefirenow?_gl=1*12zd1ln*_up*MQ..&gclid

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:22 - Jul 26 with 2841 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:03 - Jul 11 by DJR

I thought the line Lammy took before the election was both principled and emblematic of him and Starmer as lawyers with more respect for the rule of law than the Tories.

Whether those principles survive the grubby world of international diplomacy will be interesting to see.


Those principles did survive, which is to Lammy and Stamer's credit.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/article/2024/jul/26/britain-drops-challenge-icc-
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:27 - Aug 15 with 2633 viewsnoggin

The Palestinian death toll has now passed 40000, plus presumably many thousand still rotting under the rubble that is Gaza. Still nothing more than empty words from western governments. Where does this end?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:40 - Aug 15 with 2581 viewsreusersfreekicks

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:27 - Aug 15 by noggin

The Palestinian death toll has now passed 40000, plus presumably many thousand still rotting under the rubble that is Gaza. Still nothing more than empty words from western governments. Where does this end?


Heartbreaking isn't it.
Just imagine the furore if that death toll happened to other/most nations in the world....
Yet the US still sends arms and aid to Israel as they carry out this boundary-less murder.
Ordinary Palestinians have been grossly let down and abandoned to face Netenyahu's destructive agenda
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:34 - Aug 15 with 2462 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:27 - Aug 15 by noggin

The Palestinian death toll has now passed 40000, plus presumably many thousand still rotting under the rubble that is Gaza. Still nothing more than empty words from western governments. Where does this end?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/15/gaza-death-toll-hits-40000

Not just thousands buried under rubble but also those who died due to indirect impacts of war, including diseases, starvation and the collapse of the healthcare system.

"Among the thousands likely to appear on this list are Rania Abu Samra’s 75-year-old grandmother, Hania Abu Samra, and her 59-year-old father, Adnan Abu Samra.

Hania collapsed and died in front of her granddaughter in November, after the family walked from northern Gaza to the south in a day, Rania said. They left home on foot after the Israeli military issued an evacuation order for the area, because they had no other form of transport.

Adnan died of a chest infection less than three months later, after being turned away multiple times from overcrowded hospitals, Rania said.

She described her father as an energetic man who had managed diabetes and high blood pressure well before the war. His lungs were ruined by winter spent without heating in a makeshift plastic shelter and cooking on fires made from scavenged scrap wood and plastic. By the time a doctor saw him, it was too late."
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:25 - Aug 16 with 2363 viewsGlasgowBlue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:40 - Aug 15 by reusersfreekicks

Heartbreaking isn't it.
Just imagine the furore if that death toll happened to other/most nations in the world....
Yet the US still sends arms and aid to Israel as they carry out this boundary-less murder.
Ordinary Palestinians have been grossly let down and abandoned to face Netenyahu's destructive agenda


Absolutely horrific number. Although for some context, some 15,000 of the 40,000 quoted are Hamas terrorists. So the civilian number is 25,000.

“ Just imagine the furore if that death toll happened to other/most nations in the world....”

Over 300,000 civilians were killed in the Syrian conflict. The opposition voted down the UK proposal to intervene and save hundreds of thousands of lives. There were no 70+ page threads on here and the only marches that took place on our streets were by the Stop The War Coalition protesting against our government attempting to intervene and stop the murder and use of chemical weapons.

Back to the Israel/Gaza conflict, Israel is under attack from Hamas from the south, Hezbollah from the north and Iran from the east. With their proxies in Yemen firing off rockets. There are over 9 million Israelis who Iran would wipe off the face of the earth if Israel didn’t have the arms to defend itself. That is why the UK , the US and others continue to supply weapons to Israel.

With 15000 dead terrorist sand the recent covert attacks on the Hamas leadership I think that Israel has severely weakened Hamas and their ability to carry out another October 7th, so there is no need to continue the conflict any further. Unfortunately Hamas will not agree to a ceasefire and still holds the hostages. Likewise Netanyahu has no interest in peace, faces criminal charges when he is out of power and is propped up by ultra right wing terrorist supporters who we have no interest in peace of a two state solution so the conflict is going to continue.

Meanwhile Israeli settler terrorists act with impunity in the West Bank knowing they have the tacit approval of some in the Israeli cabinet. So Imyhink arms sales should carry some caveats in how they are used.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/15/one-palestinian-killed-as-

War is terrible and wish there was no such thing and we could all live in peace.
[Post edited 16 Aug 2024 8:35]

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:52 - Aug 16 with 2260 viewsreusersfreekicks

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:25 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue

Absolutely horrific number. Although for some context, some 15,000 of the 40,000 quoted are Hamas terrorists. So the civilian number is 25,000.

“ Just imagine the furore if that death toll happened to other/most nations in the world....”

Over 300,000 civilians were killed in the Syrian conflict. The opposition voted down the UK proposal to intervene and save hundreds of thousands of lives. There were no 70+ page threads on here and the only marches that took place on our streets were by the Stop The War Coalition protesting against our government attempting to intervene and stop the murder and use of chemical weapons.

Back to the Israel/Gaza conflict, Israel is under attack from Hamas from the south, Hezbollah from the north and Iran from the east. With their proxies in Yemen firing off rockets. There are over 9 million Israelis who Iran would wipe off the face of the earth if Israel didn’t have the arms to defend itself. That is why the UK , the US and others continue to supply weapons to Israel.

With 15000 dead terrorist sand the recent covert attacks on the Hamas leadership I think that Israel has severely weakened Hamas and their ability to carry out another October 7th, so there is no need to continue the conflict any further. Unfortunately Hamas will not agree to a ceasefire and still holds the hostages. Likewise Netanyahu has no interest in peace, faces criminal charges when he is out of power and is propped up by ultra right wing terrorist supporters who we have no interest in peace of a two state solution so the conflict is going to continue.

Meanwhile Israeli settler terrorists act with impunity in the West Bank knowing they have the tacit approval of some in the Israeli cabinet. So Imyhink arms sales should carry some caveats in how they are used.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/15/one-palestinian-killed-as-

War is terrible and wish there was no such thing and we could all live in peace.
[Post edited 16 Aug 2024 8:35]


I did say most to caveat my furore statement and still believe it to be valid.
Syria is known as a rogue nation the UK supports in no way unlike Israel, not that that helps the victims.
Not convinced a bit of UK air action would have saved 100s of thousands of lives..
How long have the rockets been coming from Yemen? Before this conflict and slaughter?
The UK and US don't supply weapons to Israel to murder civilians in their tens of thousands as far as I am aware.
Where/who does the 15,000 Hamas terrorists killed figure come from?
I don't think the non agreement to a cease fire is as one sided as you portray - thought i read somewhere that Netenyahu has attached conditions that he knows would not be agreed upon.
Plus what about the widely stated promotion of the Hamas Gaza government behind closed doors by the Israeli regime in a divide and conquer strategy
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:47 - Aug 16 with 2218 viewsDJR

I suppose the issue with the current conflict in comparison to many others is that it is a Western nation, armed and broadly supported by Western nations, which is involved and I, for one, would expect better.

But on the comparison more generally here is an extract from a recent Haaretz opinion piece, which indicates, for example, that 2% of the Syrian population has been killed over 13 years, as opposed to 10 months in Gaza. The no way out passage at the end, in particular, shows a unique feature of the war.

"The Numbers Show: Gaza War Is One of the Bloodiest in the 21st Century

As the Gaza death toll approaches 40,000, Haaretz examines the data from a global perspective. The rate and pace of deaths - as well as the living conditions of those still alive – overshadow the conflicts in Iraq, Ukraine and Myanmar

One of the favourite arguments of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and other Israeli spokespeople, is to accuse the international community of hypocrisy concerning the war in the Gaza Strip – and to claim it is ignoring other conflicts and humanitarian disasters.

"Where was South Africa when millions were killed or expelled from their homes in Syria and Yemen," said Netanyahu in January, for example. But a cold examination of the numbers killed in the Gaza Strip reveals this is one of the bloodiest wars since the beginning of the century, especially if you examine the rate of mortality out of the total population.

Close to 40,000 people have been killed in the Gaza Strip since October 7. In percentage terms that's 2 percent of the population of about 2 million people. For comparison, 2 percent of Israel's population is some 198,000 people. "In terms of the total number of dead, I assume Gaza won't be among the 10 most violent conflicts of the 21st century," Prof. Michael Spagat of the University of London told Haaretz.

"But compared to the percentage of the population killed," Spagat says he assumes it is already among the top five. Spagat is a researcher of war and armed conflict and monitors the number of casualties in conflicts. "If we factor in the amount of time it took to kill one percent of this population, then it could be unprecedented," he said.

The figures on the number of people killed in the Gaza Strip are based on information released by the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza, controlled by Hamas. Since the beginning of the fighting, the information has been examined by a large number of international organizations, governments and media outlets and there is a broad consensus that the information is credible.

At the beginning of the month, the Palestinian Health Ministry released a list with 28,185 names of those killed. The list includes four names for each person: Their first and last names, father and grandfather's names – as well as their ID number, birthdate and age. Already back then, there were about another 11,000 people who were known to have died, but their identification was not confirmed or their full details were missing. Since then, others have been added.

The figures on the number of people killed in the Gaza Strip are based on information released by the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza, controlled by Hamas. Since the beginning of the fighting, the information has been examined by a large number of international organizations, governments and media outlets and there is a broad consensus that the information is credible.

No way out
The difference that stands out the most between the rest of the wars of the 21st century and the war in the Gaza Strip is the size of the territory where the fighting is taking place, and the inability of the uninvolved civilians to flee the battles – and in particular the percentage of casualties among the overall population.

The fronts in the largest wars of this century – in Syria, Iraq and Ukraine – were stretched out over thousands of kilometers and the carnage took place in hundreds of different locations. Even more important, the civilians in those places could, even if at a painful price, flee to safer areas. From Syria, over a million refugees left for other countries, such as Jordan, Turkey and European nations. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees left the frontline regions and moved west.



[Post edited 16 Aug 2024 14:56]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 08:02 - Aug 17 with 2109 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:47 - Aug 16 by DJR

I suppose the issue with the current conflict in comparison to many others is that it is a Western nation, armed and broadly supported by Western nations, which is involved and I, for one, would expect better.

But on the comparison more generally here is an extract from a recent Haaretz opinion piece, which indicates, for example, that 2% of the Syrian population has been killed over 13 years, as opposed to 10 months in Gaza. The no way out passage at the end, in particular, shows a unique feature of the war.

"The Numbers Show: Gaza War Is One of the Bloodiest in the 21st Century

As the Gaza death toll approaches 40,000, Haaretz examines the data from a global perspective. The rate and pace of deaths - as well as the living conditions of those still alive – overshadow the conflicts in Iraq, Ukraine and Myanmar

One of the favourite arguments of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and other Israeli spokespeople, is to accuse the international community of hypocrisy concerning the war in the Gaza Strip – and to claim it is ignoring other conflicts and humanitarian disasters.

"Where was South Africa when millions were killed or expelled from their homes in Syria and Yemen," said Netanyahu in January, for example. But a cold examination of the numbers killed in the Gaza Strip reveals this is one of the bloodiest wars since the beginning of the century, especially if you examine the rate of mortality out of the total population.

Close to 40,000 people have been killed in the Gaza Strip since October 7. In percentage terms that's 2 percent of the population of about 2 million people. For comparison, 2 percent of Israel's population is some 198,000 people. "In terms of the total number of dead, I assume Gaza won't be among the 10 most violent conflicts of the 21st century," Prof. Michael Spagat of the University of London told Haaretz.

"But compared to the percentage of the population killed," Spagat says he assumes it is already among the top five. Spagat is a researcher of war and armed conflict and monitors the number of casualties in conflicts. "If we factor in the amount of time it took to kill one percent of this population, then it could be unprecedented," he said.

The figures on the number of people killed in the Gaza Strip are based on information released by the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza, controlled by Hamas. Since the beginning of the fighting, the information has been examined by a large number of international organizations, governments and media outlets and there is a broad consensus that the information is credible.

At the beginning of the month, the Palestinian Health Ministry released a list with 28,185 names of those killed. The list includes four names for each person: Their first and last names, father and grandfather's names – as well as their ID number, birthdate and age. Already back then, there were about another 11,000 people who were known to have died, but their identification was not confirmed or their full details were missing. Since then, others have been added.

The figures on the number of people killed in the Gaza Strip are based on information released by the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza, controlled by Hamas. Since the beginning of the fighting, the information has been examined by a large number of international organizations, governments and media outlets and there is a broad consensus that the information is credible.

No way out
The difference that stands out the most between the rest of the wars of the 21st century and the war in the Gaza Strip is the size of the territory where the fighting is taking place, and the inability of the uninvolved civilians to flee the battles – and in particular the percentage of casualties among the overall population.

The fronts in the largest wars of this century – in Syria, Iraq and Ukraine – were stretched out over thousands of kilometers and the carnage took place in hundreds of different locations. Even more important, the civilians in those places could, even if at a painful price, flee to safer areas. From Syria, over a million refugees left for other countries, such as Jordan, Turkey and European nations. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees left the frontline regions and moved west.



[Post edited 16 Aug 2024 14:56]


Sad that even in making the point about the speed and severity of the attack on (and from within) Gaza that a Western ('ish) newspaper blindsides the Tigray uprising and it's suppression by the central authority in Ethiopia.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:31 - Aug 30 with 1824 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

At least they'll die vaccinated....just surreal.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/aug/30/middle-east-crisis-live-israe

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:35 - Aug 30 with 1788 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:31 - Aug 30 by BanksterDebtSlave

At least they'll die vaccinated....just surreal.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/aug/30/middle-east-crisis-live-israe


That is provided the vaccines get through without being attacked, also from the link you have posted:

'The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they had carried out an airstrike on a humanitarian aid convoy in Gaza aimed at “armed assailants” trying to hijack it but the charity that organised the aid said people killed in the strike were employees of the transport company it was working with. The convoy, organised by the US-based NGO Anera, was carrying medical supplies and fuel to an Emirati-run hospital in Rafah at the time of the attack. Its route had been coordinated in advance with the IDF.'

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 10:13 - Aug 30 with 1674 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:35 - Aug 30 by WeWereZombies

That is provided the vaccines get through without being attacked, also from the link you have posted:

'The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they had carried out an airstrike on a humanitarian aid convoy in Gaza aimed at “armed assailants” trying to hijack it but the charity that organised the aid said people killed in the strike were employees of the transport company it was working with. The convoy, organised by the US-based NGO Anera, was carrying medical supplies and fuel to an Emirati-run hospital in Rafah at the time of the attack. Its route had been coordinated in advance with the IDF.'


Kafkaesque!

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:03 - Aug 30 with 1615 viewsNthsuffolkblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:35 - Aug 30 by WeWereZombies

That is provided the vaccines get through without being attacked, also from the link you have posted:

'The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said they had carried out an airstrike on a humanitarian aid convoy in Gaza aimed at “armed assailants” trying to hijack it but the charity that organised the aid said people killed in the strike were employees of the transport company it was working with. The convoy, organised by the US-based NGO Anera, was carrying medical supplies and fuel to an Emirati-run hospital in Rafah at the time of the attack. Its route had been coordinated in advance with the IDF.'


Sounds like the IDF see those delivering aid as the hijackers which appears consistent with their approach to any humanitarian assistance to Palestinian people.

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The battleground on 17:12 - Sep 19 with 1264 viewsWeWereZombies

For me, the latest turn in the battle that Israel is waging (and there is a significant defensive element to it) against its northern and southern neighbours (the southern one being occupied by Israel) brings into stark contrast the terms of war that we expect from the Geneva Convention and the different reality of modern warfare and its impact on civilians, whether they be citizens of Gaza or Mariupol or Israel or bystanders too close to a member of Hezbollah in Beirut.

The difference that is often drawn between the belligerent state actions of Russia upon Ukraine or Israel upon Gaze is that they are sovereign states with a responsibility to act in accordance with international law whilst Hamas and Hezbollah are less mandated and an act with less sense of responsibility, albeit they are also not completely autonomous in that they need Iran for a number of reasons (materiel, training grounds, diplomatic channels.) But the civilian whose home comes under attack might not care whether the belligerent is a United Nations member or not. They just want the attack to stop.

The Age of Chivalry was probably never more than a fairy tale but since the League of Nations was formed following the First World War there does at least seem to be an international desire to give protection to civilian life, but the application of the theory gets lost in the minutiae of steps of a conflict. We have had arms limitation talks such as SALT to try and push back on nuclear proliferation but perhaps now is the time for all responsible individuals to lobby for a non proliferation of smaller weaponry too.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:11 - Oct 14 with 941 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Bombs v tents today and the beginning of a partial siege in the north of the prison that is Gaza.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:13 - Oct 14 with 868 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/14/israeli-airstrike-kills-christian-

'The renewed aerial attacks come amid Israel’s latest campaign in Jabaliya, a district of Gaza City, now in its second week. An estimated 400,000 people are trapped by the fighting and Israel has not allowed any food to enter the north since the start of the month, leading the UN World Food Programme to once again raise the alarm of imminent famine.

The entirety of northern Gaza is now under Israeli evacuation orders. Among those who have remained in the north are disabled or elderly people and their families, who say it is too dangerous and difficult to move.

Israel has not allowed anyone from above what is now known as the Netzarim corridor bisecting the strip to return home; those clinging on in the north fear that if they leave, they will face the same fate.

On Monday, the Israeli-Palestinian rights groups B’Tselem, Gisha, Yesh Din and Physicians for Human Rights called on the international community to prevent Israel from carrying out the “generals’ plan”, described as a “starve or surrender” strategy that could amount to war crimes.

In a statement, the rights groups said there were “alarming signs” that Israel was beginning to implement the plan in Jabaliya, and warned that states “have an obligation to prevent the crimes of starvation and forcible transfer”.

The IDF says it has not received such orders. However, citing “senior defence officials”, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported on Sunday that the Israeli government had given up on stalled ceasefire and hostage release talks in the year-old war, and the political leadership was instead “pushing for the gradual annexation of large parts of Gaza”.'

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:24 - Oct 15 with 773 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:13 - Oct 14 by BanksterDebtSlave

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/14/israeli-airstrike-kills-christian-

'The renewed aerial attacks come amid Israel’s latest campaign in Jabaliya, a district of Gaza City, now in its second week. An estimated 400,000 people are trapped by the fighting and Israel has not allowed any food to enter the north since the start of the month, leading the UN World Food Programme to once again raise the alarm of imminent famine.

The entirety of northern Gaza is now under Israeli evacuation orders. Among those who have remained in the north are disabled or elderly people and their families, who say it is too dangerous and difficult to move.

Israel has not allowed anyone from above what is now known as the Netzarim corridor bisecting the strip to return home; those clinging on in the north fear that if they leave, they will face the same fate.

On Monday, the Israeli-Palestinian rights groups B’Tselem, Gisha, Yesh Din and Physicians for Human Rights called on the international community to prevent Israel from carrying out the “generals’ plan”, described as a “starve or surrender” strategy that could amount to war crimes.

In a statement, the rights groups said there were “alarming signs” that Israel was beginning to implement the plan in Jabaliya, and warned that states “have an obligation to prevent the crimes of starvation and forcible transfer”.

The IDF says it has not received such orders. However, citing “senior defence officials”, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported on Sunday that the Israeli government had given up on stalled ceasefire and hostage release talks in the year-old war, and the political leadership was instead “pushing for the gradual annexation of large parts of Gaza”.'


This was the Foreign Office Minister's take in the House of Commons a couple of hours ago.

"While the world turns its attention to Lebanon, we must not forget the situation for the people of Gaza: they are in a truly intolerable situation currently and winter will make them increasingly vulnerable including to communicable disease. All of Gaza’s population now faces the risk of famine. Access to basic services, safe drinking water, shelter and healthcare are becoming harder by the day.

We are gravely concerned by the situation in northern Gaza in particular. Very little aid has entered northern Gaza since 1 October. Evacuation orders continue to be issued across northern Gaza but civilians are struggling to move to safety and we are worried that the IDF-designated humanitarian zone is overcrowded and unsafe. Israel must comply with international humanitarian law and allow unfettered aid access. The message from this Government is clear: Israel could and must do more to ensure that aid reaches civilians in Gaza. It is unacceptable to restrict aid."

It was also tragic to hear a young lawyer in Gaza on the World at One say she just wants to get out of Gaza. What makes this conflict particularly awful for civilians is that they are trapped, but their leaving Gaza would no doubt play into the hand of the two Israeli Ministers that David Cameron said earlier today were being considered for sanctions when he was Foreign Secretary.
[Post edited 15 Oct 2024 15:30]
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