| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah 22:39 - Sep 25 with 11847 views | WicklowBlue |
Wanted to start a new thread on the history behind where things are today.
I am no historian nor ever really had a deep insight into what has led up to recent times.
I read this article earlier today which I thought was insightful personally in terms of historical context so thought I'd share for hopefully a reseasoned discussion: (namely not picking sides, as all have done abhorrent things to each other, and honestly no agenda on my behalf)
RTE news : What happened when Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982?
http://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0925/1471773-israel-lebanon-invasion-1982-oper |  | | |  |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 18:54 - Sep 26 with 2416 views | Bobbychase |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 18:43 - Sep 26 by Guthrum |
The Philistines (or, at least, the upper echelons of that society) may not have been semitic at all. The Sea Peoples are conjectured to have come from the Aegean or north of that, possibly associated with the so-called "Dorian Invasion" during the Late Bronze Age Collapse.
Regional names can also long survive the demise of their former occupants/rulers. Romania, for example. Named after the (Eastern/Byzantine) Romans, who haven't controlled the area for over 1,300 years and whose population was largely displaced by slavs (eventually). |
But should Woolfenden start or O'Shea. |  |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 19:06 - Sep 26 with 2357 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 18:48 - Sep 26 by Bobbychase |
If it walks like a terrorist, talks like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist....etc |
On the subject of terrorism, BBC2 is broadcasting tonight at 9pm "Surviving October 7th: We Will Dance Again” The Nova festival massacre.
I'd urge everybody to watch in order to fully understand the horror of what happened that day. Sadly, the condition the BBC made to the producers in order to broadcast this documentary was that they could not call Hamas terrorists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0023b3m |  |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 19:10 - Sep 26 with 2352 views | Bobbychase |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 19:06 - Sep 26 by GlasgowBlue |
On the subject of terrorism, BBC2 is broadcasting tonight at 9pm "Surviving October 7th: We Will Dance Again” The Nova festival massacre.
I'd urge everybody to watch in order to fully understand the horror of what happened that day. Sadly, the condition the BBC made to the producers in order to broadcast this documentary was that they could not call Hamas terrorists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0023b3m |
The frustrating thing about all debate on this subject is that it has been forgotten that it is possible to believe Netenyahu is a war criminal, but also that Hamas and Hezbollah are cruel murderers who do their own people no good, in fact use them to further their own ends. Everyone gets silo'd off into different groups as if it is not possible to have a mixture of thoughts. | |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 19:20 - Sep 26 with 2326 views | DJR |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 18:43 - Sep 26 by Guthrum |
The Philistines (or, at least, the upper echelons of that society) may not have been semitic at all. The Sea Peoples are conjectured to have come from the Aegean or north of that, possibly associated with the so-called "Dorian Invasion" during the Late Bronze Age Collapse.
Regional names can also long survive the demise of their former occupants/rulers. Romania, for example. Named after the (Eastern/Byzantine) Romans, who haven't controlled the area for over 1,300 years and whose population was largely displaced by slavs (eventually). |
Probably better to rely on genetics for this sort of thing rather than dubious historicity from a time when records were scant, written by the victor or intended as foundation myths.
The following I posted above indicates that the Sea People's had a limited influence on the genetic make up of current day Palestinians.
A 2020 study on human remains from Middle Bronze Age Palestinian (2100–1550 BC) populations suggests a significant degree of genetic continuity in Arabic-speaking Levantine populations (such as Palestinians, Druze, Lebanese, Jordanians, Bedouins, and Syrians), as well as several Jewish groups (such as Ashkenazi, Iranian, and Moroccan Jews). Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81–87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as Kura–Araxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE (4400 years before present); 8–12% from an East African source and 5–10% from Bronze age Europeans. Results show that a significant European component was added to the region since the Bronze Age (on average ~8.7%), seemingly related to the Sea Peoples, excluding Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews who harbour ~ 41% and 31% European-related ancestry respectively, both populations having a history in Europe.
[Post edited 26 Sep 2024 19:31]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:13 - Sep 26 with 2249 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 19:10 - Sep 26 by Bobbychase |
The frustrating thing about all debate on this subject is that it has been forgotten that it is possible to believe Netenyahu is a war criminal, but also that Hamas and Hezbollah are cruel murderers who do their own people no good, in fact use them to further their own ends. Everyone gets silo'd off into different groups as if it is not possible to have a mixture of thoughts. |
Indeed, their declining support in Lebanon is perhaps unsurprising - some people aren’t overly keen on being used as a human shield, or having their kids recruited:-
“ Human Rights Watch’s research found that on a number of occasions Hezbollah unjustifiably endangered Lebanese civilians by storing weapons in civilian homes, firing rockets from populated areas, and allowing its fighters to operate from civilian homes. Hezbollah also used children as active combatants, another violation of the law.”
Hezbollah do not speak, or act for the majority of the Lebanese people, which is tragic given the increasing civilian casualties. Unfortunately the Lebanese military isn’t strong enough to secure the border with Syria where Iranian arms are smuggled in, or the South where Hezbollah have launched nearly 10k shells, missiles, and drones since last October. UN peacekeepers on the border have been killed by Hezbollah before, and I’m sure are in increasing danger from both sides as the situation escalates. |  | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:28 - Sep 26 with 2214 views | Blueschev |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 15:55 - Sep 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Firstly, could you please point out the inaccuracies in my post. Secondly, as you well know, I am an advocate of a two state solution so your final sentence is disingenuous.
That doesn't change the historical facts regarding that particular area of land.No matter how inconvenient those historical facts may be to some.
Getting back to partition. India was partitioned in the same year as British Mandate Palestine into India, East Pakistan and West Pakistan. More than 15 million people were uprooted, and between one and two million were killed, which he never hear of. However, despite the tensions that exist today, all sides made it work. It could have also worked in the long term with a two state solution to British Mandate Palestine. [Post edited 26 Sep 2024 16:02]
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I’m struggling to understand the relevance of your post? It has nothing to do with the contemporary situation and is referring to a time when the nation state wasn’t even a concept. I’ve also seen it written dozens of times online by people who wish to discredit the Palestinians claim to a state of their own. Frankly, it’s a Putin-esque justification for a land grab. |  | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:38 - Sep 26 with 2190 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:28 - Sep 26 by Blueschev |
I’m struggling to understand the relevance of your post? It has nothing to do with the contemporary situation and is referring to a time when the nation state wasn’t even a concept. I’ve also seen it written dozens of times online by people who wish to discredit the Palestinians claim to a state of their own. Frankly, it’s a Putin-esque justification for a land grab. |
Again, you are being disingenuous. It was relevant to Guthrum's reply to you: "the region had been ruled by the Ottomans (who frequently oppressed the Arabs), then the British, then (briefly) the United Nations, so it would have meant the first establishment of their own state, not the division of something they formerly administered". | |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:51 - Sep 26 with 2161 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 19:10 - Sep 26 by Bobbychase |
The frustrating thing about all debate on this subject is that it has been forgotten that it is possible to believe Netenyahu is a war criminal, but also that Hamas and Hezbollah are cruel murderers who do their own people no good, in fact use them to further their own ends. Everyone gets silo'd off into different groups as if it is not possible to have a mixture of thoughts. |
The really frustrating thing is that some can see that some of the actions that could justify calling Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists such as the indiscriminate killing of civilians also apply to the actions of the current Israeli state in thrall to Netanyahu's extreme right wing government yet balk at the notion of calling those actions terrorism too. Strange isn't it.
I see GB still hasn't backed up his spurious claims anyway but par for the course since October 7th tbf. |  |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:52 - Sep 26 with 2156 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:38 - Sep 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Again, you are being disingenuous. It was relevant to Guthrum's reply to you: "the region had been ruled by the Ottomans (who frequently oppressed the Arabs), then the British, then (briefly) the United Nations, so it would have meant the first establishment of their own state, not the division of something they formerly administered". |
"Disingenuous " you say....oh, sweet irony! | |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:53 - Sep 26 with 2158 views | Blueschev |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:38 - Sep 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Again, you are being disingenuous. It was relevant to Guthrum's reply to you: "the region had been ruled by the Ottomans (who frequently oppressed the Arabs), then the British, then (briefly) the United Nations, so it would have meant the first establishment of their own state, not the division of something they formerly administered". |
I don’t think Guthrum’s point was relevant either to be honest. My point was that it wasn’t surprising or unreasonable for the Palestinian Arabs to reject a partition plan unfavourable to them. The fact that they had previously been occupied by colonial powers doesn’t mean they should just accept a plan imposed on them from outside powers. | | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:55 - Sep 26 with 2138 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 20:53 - Sep 26 by Blueschev |
I don’t think Guthrum’s point was relevant either to be honest. My point was that it wasn’t surprising or unreasonable for the Palestinian Arabs to reject a partition plan unfavourable to them. The fact that they had previously been occupied by colonial powers doesn’t mean they should just accept a plan imposed on them from outside powers. |
But my post was relevant to Guthrum's. | |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:26 - Sep 28 with 1926 views | DJR |
If reports are true, I can't see many people shedding a tear for the death of the Hezbollah leader, but the following (which I heard on the World Service earlier today) seems difficult to justify.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c4g9dx20z21o | | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:29 - Sep 28 with 1906 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:26 - Sep 28 by DJR |
If reports are true, I can't see many people shedding a tear for the death of the Hezbollah leader, but the following (which I heard on the World Service earlier today) seems difficult to justify.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c4g9dx20z21o |
Not yet verified, but he’s likely to be replaced by somebody as despicable. It’s probably not going to change the situation on the ground whether confirmed or not. | | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:32 - Sep 28 with 1895 views | DJR |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:29 - Sep 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not yet verified, but he’s likely to be replaced by somebody as despicable. It’s probably not going to change the situation on the ground whether confirmed or not. |
I am not sure about that. I think the intensity of the Israeli attacks in the last week or so has severely weakened Hezbollah's military capability, apart from being resistance fighters in the event of an Israeli invasion. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 12:37]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:33 - Sep 28 with 1875 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:29 - Sep 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not yet verified, but he’s likely to be replaced by somebody as despicable. It’s probably not going to change the situation on the ground whether confirmed or not. |
The Israelis have taken out the entire command structure of Hezbollah over the past week or so. They are going to have to over promote quite a few of the lower ranks to replace them.
One would hope that Hezbollah have been weakened in the same way ISIS and Al-Qaeda were when their top people were eliminated.
There is also a great opportunity for the people of Lebanon to take back control of their country again. | |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:38 - Sep 28 with 1859 views | DJR |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:33 - Sep 28 by GlasgowBlue |
The Israelis have taken out the entire command structure of Hezbollah over the past week or so. They are going to have to over promote quite a few of the lower ranks to replace them.
One would hope that Hezbollah have been weakened in the same way ISIS and Al-Qaeda were when their top people were eliminated.
There is also a great opportunity for the people of Lebanon to take back control of their country again. |
I think it goes beyond command structure, with things like communications now being a problem, and presumably a lot of rockets etc taken out of operation.
Indeed, the Israelis have shown overwhelming military strength both offensively and defensively, and it seems to have left both Hezbollah and Iran not knowing what to do.
Of course, maybe I am tempting fate, but I don't see this the escalating into a wider war, although that will not necessarily be a comfort to those living in Lebanon. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 12:42]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:57 - Sep 28 with 1810 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:38 - Sep 28 by DJR |
I think it goes beyond command structure, with things like communications now being a problem, and presumably a lot of rockets etc taken out of operation.
Indeed, the Israelis have shown overwhelming military strength both offensively and defensively, and it seems to have left both Hezbollah and Iran not knowing what to do.
Of course, maybe I am tempting fate, but I don't see this the escalating into a wider war, although that will not necessarily be a comfort to those living in Lebanon. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 12:42]
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They are not severely weakened as a fighting force, people tend to view them as a few plucky fighters with assault rifles - in reality they are more heavily armed than most states in the Middle East, a few days of airstrike is not going to degrade them (other than command structure). Many are also battle hardened from the Syrian Civil War. Hezbollah simply haven’t ’opened up’ as yet. The aim will have been to draw the IDF into urban warfare where Hezbollah would hold the advantage. In terms of armament however, they still have over 100k missiles to draw upon. Most of their equipment is mobile, so they can simply launch a salvo and move off before fire is returned by Israel. To date they have used a lot of cheap drones to degrade Israel’s supplies of missiles for the Iron Dome. The drones cost a few thousand at most, whilst to shoot down they cost hundreds of thousands for each missle. Both Iran, and the Houthi’s have used similar tactics.
If Hezbollah and allies decide to launch simultaneous large scale missile attacks then the Iron Dome could be overwhelmed. Iran has distributed over a 1/4 million missile to their proxies and allies in the region - it’s estimated it would take less than 10pc of Hezbollahs inventory for the iron dome to be overwhelmed. The Iranian attack in April was in danger of evading Israel’s defences without Western intervention The dozens of hypersonic missiles was multitudes bigger than any Russian attack on Ukraine. Hezbollah and allies may yet ramp up missile attacks to try and lure Israel into a ground incursion- and let’s be honest it wouldn’t be a shock if Netanyahu took the bait.
“The question now is how Hezbollah – and Iran – will respond. They might now be concluding that if they don’t hit back hard they will be facing a strategic defeat.”
The above is how I see things right now.
[Post edited 28 Sep 2024 13:22]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 13:08 - Sep 28 with 1782 views | Swansea_Blue |
Blimey, they’ve chopped the head off the snake. Nasrallah’s done for apparently. Not that I’d take it on face value.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981g8mrl8lt
Oops, should have read before posting. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 13:11]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 13:09 - Sep 28 with 1779 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:38 - Sep 28 by DJR |
I think it goes beyond command structure, with things like communications now being a problem, and presumably a lot of rockets etc taken out of operation.
Indeed, the Israelis have shown overwhelming military strength both offensively and defensively, and it seems to have left both Hezbollah and Iran not knowing what to do.
Of course, maybe I am tempting fate, but I don't see this the escalating into a wider war, although that will not necessarily be a comfort to those living in Lebanon. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 12:42]
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Just to add I agree with your last paragraph. The conflict in Lebanon may yet escalate but Iran is happy to let their proxies and allies do the fighting in line with their approach to foreign policy. Domestically, they have a new unpopular President who was elected on a record low turnout (albeit he’s largely a puppet anyway). Additionally, there are considerable economic troubles due to the instability in the region and ongoing sanctions. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 13:13]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 14:13 - Sep 28 with 1710 views | DJR |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 12:57 - Sep 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
They are not severely weakened as a fighting force, people tend to view them as a few plucky fighters with assault rifles - in reality they are more heavily armed than most states in the Middle East, a few days of airstrike is not going to degrade them (other than command structure). Many are also battle hardened from the Syrian Civil War. Hezbollah simply haven’t ’opened up’ as yet. The aim will have been to draw the IDF into urban warfare where Hezbollah would hold the advantage. In terms of armament however, they still have over 100k missiles to draw upon. Most of their equipment is mobile, so they can simply launch a salvo and move off before fire is returned by Israel. To date they have used a lot of cheap drones to degrade Israel’s supplies of missiles for the Iron Dome. The drones cost a few thousand at most, whilst to shoot down they cost hundreds of thousands for each missle. Both Iran, and the Houthi’s have used similar tactics.
If Hezbollah and allies decide to launch simultaneous large scale missile attacks then the Iron Dome could be overwhelmed. Iran has distributed over a 1/4 million missile to their proxies and allies in the region - it’s estimated it would take less than 10pc of Hezbollahs inventory for the iron dome to be overwhelmed. The Iranian attack in April was in danger of evading Israel’s defences without Western intervention The dozens of hypersonic missiles was multitudes bigger than any Russian attack on Ukraine. Hezbollah and allies may yet ramp up missile attacks to try and lure Israel into a ground incursion- and let’s be honest it wouldn’t be a shock if Netanyahu took the bait.
“The question now is how Hezbollah – and Iran – will respond. They might now be concluding that if they don’t hit back hard they will be facing a strategic defeat.”
The above is how I see things right now.
[Post edited 28 Sep 2024 13:22]
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I am not a military expert, but what I say seems to accord with the following.
This from CBS.
"A senior Israeli official said Friday that the IDF had sought to minimize civilian casualties by striking in the daytime, when many people wouldn't be home. He said Israel was not seeking a broader regional war but that Hezbollah's military capabilities had been meaningfully degraded by the recent series of Israeli military operations and that the objective of the strike was to leave Hezbollah with a significant leadership gap."
And don't forget the US is waiting in the wings should Israel come under attack [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 14:21]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 14:31 - Sep 28 with 1662 views | NthQldITFC |
An interesting analogy on Any Answers earlier:
"Imagine if the British government, during the troubles in Northern Ireland, had levelled Northern Ireland, and then was bombing Dublin to get at the IRA."
As he said, it's not a perfect analogy, but it makes you think. |  |
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 14:42 - Sep 28 with 1635 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 14:13 - Sep 28 by DJR |
I am not a military expert, but what I say seems to accord with the following.
This from CBS.
"A senior Israeli official said Friday that the IDF had sought to minimize civilian casualties by striking in the daytime, when many people wouldn't be home. He said Israel was not seeking a broader regional war but that Hezbollah's military capabilities had been meaningfully degraded by the recent series of Israeli military operations and that the objective of the strike was to leave Hezbollah with a significant leadership gap."
And don't forget the US is waiting in the wings should Israel come under attack [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 14:21]
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Yes , but Israel is always overly bullish about its successes. I think we need to await the thoughts of Western security Analysts.
“ While Nasrallah’s killing is unlikely to disrupt the operational continuity of the movement it is “obviously a massive, massive demoralization amongst its ranks and supporters and absolute terror which will temporarily paralyze ordinary people” within the movement, said Saad.
“That doesn’t mean the organization is paralyzed,” she added. “Hezbollah is an organization that was built to absorb these types of shocks… it’s built to be resilient and outlast individual leaders.”
Unless Hezbollah were more compromised than thought by Israel intelligence, they’ll still have plenty of heavy weapons. If not they have access to more fighters and weapons through their porous border with Syria. Personally, I think Iran will take a step back now as they’ve already seen their standing damaged. This might mean that Hezbollah have less enthusiasm in continuing their attacks. | | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 15:22 - Sep 28 with 1572 views | DJR |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 14:42 - Sep 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Yes , but Israel is always overly bullish about its successes. I think we need to await the thoughts of Western security Analysts.
“ While Nasrallah’s killing is unlikely to disrupt the operational continuity of the movement it is “obviously a massive, massive demoralization amongst its ranks and supporters and absolute terror which will temporarily paralyze ordinary people” within the movement, said Saad.
“That doesn’t mean the organization is paralyzed,” she added. “Hezbollah is an organization that was built to absorb these types of shocks… it’s built to be resilient and outlast individual leaders.”
Unless Hezbollah were more compromised than thought by Israel intelligence, they’ll still have plenty of heavy weapons. If not they have access to more fighters and weapons through their porous border with Syria. Personally, I think Iran will take a step back now as they’ve already seen their standing damaged. This might mean that Hezbollah have less enthusiasm in continuing their attacks. |
That's certainly true, but I suppose I am looking at things in terms of surveillance/communications. It seems to be the case that Israel's surveillance is so sophisticated that members of Hezbollah have had to be careful about movements and give up mobile phones, pagers and walkie-talkies. And without proper communications in place, especially when coupled with a depleted leadership, it seems to be that a fighting force is not as effective as it could be. But that's not to say that it couldn't cause chaos in an ad hoc way. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 17:04]
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| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 21:55 - Sep 28 with 1439 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 15:22 - Sep 28 by DJR |
That's certainly true, but I suppose I am looking at things in terms of surveillance/communications. It seems to be the case that Israel's surveillance is so sophisticated that members of Hezbollah have had to be careful about movements and give up mobile phones, pagers and walkie-talkies. And without proper communications in place, especially when coupled with a depleted leadership, it seems to be that a fighting force is not as effective as it could be. But that's not to say that it couldn't cause chaos in an ad hoc way. [Post edited 28 Sep 2024 17:04]
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https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/09/28/hassan-nasrallahs-de
Interesting piece about the death of Nasrallah:
“ For years Hizbullah has been a loyal servant of Iran. The group played a crucial role in propping up Bashar al-Assad’s bloody regime in Syria, and it provides training and guidance to other Iranian-backed militias in Iraq and Yemen. No surprise, then, that some Arabs reacted with glee to Mr Nasrallah’s death. In Idlib, a rebel-held pocket of Syria, people handed out sweets to celebrate: Syrians will remember Mr Nasrallah as a butcher whose men starved and killed them. ”
and potential ramifications for Hezbollah:
“ Mr Nasrallah spent years talking up the “axis of resistance”, a constellation of Iran-backed militias committed to fighting Israel and America. He said they were strong and united. Then Israel decapitated the most powerful militia in a matter of weeks, while Iran sat idle. Hizbullah is not about to disappear: it has thousands of armed partisans, an arsenal of long-range missiles and a base of popular support. But the militia that emerges from this war will be very different from the one that entered it. ” | | | |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 08:13 - Sep 29 with 1309 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The 1982 Israel invasion and The Birth of Hezbollah on 14:31 - Sep 28 by NthQldITFC |
An interesting analogy on Any Answers earlier:
"Imagine if the British government, during the troubles in Northern Ireland, had levelled Northern Ireland, and then was bombing Dublin to get at the IRA."
As he said, it's not a perfect analogy, but it makes you think. |
Not a perfect analogy? Makes you think? It’s one of the most pathetic, simplistic and ill informed analogies anyone could make.
Imagine you have just posted one of your interesting and thought provoking posts on the climate change emergency , and some half wit replied “yeah but what about the summer of 1976? Hottest on record”. That’s your IRA analogy right there.
Yes, like Humana’s and Hezbollah, the IRA was a terrorist organisation. And yes, they committed multiple atrocities that took innocent lives during their campaign of violence. But they had a clear motive for what they did. It was an attempt to bring the British government to the negotiating table in ordered to achieve a united Ireland.
The IRA didn’t want to wipe Britain of the face of the map. The IRA didn’t want to eradicate every British person from the face of the earth. The IRA did not, in a single day, launch an invasion of mainland a Britain, raping, mutilating and slaughtering over 1200 innocent British men, women and children. Whilst taking another 200 hostage. Scottish nationalist terrorists did not, in solidarity with the IRA then launch over 9000 missiles at the north of England, killing many of the people living there and forcing the residents of Carlisle, Newcastle and Sunderland to leave their homes making the north of England uninhabitable. Welsh nationalist terrorists did not then join the conflict and launch missiles into the west of England. France, for want of a better example, did not fund, train and supply weapons to these Irish, Welsh and Scottish nationalists because the stated aim of the a French government was the eradication of the British state.
If people are going to comment on the current situation then they should at least take the time and trouble to understand who and what Hamas and Hezbollah are. They certainly wouldn’t come up with an analogy that a sixth form politics student would be ashamed of.
I suggest you take 90 minutes of your time to get on BBC iPlayer and watch Surviving October 7th: We Will Dance Again. It shows only a small part of the pogrom of October 7th, the attack on the Nova music festival, where 400 of the 1200 victims were murdered.
Please watch that and then tell me that this is in any way a compassion with the troubles in Northern Ireland. [Post edited 29 Sep 2024 8:31]
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