| Covid vaccines available privately 15:37 - Mar 26 with 1568 views | DJR |
As someone aged 64 who thus missed out on the Autumn Covid booster, I will be very tempted to get the vaccine when they go on sale imminently at places like Boots.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/where-to-find-the-cheapest-private-covid-
I'm a sucker for punishment, and would be more than happy for a Bill Gates' microchip to be inserted into me. The only consideration is whether it is strictly necessary at this time of year given we are moving into the summer months.
As regards the Spring 2024 booster, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) advises that a COVID-19 vaccine should be offered to:
adults aged 75 years and over
residents in a care home for older adults
individuals aged 6 months and over who are immunosuppressed (as defined in tables 3 or 4 in the COVID-19 chapter of the Green Book)
However, cost effectiveness is an important factor in JCVI's advices. This makes me think that it is probably worth someone my age paying for the vaccine because they would probably give them to those 65 and over if cost were not a factor.
[Post edited 26 Mar 17:28]
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 19:07 - Mar 26 with 1377 views | Swansea_Blue |
Have you thought of moving into a care home? You’d get it for free then  |  |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 20:35 - Mar 26 with 1297 views | Lord_Lucan |
I'd forgotten about vaccines, are they still going?
What do we do, wait until our phone advises us that we need a shot - or is Covid over? |  |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 20:39 - Mar 26 with 1279 views | CBBlue |
You mention summer months. I've had covid twice and both times were during the summer.
A hundred quid seems a bit steep mind you. |  |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 21:14 - Mar 26 with 1223 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 20:35 - Mar 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I'd forgotten about vaccines, are they still going?
What do we do, wait until our phone advises us that we need a shot - or is Covid over? |
I got a letter in November to go down for my covid and flu shot. When I got there I was told that I wasn't eligible for the covid shot as I wasn't at risk or a care worker, so just had the flu shot.
You don't tend to hear about people dying of covid these days, although I'm sure some people do. 4 years ago I knew a few who died due to complications from covid. |  |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 21:29 - Mar 26 with 1186 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 21:14 - Mar 26 by GlasgowBlue |
I got a letter in November to go down for my covid and flu shot. When I got there I was told that I wasn't eligible for the covid shot as I wasn't at risk or a care worker, so just had the flu shot.
You don't tend to hear about people dying of covid these days, although I'm sure some people do. 4 years ago I knew a few who died due to complications from covid. |
You get the occasional outlier. Someone I know has just been signed off work on a disability pension as her lungs are shot after catching covid last year. Only mid-40s and that’s looking like they’re finished. Rate though I expect. | |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 07:37 - Mar 27 with 970 views | DJR |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 21:29 - Mar 26 by Swansea_Blue |
You get the occasional outlier. Someone I know has just been signed off work on a disability pension as her lungs are shot after catching covid last year. Only mid-40s and that’s looking like they’re finished. Rate though I expect. |
This from a December 2023 report in the BMJ suggests the chance of getting long Covid is much lower than earlier in the pandemic, but this still could amount to thousands of people getting it.
" A recent paper by Atchison et al. using data from the Imperial REACT study, reported that only 31% of people who had symptoms after 12 weeks recovered within a year of their infection. After one year, rates of recovery slow even further. The chance of developing long covid was highest for those infected in 2020 (approximately 23%), before vaccination, and likely on their first infection. Long covid symptoms also tended to last longer for those infected during 2020.
As 2023 draws to a close, we have tens of thousands of people who have had persistent symptoms for over three years. But people are still developing long covid following (re)infection now. While the probability of developing long covid is now low for an individual (likely a few percent), continuing waves of covid ensure that that small percentage translates into thousands affected. While many with long covid experience mild ongoing symptoms, a significant proportion report substantial impact on their daily lives, and long covid is associated with significant increases in health service use. The number of people out of work due to chronic sickness is growing, and that growth is faster than it was pre-pandemic. At least some of this will be due to long covid, with research estimating that 80 000 had left the workforce due to long covid as of summer 2022."
And this from the NHS website suggests long Covid isn't necessarily related to the severity of symptoms at the outset.
"The chances of having long-term symptoms does not seem to be linked to how ill you are when you first get COVID-19.
People who had mild symptoms at first can still have long-term problems."
Given all this, I plan to get the Covid vaccine when it becomes available privately.
Cautious? Moi? [Post edited 27 Mar 7:41]
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 08:36 - Mar 27 with 896 views | Churchman |
Being outside the age bracket for Covid vaccine and wanting one, I went through the online request and ticked ‘other’. When I saw the nurse, I had to answer a short series of questions and told her that I spent three days a fortnight looking after my dad and given his vulnerability, I needed it to protect him.
No problem at all and she told me I was very sensible to get it done. She also said the latest versions could be nasty and no respect or of age. What the truth is of that, I’ve no idea. Somebody far more clued up like SB is the go to on that sort of thing.
What I am trying to say is that if you are in contact with somebody elderly/vulnerable you may be able to get a vaccination for free, though looking at the restrictions in your pos5 for the spring booster, it looks like most of the population will be whistling dixie on this.
Re your last paragraph are decisions like who gets immunised based on medical need or cost? Given past performance I suspect the latter. ‘Let the bodies pile high’’the elderly accept their fate’ etc. |  | | |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 08:53 - Mar 27 with 862 views | DJR |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 08:36 - Mar 27 by Churchman |
Being outside the age bracket for Covid vaccine and wanting one, I went through the online request and ticked ‘other’. When I saw the nurse, I had to answer a short series of questions and told her that I spent three days a fortnight looking after my dad and given his vulnerability, I needed it to protect him.
No problem at all and she told me I was very sensible to get it done. She also said the latest versions could be nasty and no respect or of age. What the truth is of that, I’ve no idea. Somebody far more clued up like SB is the go to on that sort of thing.
What I am trying to say is that if you are in contact with somebody elderly/vulnerable you may be able to get a vaccination for free, though looking at the restrictions in your pos5 for the spring booster, it looks like most of the population will be whistling dixie on this.
Re your last paragraph are decisions like who gets immunised based on medical need or cost? Given past performance I suspect the latter. ‘Let the bodies pile high’’the elderly accept their fate’ etc. |
I was summoned for a free flu jab in the autumn at my local surgery because I was still down on their records as the carer for my mum who died a couple of years ago, and I got it because I kept my head down
Indeed, being a carer for a vulnerable person was at that time sufficient to get the Covid jab, but I couldn't pull off the same trick for the Covid jab because it required my going online and falsely claiming I was still a carer.
As regards your last paragraph it is as you suspect the latter, although the JCVI did slightly widen eligibility to account for uncertainty around the virus and care homes. Here are the relevant passages from the JCVI recommendation.
"An estimate of how many individuals need to be vaccinated, by age group, to prevent one hospitalisation, one intensive care unit admission and one death - the number needed to vaccinate (NNV) - provides a quantified assessment of the potential benefits of population vaccination. This assessment continues to indicate that the greatest benefits are obtained with programmes targeting persons of older age. These analyses of NNV were used to inform a cost-effectiveness assessment of spring 2024 vaccination.
A bespoke, non-standard method of cost-effectiveness assessment was developed to reflect the ongoing uncertainty around COVID-19. This cost-effectiveness assessment was one of the factors considered by JCVI in the formulation of its advice for spring 2024. Cost-effectiveness was considered by age group and clinical risk group.
Utilising a deployment cost of £25 per vaccine (as estimated by NHS England), the non-standard cost-effectiveness assessment for booster vaccination in spring 2024 indicated that, within the assumptions describing the most plausible projected scenario, vaccination was likely to be cost-effective when offered to the following groups:
all adults aged 90 years and over not in a clinical risk group
all adults aged 80 years and over in a clinical risk group
all adults aged 65 years and over with immunosuppression
Limitations of the existing cost-effectiveness assessment are recognised, including the ongoing high-level uncertainties with regards to COVID-19 epidemiology, the heterogeneity of risk seen in immunosuppressed people of all ages, and the high risk of exposure seen in care home settings which may not be fully captured within the existing assessment. It is also recognised that a high proportion of older adults are living with comorbidities and that vaccine uptake is higher in universal age-based programmes. Overall, JCVI considered it appropriate to offer a spring 2024 vaccine dose to a wider group of persons than identified solely in the cost-effectiveness assessment of the most plausible scenario." [Post edited 27 Mar 8:59]
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 09:21 - Mar 27 with 829 views | StokieBlue |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 21:14 - Mar 26 by GlasgowBlue |
I got a letter in November to go down for my covid and flu shot. When I got there I was told that I wasn't eligible for the covid shot as I wasn't at risk or a care worker, so just had the flu shot.
You don't tend to hear about people dying of covid these days, although I'm sure some people do. 4 years ago I knew a few who died due to complications from covid. |
The covid strains circulating now bear very little resemblance to the strains which caused the deaths in 2020 and 2021. There has been more than 100 changes to the spike proteins since then as well as a fundamental change of the virus migrating to the throat rather than the lungs which was a large factor in the seriousness of the original strains.
It's important that people take this context into account when looking back at the measures taken but unfortunately it seems that this doesn't happen in many cases.
Having the vaccine is still useful, especially if one is around vulnerable people but the combination of vaccine and natural immunity and the mutation of the virus has certainly changed things with regards to covid.
On a slightly tangential note, one of the main strains of flu which was part of the flu vaccine has been declared extinct (and removed from the vaccine). It's not be spotted in the wild since 2020 and it's theorised that the use of distancing and masks stopped it from being able to move between people as frequently as it required and thus it's now gone extinct.
"At that time, experts speculated that precautions taken to stop the spread of COVID-19 — such as masking and social distancing — had not only driven the overall number of flu cases to historic lows but may have completely snuffed out this type of flu virus."
https://www.livescience.com/health/flu/a-branch-of-the-flu-family-tree-has-died-
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 09:34 - Mar 27 with 797 views | Churchman |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 08:53 - Mar 27 by DJR |
I was summoned for a free flu jab in the autumn at my local surgery because I was still down on their records as the carer for my mum who died a couple of years ago, and I got it because I kept my head down
Indeed, being a carer for a vulnerable person was at that time sufficient to get the Covid jab, but I couldn't pull off the same trick for the Covid jab because it required my going online and falsely claiming I was still a carer.
As regards your last paragraph it is as you suspect the latter, although the JCVI did slightly widen eligibility to account for uncertainty around the virus and care homes. Here are the relevant passages from the JCVI recommendation.
"An estimate of how many individuals need to be vaccinated, by age group, to prevent one hospitalisation, one intensive care unit admission and one death - the number needed to vaccinate (NNV) - provides a quantified assessment of the potential benefits of population vaccination. This assessment continues to indicate that the greatest benefits are obtained with programmes targeting persons of older age. These analyses of NNV were used to inform a cost-effectiveness assessment of spring 2024 vaccination.
A bespoke, non-standard method of cost-effectiveness assessment was developed to reflect the ongoing uncertainty around COVID-19. This cost-effectiveness assessment was one of the factors considered by JCVI in the formulation of its advice for spring 2024. Cost-effectiveness was considered by age group and clinical risk group.
Utilising a deployment cost of £25 per vaccine (as estimated by NHS England), the non-standard cost-effectiveness assessment for booster vaccination in spring 2024 indicated that, within the assumptions describing the most plausible projected scenario, vaccination was likely to be cost-effective when offered to the following groups:
all adults aged 90 years and over not in a clinical risk group
all adults aged 80 years and over in a clinical risk group
all adults aged 65 years and over with immunosuppression
Limitations of the existing cost-effectiveness assessment are recognised, including the ongoing high-level uncertainties with regards to COVID-19 epidemiology, the heterogeneity of risk seen in immunosuppressed people of all ages, and the high risk of exposure seen in care home settings which may not be fully captured within the existing assessment. It is also recognised that a high proportion of older adults are living with comorbidities and that vaccine uptake is higher in universal age-based programmes. Overall, JCVI considered it appropriate to offer a spring 2024 vaccine dose to a wider group of persons than identified solely in the cost-effectiveness assessment of the most plausible scenario." [Post edited 27 Mar 8:59]
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Interesting. The term ‘cost-effectiveness’:
Surely, the most cost effective approach is to not offer any vaccine at all. Ok, that might lead to more hospital admissions. That’s easily solved. Withdraw all NHS treatment from over 65s. If they want it, pay for it. Why should hardworking people pay for the ‘useless mouths’? Let them ‘accept their fate’. If old, useless, non-contributing people like me want healthcare, take out insurance and/or pay for it.
This is kinder than the Spartans who just leave the crumbles on a hillside on a cold night or Hitler who classified people by race to the point of exterminating them or letting them starve under the ‘Hunger Plan’.
My sarcasm here is based around a question of what as a society do we want? William Beverage proposed in the 1940s ‘a universal system of social insurance financed by the state with contributions made by employers and employees from their pay. A flat-rate basic (subsistence) payment would be made to protect people not working through sickness, unemployment or old age.’ (Source - internet).
Two world wars showed that death and hardship had no respect or wealth, privilege and healthcare, like education was a universal right. Their Victorian predecessors didn’t believe that to the point of ‘the rough’ having different pain thresholds and senses. It was something progressive and positive from the nightmare of two world wars and the Depression.
We seem to be moving away from that and returning to our pre-Victorian forbears. It’ll be interesting to see how the new government approaches things once the current immoral scum is swept away.
Vaccination and care should be based on clinical need first and that includes effectiveness. Cost effectiveness? Not comfortable with that in relation to health care. | | | |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 10:00 - Mar 27 with 761 views | WeWereZombies |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 09:21 - Mar 27 by StokieBlue |
The covid strains circulating now bear very little resemblance to the strains which caused the deaths in 2020 and 2021. There has been more than 100 changes to the spike proteins since then as well as a fundamental change of the virus migrating to the throat rather than the lungs which was a large factor in the seriousness of the original strains.
It's important that people take this context into account when looking back at the measures taken but unfortunately it seems that this doesn't happen in many cases.
Having the vaccine is still useful, especially if one is around vulnerable people but the combination of vaccine and natural immunity and the mutation of the virus has certainly changed things with regards to covid.
On a slightly tangential note, one of the main strains of flu which was part of the flu vaccine has been declared extinct (and removed from the vaccine). It's not be spotted in the wild since 2020 and it's theorised that the use of distancing and masks stopped it from being able to move between people as frequently as it required and thus it's now gone extinct.
"At that time, experts speculated that precautions taken to stop the spread of COVID-19 — such as masking and social distancing — had not only driven the overall number of flu cases to historic lows but may have completely snuffed out this type of flu virus."
https://www.livescience.com/health/flu/a-branch-of-the-flu-family-tree-has-died-
SB |
Any idea what the likelihood (in percentage or rule of thumb terms) is of 'off the shelf' lateral flow tests testing positive if you have one of 'the covid strains circulating now [which] bear very little resemblance to the strains which caused the deaths in 2020 and 2021.' |  |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 10:11 - Mar 27 with 730 views | StokieBlue |
| Covid vaccines available privately on 10:00 - Mar 27 by WeWereZombies |
Any idea what the likelihood (in percentage or rule of thumb terms) is of 'off the shelf' lateral flow tests testing positive if you have one of 'the covid strains circulating now [which] bear very little resemblance to the strains which caused the deaths in 2020 and 2021.' |
Lateral flow tests should still work fine, the main mutations in the virus were in the spike protein as this is what is used to infect people and the beneficial mutations (from the virus perspective) all tended to be ways to get around the body recognising the spike protein and attacking it.
LFT look at the N-Protein (the case around the virus) rather than the spike protein and these proteins mutate a lot less than spike proteins so LFT's should still work as well as ever (which is another subject).
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Covid vaccines available privately on 10:36 - Mar 27 with 681 views | DJR |
Interesting article (updated in February 2024) from the US Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on vaccine effectiveness.
https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness.html
It contains the following recommendation.
"CDC recommends everyone 6 months or older get an updated COVID-19 vaccine. Vaccination remains the best protection against COVID-19-related hospitalization and death. Vaccination also reduces your chance of suffering the effects of Long COVID, which can develop during or following acute infection and last for an extended duration."
Interestingly, an article in the Guardian about this recommendation contains the following passage.
"Will I have to pay for the new vaccine?
Probably not. Health insurance will cover the cost of the booster dose for most Americans. For those who do not have health insurance – about 27 million Americans, according to the CDC – the federal Bridge Access Program will cover the cost of shots through 2024. For those who pay cash, Pfizer and Moderna have set the list price of their vaccines at $120 and $129 respectively." [Post edited 27 Mar 10:39]
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