| Downes 07:13 - May 13 with 9140 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Looked class yesterday.
Bring him home McKenna. |  |
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| Downes on 10:40 - May 15 with 765 views | Herbivore |
| Downes on 09:57 - May 15 by Pencilpete |
Neither does repeatedly saying it's ridiculous ... you can say it until you're blue in the face but you're not propping your argument up with any substance. saying something is ridiculous over and over again IS RIDICULOUS
Downes refused to play for us - that is FACT !
Downes scored 3 times in 99 appearances last time he was he - also a FACT |
Your weak sauce arguments have been countered numerous times by myself and others. You're shouting at pigeons at this point, mate. |  |
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| Downes on 10:45 - May 15 with 729 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Downes on 09:57 - May 15 by Pencilpete |
Neither does repeatedly saying it's ridiculous ... you can say it until you're blue in the face but you're not propping your argument up with any substance. saying something is ridiculous over and over again IS RIDICULOUS
Downes refused to play for us - that is FACT !
Downes scored 3 times in 99 appearances last time he was he - also a FACT |
Claude Makelele scored 2 times in 217 games for Chelsea. |  | | |
| Downes on 10:48 - May 15 with 715 views | RobTheMonk |
| Downes on 10:45 - May 15 by tractorboy1978 |
Claude Makelele scored 2 times in 217 games for Chelsea. |
People still refer to the defensive midfielder as the 'Makelele role' too. |  | | |
| Downes on 11:00 - May 15 with 687 views | Pencilpete |
| Downes on 10:40 - May 15 by Herbivore |
Your weak sauce arguments have been countered numerous times by myself and others. You're shouting at pigeons at this point, mate. |
Paul Lambert and the EADT are weak Sources ? | | | |
| Downes on 11:08 - May 15 with 669 views | pointofblue |
I don't agree with bringing Downes' goalscoring record into this as he's not kind of player but the way he pushed to leave does raise concerns with me about any potential return, as does his response to the fans being frosty towards him when he came down here with Southampton. Does his mentality suit McKenna's approach?
BUT if McKenna wants him then who are any of us to argue? [Post edited 15 May 11:50]
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| Downes on 11:33 - May 15 with 645 views | Pencilpete |
I'm going to back track slightly and explain myself a bit better because this is getting a bit childish and at the end of the day we all support and want whats best for ITFC we just have differing opinions on exactly what that is !!
My personality and take on life in general is if you $hit on me then you're out and theres no coming back i've discarded many a partner, friends and even my sister over the years so thats just how i look at things
Downes engineered a move and then refused to play, that part is undisputable and for me thats that - it's unforgivable, he's done and i don't want him here. He could be Messi and i wouldn't want him back. You can put in a transfer request like McGoldrick - i'm OK with that, I'm OK with players wanting to leave, i've wanted to leave many a job but i've NEVER refused to work or downed tools, IMO no matter what your job is you're a professional and you're paid to that job so if you want to leave fine but you do your best while you're still here and he didn't do that.
I didn't think much of him as a player when he was here, I think if you're that good you'd stand out like a sore thumb in an average League one team and he didn't for me ... he's undoubetdly improved from that to achive what he has.
But for me that doesn't change anything - he did the dirty on us and thats that | | | |
| Downes on 12:12 - May 15 with 588 views | Steve_M |
| Downes on 11:33 - May 15 by Pencilpete |
I'm going to back track slightly and explain myself a bit better because this is getting a bit childish and at the end of the day we all support and want whats best for ITFC we just have differing opinions on exactly what that is !!
My personality and take on life in general is if you $hit on me then you're out and theres no coming back i've discarded many a partner, friends and even my sister over the years so thats just how i look at things
Downes engineered a move and then refused to play, that part is undisputable and for me thats that - it's unforgivable, he's done and i don't want him here. He could be Messi and i wouldn't want him back. You can put in a transfer request like McGoldrick - i'm OK with that, I'm OK with players wanting to leave, i've wanted to leave many a job but i've NEVER refused to work or downed tools, IMO no matter what your job is you're a professional and you're paid to that job so if you want to leave fine but you do your best while you're still here and he didn't do that.
I didn't think much of him as a player when he was here, I think if you're that good you'd stand out like a sore thumb in an average League one team and he didn't for me ... he's undoubetdly improved from that to achive what he has.
But for me that doesn't change anything - he did the dirty on us and thats that |
That's a much more constructive post.
Where I differ is that I think Lambert, in particular, handled the situation badly and then there is more fault there than with an ambitious young player.
I rated FD more when he was here too but that's more subjective. |  |
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| Downes on 12:24 - May 15 with 543 views | Herbivore |
| Downes on 11:33 - May 15 by Pencilpete |
I'm going to back track slightly and explain myself a bit better because this is getting a bit childish and at the end of the day we all support and want whats best for ITFC we just have differing opinions on exactly what that is !!
My personality and take on life in general is if you $hit on me then you're out and theres no coming back i've discarded many a partner, friends and even my sister over the years so thats just how i look at things
Downes engineered a move and then refused to play, that part is undisputable and for me thats that - it's unforgivable, he's done and i don't want him here. He could be Messi and i wouldn't want him back. You can put in a transfer request like McGoldrick - i'm OK with that, I'm OK with players wanting to leave, i've wanted to leave many a job but i've NEVER refused to work or downed tools, IMO no matter what your job is you're a professional and you're paid to that job so if you want to leave fine but you do your best while you're still here and he didn't do that.
I didn't think much of him as a player when he was here, I think if you're that good you'd stand out like a sore thumb in an average League one team and he didn't for me ... he's undoubetdly improved from that to achive what he has.
But for me that doesn't change anything - he did the dirty on us and thats that |
He asked to not be selected for one game because he wasn't in the right head space. You are twisting that as him refusing to play to engineer a move. He didn't move until the end of that season and played multiple times. He was good here despite playing in sides that were largely dysfunctional, hence him having interest from the Prem. Glad we've established that you have a lot of cognitive bias going on here, perhaps you can now start to see why your opinion differs from basically everyone else. | |
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| Downes on 12:55 - May 15 with 502 views | Pencilpete |
| Downes on 12:24 - May 15 by Herbivore |
He asked to not be selected for one game because he wasn't in the right head space. You are twisting that as him refusing to play to engineer a move. He didn't move until the end of that season and played multiple times. He was good here despite playing in sides that were largely dysfunctional, hence him having interest from the Prem. Glad we've established that you have a lot of cognitive bias going on here, perhaps you can now start to see why your opinion differs from basically everyone else. |
I actually had a read up on the articles from the time and it wasn't just one game, it was several at the start of that season (at least 3 ... possibly even 4 or 5) that he 'made himself unavailable for'
I wouldn't say i'm 'twisting' anything, it's my interpretation of the situation, yours is different it doesn't mean you're twisting things either. However it's worded 'not being in the right frame of mind' (for me) in this case is roughly translated as 'refusing to play because I've got a sulk on about not getting the move I want'
Lamberts words at the time "the boy is being badly advised" to me says someone, probably his agent, has told him to refuse to play to force the move - the club and Paul Lambert may (and probably did) handle the situation badly but we've all worked for bad companies and had idiot bosses ...being a footballer is job the same as any other and you CAN'T down tools and refuse to work for the people who pay your wages no matter how much they p1ss you off
and yes...,you're right - It's my personality that means I can't forgive that and that's my issue, others may be (and probably are) more forgiving.
I have a question for you - putting his ability to one side .... Do you really think he is a good fit for our dressing room personality wise ? I don't know him, never met him ... I form an opinion based on what i see and read - other comments on here (not mine) have referred to him as billy big b0llox and 'if he was a chocolate he'd eat himself' .... is that really the type of character we want ? can we be certain if things don't go his way, he's not getting in the team or wants out again that he wouldn't kick up a fuss and ruin the atmosphere ?? | | | |
| Downes on 13:03 - May 15 with 485 views | Herbivore |
| Downes on 12:55 - May 15 by Pencilpete |
I actually had a read up on the articles from the time and it wasn't just one game, it was several at the start of that season (at least 3 ... possibly even 4 or 5) that he 'made himself unavailable for'
I wouldn't say i'm 'twisting' anything, it's my interpretation of the situation, yours is different it doesn't mean you're twisting things either. However it's worded 'not being in the right frame of mind' (for me) in this case is roughly translated as 'refusing to play because I've got a sulk on about not getting the move I want'
Lamberts words at the time "the boy is being badly advised" to me says someone, probably his agent, has told him to refuse to play to force the move - the club and Paul Lambert may (and probably did) handle the situation badly but we've all worked for bad companies and had idiot bosses ...being a footballer is job the same as any other and you CAN'T down tools and refuse to work for the people who pay your wages no matter how much they p1ss you off
and yes...,you're right - It's my personality that means I can't forgive that and that's my issue, others may be (and probably are) more forgiving.
I have a question for you - putting his ability to one side .... Do you really think he is a good fit for our dressing room personality wise ? I don't know him, never met him ... I form an opinion based on what i see and read - other comments on here (not mine) have referred to him as billy big b0llox and 'if he was a chocolate he'd eat himself' .... is that really the type of character we want ? can we be certain if things don't go his way, he's not getting in the team or wants out again that he wouldn't kick up a fuss and ruin the atmosphere ?? |
Yeah, I'd be happy to take him back. I don't see it as a risk, those making comments about his apparent attitude are drawing similar conclusions to you based on what happened here 3 or 4 years ago when he was young, at a club going nowhere, and had an opportunity to move to a Prem side. He's been a regular at Saints and Swansea since with no complaints about his attitude and I've seen nothing to suggest his attitude was poor at West Ham despite him not playing regularly. I think it shows a good attitude that he wanted to drop down to the Championship this season to play regularly rather than warming the bench at West Ham. I'd also add that I would take everything Lambert and Cook had to say with a big pinch of salt. | |
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