| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... 08:21 - Jul 23 with 3694 views | homer_123 |
Has this been covered? I mean, WTAF is going on there....why on earth are the police shooting a lone woman in her own home? |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 08:44 - Jul 23 with 3547 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
Just Googled it. That's horrific. Racism + armed police = tragedy. That poor family. 😢 |  | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 08:45 - Jul 23 with 3535 views | bobbyramsey |
Give a bigoted idiot a gun.......
What could possibly go wrong? |  | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 08:48 - Jul 23 with 3525 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
The video is a horrid watch.
I really cannot fathom why in that circumstance the police officer has shot someone. Are these people actually trained? [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 8:48]
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:03 - Jul 23 with 3439 views | Zx1988 |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 08:48 - Jul 23 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
The video is a horrid watch.
I really cannot fathom why in that circumstance the police officer has shot someone. Are these people actually trained? [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 8:48]
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I appreciate that it goes slightly against the general point of view here, but it seems a slightly complex matter.
"I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" is a phrase used in exorcisms and the casting out of demons. Looking at the video and the general transcript, it doesn't seem to be a natural segue from the previous light-heartedness about the pot of boiling water, so I don't know if it signified that the atmosphere had taken a sudden turn, especially turning towards someone else and holding a pot of boiling water whilst saying it.
Not that it, in any way, justifies the seemingly immediate decision to execute the woman. Nor am I trying to make excuses for the officers.
It feels as if law enforcement in the US has much less focus on de-escalation when compared to unarmed jurisdictions such as the UK, and it rather baffles me why US officers aren't equipped with non/less lethal options such as tasers alongside their firearms. Disregarding the rights and wrongs of drawing a weapon on the woman, surely a similar neutralisation of the perceived threat (without killing her) could have been achieved via deployment of a taser?
EDIT - I hadn't read the much more informative Guardian article before posting the above - ( https://shorturl.at/RtcwZ). The better transcript there, to my mind, leaves no excuse/reason for the continuation of the interaction after weapons had been drawn, and Ms Massey apologised/backed down. [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 9:08]
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:13 - Jul 23 with 3370 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:03 - Jul 23 by Zx1988 |
I appreciate that it goes slightly against the general point of view here, but it seems a slightly complex matter.
"I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" is a phrase used in exorcisms and the casting out of demons. Looking at the video and the general transcript, it doesn't seem to be a natural segue from the previous light-heartedness about the pot of boiling water, so I don't know if it signified that the atmosphere had taken a sudden turn, especially turning towards someone else and holding a pot of boiling water whilst saying it.
Not that it, in any way, justifies the seemingly immediate decision to execute the woman. Nor am I trying to make excuses for the officers.
It feels as if law enforcement in the US has much less focus on de-escalation when compared to unarmed jurisdictions such as the UK, and it rather baffles me why US officers aren't equipped with non/less lethal options such as tasers alongside their firearms. Disregarding the rights and wrongs of drawing a weapon on the woman, surely a similar neutralisation of the perceived threat (without killing her) could have been achieved via deployment of a taser?
EDIT - I hadn't read the much more informative Guardian article before posting the above - ( https://shorturl.at/RtcwZ). The better transcript there, to my mind, leaves no excuse/reason for the continuation of the interaction after weapons had been drawn, and Ms Massey apologised/backed down. [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 9:08]
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That phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus", was delivered in a matter of fact, non-threatening manner. Clearly on the video it is the officer doing all of the escalating and 'tone-changing'.
He's nowhere near her and the pot of boiling water. There is absolutely no 'complexity' about it, when you watch the video. She was not a threat, and the offending officer even tried to stop his colleague from rendering medical aid,if you research other articles.
Violence against black Americans is out of control. I have black friends in America who have experienced it first hand, and it's nothing like the racism that exists in the UK. It's a thousand times worse. And racist bigots over there own guns. [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 9:13]
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:15 - Jul 23 with 3329 views | Whos_blue |
Jeez. How did that escalate so quickly? Just so unnecessary.
A terrible waste of a life.
The only (slightly) good thing that seems to have come from it is the the quick response to sack and charge the officer with murder. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:24 - Jul 23 with 3261 views | Whos_blue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:03 - Jul 23 by Zx1988 |
I appreciate that it goes slightly against the general point of view here, but it seems a slightly complex matter.
"I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" is a phrase used in exorcisms and the casting out of demons. Looking at the video and the general transcript, it doesn't seem to be a natural segue from the previous light-heartedness about the pot of boiling water, so I don't know if it signified that the atmosphere had taken a sudden turn, especially turning towards someone else and holding a pot of boiling water whilst saying it.
Not that it, in any way, justifies the seemingly immediate decision to execute the woman. Nor am I trying to make excuses for the officers.
It feels as if law enforcement in the US has much less focus on de-escalation when compared to unarmed jurisdictions such as the UK, and it rather baffles me why US officers aren't equipped with non/less lethal options such as tasers alongside their firearms. Disregarding the rights and wrongs of drawing a weapon on the woman, surely a similar neutralisation of the perceived threat (without killing her) could have been achieved via deployment of a taser?
EDIT - I hadn't read the much more informative Guardian article before posting the above - ( https://shorturl.at/RtcwZ). The better transcript there, to my mind, leaves no excuse/reason for the continuation of the interaction after weapons had been drawn, and Ms Massey apologised/backed down. [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 9:08]
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The link didn't work.
Article here.
It's a tough read.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/22/sonya-massey-illinois-sh | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:27 - Jul 23 with 3257 views | Guthrum |
Difficult to tell if he's an idiot, a racist, drunk (given previous DUI convictions) or any combination of those. Totally out of control, whatever.
Has rightly been arrested and charged with murder. |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:35 - Jul 23 with 3203 views | Keno |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:27 - Jul 23 by Guthrum |
Difficult to tell if he's an idiot, a racist, drunk (given previous DUI convictions) or any combination of those. Totally out of control, whatever.
Has rightly been arrested and charged with murder. |
Can I suggest he is probably a drug, racist idiot with a gun |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 13:44 - Jul 23 with 2816 views | Illinoisblue |
That is horrific. Idiot cop has taken a life and ruined his own, all for what? No threat at all. The police unions usually come out and support their members. Not sure that can reasonably happen here. |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 13:46 - Jul 23 with 2800 views | Zx1988 |
It surprises me that the BBC article doesn't contain the additional information that the Guardian decided to put to print.
The details of the aftermath are particularly sickening, and rather lend credence to any argument that the officer simply decided that his victim simply had to die. | |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 15:18 - Jul 23 with 2633 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 08:45 - Jul 23 by bobbyramsey |
Give a bigoted idiot a gun.......
What could possibly go wrong? |
Unfortunately it all feeds into the great American narrative. That they are the only country with freedom, everyone is jealous of them, everyone is a threat to them and that there are threats around every corner who actively want to kill them and their whole family and take everything they have.
Until this ends, (and they are taught it from birth), this will never end. |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 15:46 - Jul 23 with 2553 views | LeoMuff |
Absolutely shocking footage, treated her like dirt from the moment she opened the door, culminating in the most unnecessary escalation imaginable, she posed no threat - even if she meant to be one, which 8 highly doubt. Went from warning to shooting in seconds, awful. |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 19:56 - Jul 23 with 2267 views | Europablue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 09:03 - Jul 23 by Zx1988 |
I appreciate that it goes slightly against the general point of view here, but it seems a slightly complex matter.
"I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" is a phrase used in exorcisms and the casting out of demons. Looking at the video and the general transcript, it doesn't seem to be a natural segue from the previous light-heartedness about the pot of boiling water, so I don't know if it signified that the atmosphere had taken a sudden turn, especially turning towards someone else and holding a pot of boiling water whilst saying it.
Not that it, in any way, justifies the seemingly immediate decision to execute the woman. Nor am I trying to make excuses for the officers.
It feels as if law enforcement in the US has much less focus on de-escalation when compared to unarmed jurisdictions such as the UK, and it rather baffles me why US officers aren't equipped with non/less lethal options such as tasers alongside their firearms. Disregarding the rights and wrongs of drawing a weapon on the woman, surely a similar neutralisation of the perceived threat (without killing her) could have been achieved via deployment of a taser?
EDIT - I hadn't read the much more informative Guardian article before posting the above - ( https://shorturl.at/RtcwZ). The better transcript there, to my mind, leaves no excuse/reason for the continuation of the interaction after weapons had been drawn, and Ms Massey apologised/backed down. [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 9:08]
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She was clearly mentally ill. There is definitely an understandable concern about being a police officer and being killed in action because it happens a lot. The thing is, a policeman cannot be twitchy, and the shoot first ask questions later response is only suitable when there is a clear threat of a knife or a gun. Hot water at a distance is not that dangerous. I also don't understand why in that instance, they can't just disable her so that she is no longer a threat, so aim for a limb.
Whether something is likely or not, headline writers should not jump to conclusions before any evidence is provided. "Black woman killed by white cop" is factual, but bringing race into the equation is inflammatory. In similar circumstances, some editors refuse to call someone a suspected terrorist before overwhelming evidence is provided.
The best course of action is not to mention race before race is confirmed as a factor. | | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:07 - Jul 23 with 2224 views | Europablue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 15:18 - Jul 23 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Unfortunately it all feeds into the great American narrative. That they are the only country with freedom, everyone is jealous of them, everyone is a threat to them and that there are threats around every corner who actively want to kill them and their whole family and take everything they have.
Until this ends, (and they are taught it from birth), this will never end. |
I'm not sure what you are talking about there.
Police officers are going into life-threatening situations every day. They come into contact with the worst of the worst and are in constant danger. They also come into contact with normal citizens. In this case from all accounts a woman who called for their help, who happened to be mentally disturbed. You could definitely argue that her threatening behaviour was deserving of rough treatment or a tasering, but that shoot first think later mentality has to end. | | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:14 - Jul 23 with 2209 views | WeWereZombies |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 19:56 - Jul 23 by Europablue |
She was clearly mentally ill. There is definitely an understandable concern about being a police officer and being killed in action because it happens a lot. The thing is, a policeman cannot be twitchy, and the shoot first ask questions later response is only suitable when there is a clear threat of a knife or a gun. Hot water at a distance is not that dangerous. I also don't understand why in that instance, they can't just disable her so that she is no longer a threat, so aim for a limb.
Whether something is likely or not, headline writers should not jump to conclusions before any evidence is provided. "Black woman killed by white cop" is factual, but bringing race into the equation is inflammatory. In similar circumstances, some editors refuse to call someone a suspected terrorist before overwhelming evidence is provided.
The best course of action is not to mention race before race is confirmed as a factor. |
There has been sixteen days between this sad death and The Guardian article, I think that is enough time for a responsible journalist to establish what is going on in Springfield, Illinois. You may not like the conclusions but if you have ever travelled in mid America I think you will know that there is still a seemingly unbridgeable divide between black people and some white people. It doesn't serve any purpose to try and sweep it under the carpet. |  |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:36 - Jul 23 with 2162 views | Whos_blue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:07 - Jul 23 by Europablue |
I'm not sure what you are talking about there.
Police officers are going into life-threatening situations every day. They come into contact with the worst of the worst and are in constant danger. They also come into contact with normal citizens. In this case from all accounts a woman who called for their help, who happened to be mentally disturbed. You could definitely argue that her threatening behaviour was deserving of rough treatment or a tasering, but that shoot first think later mentality has to end. |
I note that you start your response to Chelters by questioning what he's talking about.
I have to throw that back at you mate.
What in the dickens do you mean when you state her threatening behaviour arguably deserved rough treatment?
Care to share your workings on that mate?
It doesn't matter what way I try to look at it, I never get anywhere near that conclusion.
I just don't see where her actions were in any way aggressive. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 0:01]
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 21:08 - Jul 23 with 2102 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:07 - Jul 23 by Europablue |
I'm not sure what you are talking about there.
Police officers are going into life-threatening situations every day. They come into contact with the worst of the worst and are in constant danger. They also come into contact with normal citizens. In this case from all accounts a woman who called for their help, who happened to be mentally disturbed. You could definitely argue that her threatening behaviour was deserving of rough treatment or a tasering, but that shoot first think later mentality has to end. |
Given your right leaning comments previously, I’m not at all surprised you’ve supported the officers and found some ‘threatening’ behaviour from a defenceless woman. | |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 22:13 - Jul 23 with 2005 views | Xatticus |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 21:08 - Jul 23 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Given your right leaning comments previously, I’m not at all surprised you’ve supported the officers and found some ‘threatening’ behaviour from a defenceless woman. |
The poster is demonstrating the mechanism that permits these acts to continue. There is a segment of the population that offers unwavering support to the police or military. They extend to them every benefit of doubt and apologize for every misdeed committed. | | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 23:01 - Jul 23 with 1925 views | Europablue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:14 - Jul 23 by WeWereZombies |
There has been sixteen days between this sad death and The Guardian article, I think that is enough time for a responsible journalist to establish what is going on in Springfield, Illinois. You may not like the conclusions but if you have ever travelled in mid America I think you will know that there is still a seemingly unbridgeable divide between black people and some white people. It doesn't serve any purpose to try and sweep it under the carpet. |
I didn't know that is was that long ago. Then the question is, why hasn't any proof of racism been presented? Has there been any official accusations of racist intent? How do we know the motive. None of us know the full story, but it certainly sounds like a shocking injustice. The most damming part being the accusation that medical treatment was denied. | | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 23:07 - Jul 23 with 1911 views | Europablue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 20:36 - Jul 23 by Whos_blue |
I note that you start your response to Chelters by questioning what he's talking about.
I have to throw that back at you mate.
What in the dickens do you mean when you state her threatening behaviour arguably deserved rough treatment?
Care to share your workings on that mate?
It doesn't matter what way I try to look at it, I never get anywhere near that conclusion.
I just don't see where her actions were in any way aggressive. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 0:01]
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I questioning him because he went on a rant about Americans only being out for themselves.
If the woman is threatening to throw boiling water at the police officers that that is violent intent. She would be inviting an equally violent response. I'm not saying I know what happened, but it sounds like she was threatening to throw scolding water at them, so that would warrant a taser or some other non-lethal measure. What they should have done though, is kept their distance so that they would be out of range of scolding water and attempted to deescalate. | | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 23:12 - Jul 23 with 1896 views | Europablue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 22:13 - Jul 23 by Xatticus |
The poster is demonstrating the mechanism that permits these acts to continue. There is a segment of the population that offers unwavering support to the police or military. They extend to them every benefit of doubt and apologize for every misdeed committed. |
It's not unwavering support at all. It is an acknowledgement that police risk their lives and have a solemn duty and responsibility. It is also a requirement for proof of all accusations. From what people said and the video, it sounds like she threatened to scold them with the hot water, she also appears to be mentally unwell. It is necessary to accept that there was a low level threat and the response seemed excessive and murder seems like a suitable charge, although I don't have all the facts.
Just follow the facts and don't add in your own prejudices for or against the police or for against people based on their colour. | | | |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 00:09 - Jul 24 with 1843 views | Whos_blue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 23:07 - Jul 23 by Europablue |
I questioning him because he went on a rant about Americans only being out for themselves.
If the woman is threatening to throw boiling water at the police officers that that is violent intent. She would be inviting an equally violent response. I'm not saying I know what happened, but it sounds like she was threatening to throw scolding water at them, so that would warrant a taser or some other non-lethal measure. What they should have done though, is kept their distance so that they would be out of range of scolding water and attempted to deescalate. |
100% they should've tried de-escalate.
I didn't see any action with the boiling water that could in any way be deemed as threatening.
Yes she mumbled some mumbo jumbo about Jesus, at no point did she demonstrate any threatening behavior.
In fact, the footage clearly shows her trying to put the pan dowm when the officer opened fire.
Whilst I agree a less lethal use of force such as a taser would have been a whole lot better, but that situation xould've been handled without the use of any force at all.
I think that's where we're differing on the issue. | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 07:54 - Jul 24 with 1633 views | Europablue |
| Sonya Massey, in the US, killed by police officers.... on 00:09 - Jul 24 by Whos_blue |
100% they should've tried de-escalate.
I didn't see any action with the boiling water that could in any way be deemed as threatening.
Yes she mumbled some mumbo jumbo about Jesus, at no point did she demonstrate any threatening behavior.
In fact, the footage clearly shows her trying to put the pan dowm when the officer opened fire.
Whilst I agree a less lethal use of force such as a taser would have been a whole lot better, but that situation xould've been handled without the use of any force at all.
I think that's where we're differing on the issue. |
No I also think that no force was necessary. Even grabbing her and cuffing her seems too much.
I'm just saying that I do appreciate the danger police officers put themselves in, especially in America where guns are so readily available and she could have had a gun on the side, so the officers have to be vigilant at all times. I also accepted that the police in some parts of America are what an Englishman might consider rude, especially on road side stop.
Suffice to say, there must be a very high threshold for opening fire and there is no excuse for denying/not providing first aid as long as the area is not an active scene and it is not safe to intervene. | | | |
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