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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 23:16 - Jun 9 by WeWereZombies
Sadly their relatively healthy looks indicate that they were kept in better condition than local people as they were valuable for trading against any prisoners that HAMAS were able to get the Israeli forces to release (although I have not noticed any of these exchanges for a while now.)
They weren’t kept by Hamas. According to the latest reports they were held captive by a doctor and his journalist son, who worked for Al Jazeera and the Palestine Chronicle, in a Palestinian residential area.
"The doctor in charge of treating the hostages rescued from Gaza on Saturday tells CNN that the abductees were regularly beaten by their captors.
The doctor in charge of treating the hostages rescued from Gaza on Saturday tells CNN that the abductees were regularly beaten by their captors.
“It was a harsh, harsh experience, with a lot of abuse, almost every day,” Dr. Itai Pessach of Sheba Medical Center says. “Every hour, both physical, mental and other types, and that is something that is beyond comprehension.”
"The doctor in charge of treating the hostages rescued from Gaza on Saturday tells CNN that the abductees were regularly beaten by their captors.
The doctor in charge of treating the hostages rescued from Gaza on Saturday tells CNN that the abductees were regularly beaten by their captors.
“It was a harsh, harsh experience, with a lot of abuse, almost every day,” Dr. Itai Pessach of Sheba Medical Center says. “Every hour, both physical, mental and other types, and that is something that is beyond comprehension.”
Nobody doubts the psychological torment of being a hostage but Noggin's comment wasn't about that.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 20:52 - Jun 10 by BanksterDebtSlave
Nobody doubts the psychological torment of being a hostage but Noggin's comment wasn't about that.
Perhaps read the full article.
“They had no protein, so their muscles are extremely wasted, there is damage to some other systems because of that,” he says, adding that they said the supply of food and water varied, and that they were moved a few times and dealt with different guards.
“There have been periods where they got almost no food whatsoever,” Pessach adds. “There were other periods where it was a little better, but all in all, the combination of the psychological stress, malnutrition or not getting enough food or not getting the right kind of food, medical neglect, being limited to space, not seeing the sun and all of the other things have [a] significant effect on health.”
Nevertheless this is as hopeful as it has been in weeks.
'It sets out conditions for a "full and complete ceasefire", the release of hostages held by Hamas, the return of dead hostages' remains and the exchange of Palestinian prisoners.
Fourteen of the 15 Security Council members, including the US, voted in favour of the resolution. Russia abstained.
The resolution states that Israel has accepted the ceasefire proposal, and urges Hamas to agree to it, too..
UK Ambassador Barbara Woodward described the situation in Gaza as "catastrophic", adding that the "suffering has gone on for far too long".
"We call upon the parties to seize this opportunity and move towards lasting peace which guarantees security and stability for both the Israeli and Palestinian people," Ms Woodward said.'
Nevertheless this is as hopeful as it has been in weeks.
'It sets out conditions for a "full and complete ceasefire", the release of hostages held by Hamas, the return of dead hostages' remains and the exchange of Palestinian prisoners.
Fourteen of the 15 Security Council members, including the US, voted in favour of the resolution. Russia abstained.
The resolution states that Israel has accepted the ceasefire proposal, and urges Hamas to agree to it, too..
UK Ambassador Barbara Woodward described the situation in Gaza as "catastrophic", adding that the "suffering has gone on for far too long".
"We call upon the parties to seize this opportunity and move towards lasting peace which guarantees security and stability for both the Israeli and Palestinian people," Ms Woodward said.'
Looks promising despite saying,
'Monday's resolution comes 10 days after President Biden said the Israelis had agreed to the plan. But Mr Netanyahu has not yet endorsed the US proposal.'
Also do you know if the proposal is to move seamlessly from stage1 to stage 2?
If so then Hamas should accept it.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Nevertheless this is as hopeful as it has been in weeks.
'It sets out conditions for a "full and complete ceasefire", the release of hostages held by Hamas, the return of dead hostages' remains and the exchange of Palestinian prisoners.
Fourteen of the 15 Security Council members, including the US, voted in favour of the resolution. Russia abstained.
The resolution states that Israel has accepted the ceasefire proposal, and urges Hamas to agree to it, too..
UK Ambassador Barbara Woodward described the situation in Gaza as "catastrophic", adding that the "suffering has gone on for far too long".
"We call upon the parties to seize this opportunity and move towards lasting peace which guarantees security and stability for both the Israeli and Palestinian people," Ms Woodward said.'
There was doubt that Israel would accept the proposal even with Gantz in the war cabinet, but with his departure the prospects of Israel accepting the deal look pretty remote.
It feels like we have been here before without peace actually breaking out on 09:12 - Jun 11 by DJR
There was doubt that Israel would accept the proposal even with Gantz in the war cabinet, but with his departure the prospects of Israel accepting the deal look pretty remote.
'The first [phase] would involve an initial six-week ceasefire, when Hamas would release some of the hostages - including women, the elderly and the sick or wounded - in exchange for Israel releasing an undefined number of Palestinian prisoners. There would also be a withdrawal of Israeli forces "from all populated areas of Gaza" and a "surge" in humanitarian assistance.
The second phase would see all remaining living hostages released and the withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Gaza as part of a “permanent cessation of hostilities", but the latter would still be subject to further negotiations.
During the third phase, the remains of any dead hostages would be returned and a major reconstruction plan for Gaza would commence...
Mr Blinken seemed exasperated as he told a joint news conference that they had been discussing the changes requested by Hamas to the US-backed ceasefire proposal.
"A deal was on the table that was virtually identical to a proposal that Hamas put forward on 6 May - a deal that the entire world is behind, that Israel has accepted, and Hamas could have answered with a single word: 'yes'," he said.
"Instead, Hamas waited nearly two weeks and then proposed more changes, a number of which go beyond positions that it had previously taken and accepted. As a result, the war that Hamas started… will go on, more people will suffer, Palestinians will suffer, more Israelis will suffer."
Mr Blinken did not clarify what changes he said Hamas was demanding, nor did a brief statement issued by the group itself on Tuesday evening.,,
But a statement was issued by an anonymous Israeli official, who said that Hamas had "changed all of the main and most meaningful parameters" and "rejected the proposal for a hostage release that was presented by President Biden".
Despite the setbacks, Mr Blinken said the US, along with Qatar and Egypt, would "try to close this deal".
"I believe those gaps are bridgeable. But that doesn't mean they will be bridged because, ultimately, Hamas has to decide."
Sheikh Mohammed [Qatari Prime Minister and Foreign Minister] said both Hamas and Israel needed to make some concessions.'
Let down? That's pretty low! I have never placed faith in Hamas, who would. In relation to this ceasefire proposal though and who proposed it, who supports what and the politics involved well fook knows if any of us have the foggiest idea of what is going on. Regarding your link, I'm not sure an unnamed official talking about 'effective refusal' means very much at all in relation to a supposed Israeli initiative with no confirmed Israeli support at government level.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Not that this account in any way excuses the Israeli Defence Force for their disproportionate and often illegal talionic response to the 7th October attack.
Not that this account in any way excuses the Israeli Defence Force for their disproportionate and often illegal talionic response to the 7th October attack.
Hamas are no friend of Palestinians, and even in more ‘peaceful’ times have been noted to murder any political dissidents. Sadly however, Israel’s level of response to the attacks will endure that Hamas will maintain a level of support.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:15 - Jul 10 with 2601 views
David Lammy indicated during the election campaign that Labour wouldn't pursue this, so interesting to see if Labour follow through on this when now in government.
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:15 - Jul 10 by DJR
David Lammy indicated during the election campaign that Labour wouldn't pursue this, so interesting to see if Labour follow through on this when now in government.
That second Guardian link is very relevant, both because of who it is written by and because of a commendable succinctness of dealing with a complex argument.
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 06:28 - Jul 11 by WeWereZombies
That second Guardian link is very relevant, both because of who it is written by and because of a commendable succinctness of dealing with a complex argument.
I thought the line Lammy took before the election was both principled and emblematic of him and Starmer as lawyers with more respect for the rule of law than the Tories.
Whether those principles survive the grubby world of international diplomacy will be interesting to see.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 09:04 - Jul 14 with 2293 views
To return to the original question the answer appears to be "not enough yet."
'Saturday’s strikes came as US, Egyptian and Qatari mediators were actively working to narrow the divide between Israel and Hamas in a proposed three-phase ceasefire and hostage release plan. The talks were halted after three days of intense negotiations failed to produce a viable outcome, two Egyptian security sources said on Saturday, blaming Israel for lacking a genuine intent to reach agreement. The sources, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity, said the behaviour of the Israeli mediators revealed “internal discord”. According to the sources, the Israeli delegation would give approvals on several conditions under discussion, but then come back with amendments or introduce new conditions that risked sinking the negotiations. The sources said the mediators viewed the “contradictions, delays in responses, and the introduction of new terms contrary to what was previously agreed” as signs the Israeli side viewed the talks as a formality aimed at influencing public opinion.'
So somewhat more than 38,000 and ultimately heading towards 186,000 according to this...
For those who care about humanitarian assistance in Gaza, this from David Lammy is a step in the right direction.
"Humanitarian aid is a moral necessity in the face of such a catastrophe and it is aid agencies who ensure UK support reaches civilians on the ground. Unrwa is absolutely central to these efforts. No other agency can deliver aid at the scale needed. It’s already feeding over half of Gaza’s population. It will be vital for future reconstruction and it provides critical services to Palestinian refugees in the region.
I was appalled by the allegations that Unrwa staff were involved in the 7 October attacks. But the UN took these allegations seriously. I’ve spoken to UN secretary-general Guterres and commissioner Lazzarini. We are reassured that after Catherine Colonna’s independent review Unrwa is ensuring they meet the highest standards of neutrality and strengthening its procedures including unfettered.
Unrwa has acted, partners like Japan, the European Union and Norway have also now acted, this government will act too. I can confirm to the House that we are overturning the suspension of Unrwa funding.
Britain will provide £21m in new funds, some directed at supporting the management reforms recommended by the colonial review and Unrwa supports more than five-and-a-half million Palestinians; almost 200 of their staff have died through this conflict. I thank them for this life-saving work.”
[Post edited 19 Jul 2024 11:31]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:53 - Jul 19 with 1938 views
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 11:28 - Jul 19 by DJR
For those who care about humanitarian assistance in Gaza, this from David Lammy is a step in the right direction.
"Humanitarian aid is a moral necessity in the face of such a catastrophe and it is aid agencies who ensure UK support reaches civilians on the ground. Unrwa is absolutely central to these efforts. No other agency can deliver aid at the scale needed. It’s already feeding over half of Gaza’s population. It will be vital for future reconstruction and it provides critical services to Palestinian refugees in the region.
I was appalled by the allegations that Unrwa staff were involved in the 7 October attacks. But the UN took these allegations seriously. I’ve spoken to UN secretary-general Guterres and commissioner Lazzarini. We are reassured that after Catherine Colonna’s independent review Unrwa is ensuring they meet the highest standards of neutrality and strengthening its procedures including unfettered.
Unrwa has acted, partners like Japan, the European Union and Norway have also now acted, this government will act too. I can confirm to the House that we are overturning the suspension of Unrwa funding.
Britain will provide £21m in new funds, some directed at supporting the management reforms recommended by the colonial review and Unrwa supports more than five-and-a-half million Palestinians; almost 200 of their staff have died through this conflict. I thank them for this life-saving work.”
[Post edited 19 Jul 2024 11:31]
Great idea to start funding UNRWA again. Sinwar need the cash.
This will just perpetuate the conflict and more lives will be lost.
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 12:53 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue
Great idea to start funding UNRWA again. Sinwar need the cash.
This will just perpetuate the conflict and more lives will be lost.
You will note that I presaged my comments in terms of humanitarian assistance, because I would clearly not support anything outrageous that individuals members of UNWRA got up to.
But the UK is only following what many other countries have done, leaving (so as I am aware) only the US, out of prominent Western nations, maintaining its boycott.
As it is, my view is that the primary objection that the Israeli government has to UNWRA is that it confers refugee status on the descendants of people living in Palestine when Israel was formed. And such thinking pre-dates 7 October.
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:12 - Jul 19 by DJR
You will note that I presaged my comments in terms of humanitarian assistance, because I would clearly not support anything outrageous that individuals members of UNWRA got up to.
But the UK is only following what many other countries have done, leaving (so as I am aware) only the US, out of prominent Western nations, maintaining its boycott.
As it is, my view is that the primary objection that the Israeli government has to UNWRA is that it confers refugee status on the descendants of people living in Palestine when Israel was formed. And such thinking pre-dates 7 October.
My list wasn’t a criticism of you. There are plenty of other UN agencies that could have taken over rather than continuing to use the one that has been a front for Hamas.
How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 13:13 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue
My list wasn’t a criticism of you. There are plenty of other UN agencies that could have taken over rather than continuing to use the one that has been a front for Hamas.
Not according to David Lammy in the words I quoted, which reflect what I have heard repeated elsewhere.
"No other agency can deliver aid at the scale needed. It’s already feeding over half of Gaza’s population. It will be vital for future reconstruction and it provides critical services to Palestinian refugees in the region."
The more important issue though is whether the Israeli government will allow aid trucks to enter given this from the Commons earlier today.
According to the PA news agency, Kearns pressed Lammy on aid entering Gaza. She said:
"On aid, has he secured any reassurances in his meetings to increase the number of trucks going into Gaza because 70-odd a day is just not enough?
In government, we did everything we could to urge Israel to let more humanitarian aid into Gaza, opening more crossings, whether through Rafah, we trebled our own aid commitment within the last financial year, doing everything we could to get aid there by land, sea or air.”
Lammy told MPs in his reply:
"Seventy trucks a day when we know that it should be 500 is not enough and all of this House recognise the phrase ‘flood’ – we were told in April that they would flood Gaza with aid, 70 is no way near enough.”
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