| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. 10:04 - Nov 5 with 3971 views | Blue_In_Boston |
VAR is awful, yes agreed but can people familiarise themselves with what it can review before whinging about it?
It can't look at incidents involving second yellow cards, so Phillips and Clarke's sending off have nothing to do with VAR. Come on, keep up with the laws of the game... |  | | |  |
| No they wouldn't on 20:12 - Nov 5 with 560 views | Dyland |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 20:06 - Nov 5 by Plums |
They'd have to review all yellow cards as the first and second yellow carry equal weight. If you're reviewing all yellows then you'd have to be involved in all near yellows too. It's a recipe for more VAR rather than less. |
May create more fuss and whinging, mind :) |  |
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| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 21:43 - Nov 5 with 510 views | Olcol |
If VAR cannot stop errors (as is currently) then we have paid millions to be screwed over. What's the F'in point.
EPL is broken! | | | |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 23:27 - Nov 5 with 488 views | bluestandard |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 12:53 - Nov 5 by PioneerBlue |
I know few will read this but here are the IFAB rules verbatim.
We fell foul to rule 2, VAR didn’t feel there was sufficient reason for the Ref to review, and also rule 9 means KP would have still received the yellow based on the Refs decision not to have awarded the pen. Only the ref giving the first foul could have stopped all this, but then VAR may have decided that Chappers fell to the floor by himself and didn’t want the shot which may mean the decision would have been overturned, but at least in that situ KPs yellow wouldn’t have happened because the game would have stopped!
Principles
The use of VARs in football matches is based on a number of principles, all of which must apply in every match using VARs.
1. A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official, with independent access to match footage, who may assist the referee only in the event of a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ in relation to:
a. Goal/no goal
b. Penalty/no penalty
c. Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
d. Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team)
2. The referee must always make a decision, i.e. the referee is not permitted to give ‘no decision’ and then use the VAR to make the decision; a decision to allow play to continue after an alleged offence can be reviewed.
3. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a ‘clear and obvious error’.
4. Only the referee can initiate a ‘review’; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a ‘review’ to the referee.
5. The final decision is always taken by the referee, either based on information from the VAR or after the referee has undertaken an ‘on-field review’ (OFR).
6. There is no time limit for the review process as accuracy is more important than speed.
7. The players and team officials must not surround the referee or attempt to influence if a decision is reviewed, the review process or the final decision.
8. The referee must remain ‘visible’ during the review process to ensure transparency.
9. If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/sending-off for stopping or interfering with a promising attack or DOGSO).
10. If play has stopped and been restarted, the referee may not undertake a ‘review’ except for a case of mistaken identity or for a potential sending-off offence relating to violent conduct, spitting, biting or extremely offensive, insulting and/or abusive action(s).
11. The period of play before and after an incident that can be reviewed is determined by the Laws of the Game and VAR protocol.
12. As the VAR will automatically ‘check’ every situation/decision, there is no need for coaches or players to request a ‘review’. [Post edited 5 Nov 2024 14:42]
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I may be missing something but I don't think we fell foul of rule 2. As I read it, rule 2 is basically enshrining the position that the ref can't just 'sit on the fence'. In a game, that would look like the ref stopping the match and saying to VAR 'I'm not sure if this was a penalty, can you confirm either way?' The ref did however make a decision in the match which was 'play on, no penalty'.
We fell foul of rule 3, because VAR deemed that the original on field decision was not a 'clear and obvious error'. Here's what I don't get. A penalty is both a binary decision (its either a penalty, or its not a penalty), but there are also nuances between whether its a close decision or a 'stonewall' penalty. This is where I think the rule falls down as currently drafted. TV pundits eg Stephen Warnock are bemused because they are looking at it in binary terms ie. to them its an obvious penalty so therefore it has to be a clear and obvious error. The ref under the rules is having to do something slightly different and to borrow a legal phrase, they have to decide whether the 'man on the clapham omnibus' would have thought it was an 'obvious' penalty and therefore an obvious error.
This is where refs imo are tying themselves in knots. How on earth is a VAR official supposed to decide in real time where a penalty appeal sits in the spectrum? If we grade it out of 10, is a clear and obvious error where 8 out of 10 neutral observers would say it was a penalty? And if that is the threshold for example, how can the VAR system deliver that judgement. It might sound stupid, but you might get more consistency if each of the 4 match officials got to vote on the decision with a 3 out of 4 majority needed to overturn the on field decision. | | | |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 01:44 - Nov 6 with 462 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 18:00 - Nov 5 by Vaughan8 |
Of the list that was posted above:-
3. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a ‘clear and obvious error’.
This isn't applied though is it? They state this then a toenail is offside. I know they have extra technology for that, but there are certainly some decisions that aren't clear and obvious that get overturned.
7. The players and team officials must not surround the referee or attempt to influence if a decision is reviewed, the review process or the final decision.
Happens all the time?
9. If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/sending-off for stopping or interfering with a promising attack or DOGSO).
So if the penalty was reviewed on Saturday, the Phillips would have still got sent off? [Post edited 5 Nov 2024 18:01]
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On point 9 my understanding is that Phillips would still have been sent off even if the referee overturned the 'penalty' decision.
Seems harsh but the laws are the laws. | | | |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 01:47 - Nov 6 with 461 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 19:33 - Nov 5 by redrickstuhaart |
It is time they changed that. Its as game changing as a straight red. No logic in not reviewing it. |
It is, but how often do you see a ref give a yellow for totting up a number of fouls. What if the first yellow was debatable but the second one that leads to the red is clear cut? | | | |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 02:37 - Nov 6 with 448 views | Olcol |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 12:53 - Nov 5 by PioneerBlue |
I know few will read this but here are the IFAB rules verbatim.
We fell foul to rule 2, VAR didn’t feel there was sufficient reason for the Ref to review, and also rule 9 means KP would have still received the yellow based on the Refs decision not to have awarded the pen. Only the ref giving the first foul could have stopped all this, but then VAR may have decided that Chappers fell to the floor by himself and didn’t want the shot which may mean the decision would have been overturned, but at least in that situ KPs yellow wouldn’t have happened because the game would have stopped!
Principles
The use of VARs in football matches is based on a number of principles, all of which must apply in every match using VARs.
1. A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official, with independent access to match footage, who may assist the referee only in the event of a ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ in relation to:
a. Goal/no goal
b. Penalty/no penalty
c. Direct red card (not second yellow card/caution)
d. Mistaken identity (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team)
2. The referee must always make a decision, i.e. the referee is not permitted to give ‘no decision’ and then use the VAR to make the decision; a decision to allow play to continue after an alleged offence can be reviewed.
3. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a ‘clear and obvious error’.
4. Only the referee can initiate a ‘review’; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a ‘review’ to the referee.
5. The final decision is always taken by the referee, either based on information from the VAR or after the referee has undertaken an ‘on-field review’ (OFR).
6. There is no time limit for the review process as accuracy is more important than speed.
7. The players and team officials must not surround the referee or attempt to influence if a decision is reviewed, the review process or the final decision.
8. The referee must remain ‘visible’ during the review process to ensure transparency.
9. If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/sending-off for stopping or interfering with a promising attack or DOGSO).
10. If play has stopped and been restarted, the referee may not undertake a ‘review’ except for a case of mistaken identity or for a potential sending-off offence relating to violent conduct, spitting, biting or extremely offensive, insulting and/or abusive action(s).
11. The period of play before and after an incident that can be reviewed is determined by the Laws of the Game and VAR protocol.
12. As the VAR will automatically ‘check’ every situation/decision, there is no need for coaches or players to request a ‘review’. [Post edited 5 Nov 2024 14:42]
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Well what a load of shirt.
Those "rules" are so easily miss interpreted, no wonder that there are so many conflicting decisions made. It needs to be scrapped. Premier league will be a farce if it's not handed over to an independent organisation soon. | | | |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 11:46 - Nov 7 with 343 views | portmanroadblue |
| So many still don't understand what VAR can look at. on 11:50 - Nov 5 by Asa |
It's pretty well documented what it can look at.
- Arsenal
- Man City
- Spurs
- Man Utd
- Chelsea
- Liverpool
Sometimes Newcastle and Aston Villa, depending on the opposition. |
You missed Brentford, Leicester...........any club playing us :-( |  | | |
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