| summer signings hit or miss 10:01 - Dec 12 with 2123 views | nodge_blue |
I didn't sleep well last night and at one stage went through each of the summer signings to rate them, based on money paid, performances to date, have they been an improvement on who had the shirt and fitness (availability).
This is subjective oc and no fence sitting
Muric - Miss. Indifferent form and not a big enough improvement over VH.
Johnson - Miss. Hasn't made enough improvement in the right back area.
O'Shea - Hit. Good on the ball and reads the game well. Looks PL level.
Greaves - Hit. Just - given question now of whether better than Burgess and fee paid.
Phillips - Miss. Not doubting pedigree. But not enough impact. Not fit enough of the time.
Cajuste - Miss. Just. Decent player. Needs more sustained impact. Carrying injuries.
Ogbene - Miss. Harsh - but hardly played then got injured.
Delap - Hit. Nuff said. Badly needs resting. McKenna expects forwards to be spent after 60.
Clarke - Miss. Just haven't seen enough from him. Decent player no doubt but needs to show.
Szmodics - Hit. Grafts better than Broadhead and good finisher.
Hutchinson - Hit. Super talented but impact varies against PL defenders.
Think it speaks volumes that we rely on Morse, Chaplin last few games, and how good our recruitment was in L1 and the small fees we paid. Id say 6 miss ratings above is too high. All of them have the potential to come good but we are nearly half way through the season and we are getting into the too late territory.
We maybe never could have a successful window as we couldn't afford the combined fees for 10 proven PL players - but I cant help feeling we have invested in a lot of good Championship players who cant kick us on enough in a short time frame.
[Post edited 12 Dec 2024 10:02]
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| summer signings hit or miss on 10:12 - Dec 12 with 2040 views | HampBlue |
Think it's a little unfair to have such a binary measure on a few of these though!
Certainly don't think it's fair to put player of the month Cajuste as a miss. He's been brilliant when he plays, we knew he was carrying injuries when we signed him.
Would probably put Muric and Johnson in the middle (sorry, fence sitting) But Muric is better than VH for me, despite the clangers, he's kept us in a lot of games and brilliant on crosses.
Johnson much more effective in the RWB position as opposed the RB. If we're scoring him just on his time at RB miss, but the games he's played in the Burns position he has been really good.
Clarke for sure the biggest Miss right now, classic flair player. goes hot/cold but so far he's been freezing cold! |  | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:18 - Dec 12 with 1993 views | FrimleyBlue |
"All of them have the potential to come good but we are nearly half way through the season and we are getting into the too late territory."
The thing is, pretty much most of our signings were with a long term view over short term immediate impact bar Szmodics and Johnson really.
Oshea signed with a back issue
Phillips has his fitness issuess and possibly mental health side of things to sort ( Just being loved for example)
Cajuste came with knee issues
Clarke is being developed into an inverted forward it'll take time
Delap dare I say was signed to be our right sided player to develop
Hutchinson is on the development path of being a regular 10 player |  |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 10:20 - Dec 12 with 1979 views | nodge_blue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:12 - Dec 12 by HampBlue |
Think it's a little unfair to have such a binary measure on a few of these though!
Certainly don't think it's fair to put player of the month Cajuste as a miss. He's been brilliant when he plays, we knew he was carrying injuries when we signed him.
Would probably put Muric and Johnson in the middle (sorry, fence sitting) But Muric is better than VH for me, despite the clangers, he's kept us in a lot of games and brilliant on crosses.
Johnson much more effective in the RWB position as opposed the RB. If we're scoring him just on his time at RB miss, but the games he's played in the Burns position he has been really good.
Clarke for sure the biggest Miss right now, classic flair player. goes hot/cold but so far he's been freezing cold! |
Binary because buying or not buying a player is a binary decision and it reflects whether I think we made the right choice or not.
Cajuste was marginal - it's more the fitness Id highlight. Brentford passed him over for that reason.
VH kept us in games too though and I don't think had anywhere near the clanger level after 15 games. But the standard is oc different. Muric may be better but he's still a miss for me. Rather had Cooper from Plymouth.
Johnson I don't mind. He was a Bosman and I think as such is ok. He's had a couple of good games. I just think I expected a bit more from a PL players. But that's probably why he was on the fringes at WH. | |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 10:21 - Dec 12 with 1964 views | Horsham |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:18 - Dec 12 by FrimleyBlue |
"All of them have the potential to come good but we are nearly half way through the season and we are getting into the too late territory."
The thing is, pretty much most of our signings were with a long term view over short term immediate impact bar Szmodics and Johnson really.
Oshea signed with a back issue
Phillips has his fitness issuess and possibly mental health side of things to sort ( Just being loved for example)
Cajuste came with knee issues
Clarke is being developed into an inverted forward it'll take time
Delap dare I say was signed to be our right sided player to develop
Hutchinson is on the development path of being a regular 10 player |
Any evidence that Delap was signed to be our right sided player? |  | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:36 - Dec 12 with 1900 views | FrimleyBlue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:21 - Dec 12 by Horsham |
Any evidence that Delap was signed to be our right sided player? |
None other than we were trying to sign Broja, so we would have had Broja, Hirst and Delap competing for 1 place uptop and Delap had played wide right for Hull. And wide right is where we are quite short on for long term development [Post edited 12 Dec 2024 10:51]
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| summer signings hit or miss on 10:41 - Dec 12 with 1889 views | nodge_blue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:18 - Dec 12 by FrimleyBlue |
"All of them have the potential to come good but we are nearly half way through the season and we are getting into the too late territory."
The thing is, pretty much most of our signings were with a long term view over short term immediate impact bar Szmodics and Johnson really.
Oshea signed with a back issue
Phillips has his fitness issuess and possibly mental health side of things to sort ( Just being loved for example)
Cajuste came with knee issues
Clarke is being developed into an inverted forward it'll take time
Delap dare I say was signed to be our right sided player to develop
Hutchinson is on the development path of being a regular 10 player |
Im pretty sure that signings would have been made on the basis that they were going to do a job this season and keep us up.
I don't think anyone has been poor. They all have had their moments. Phillips could by the end of the season potentially be back to where he was. But we don't have as a club that long. And if we go down then he and Cajuste won't be here anyway. Morsy will be another year older. We could be very light in CM.
Even Clarke at times has looked comfortable on the ball and used his close control to get us up the pitch a bit. But we are looking for more than that aren't we.
And if I take my rose tinted specs off you could say £18 mil for Omari and 1 goal is hardly a cause for a hit mark. But Id still in my Time Machine back to July advise Ashton to sign him. | |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 10:44 - Dec 12 with 1876 views | Horsham |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:36 - Dec 12 by FrimleyBlue |
None other than we were trying to sign Broja, so we would have had Broja, Hirst and Delap competing for 1 place uptop and Delap had played wide right for Hull. And wide right is where we are quite short on for long term development [Post edited 12 Dec 2024 10:51]
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Fair enough. Must admit my take is that McKenna wanted 2 more 9’s to compete with Hirst.
The way things have played out we all wish another 9 had been signed… | | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:48 - Dec 12 with 1853 views | FrimleyBlue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:41 - Dec 12 by nodge_blue |
Im pretty sure that signings would have been made on the basis that they were going to do a job this season and keep us up.
I don't think anyone has been poor. They all have had their moments. Phillips could by the end of the season potentially be back to where he was. But we don't have as a club that long. And if we go down then he and Cajuste won't be here anyway. Morsy will be another year older. We could be very light in CM.
Even Clarke at times has looked comfortable on the ball and used his close control to get us up the pitch a bit. But we are looking for more than that aren't we.
And if I take my rose tinted specs off you could say £18 mil for Omari and 1 goal is hardly a cause for a hit mark. But Id still in my Time Machine back to July advise Ashton to sign him. |
"Im pretty sure that signings would have been made on the basis that they were going to do a job this season and keep us up"
You'd have thought so, but the signings don't really match that do they?
Signing players with injuries, or young ones to develop, doesn't really shout out that we're signing players with a short term view/. Hutch for example we know his quality, but you also saw him developing at champ level, let alone prem.
I dunno, It could however be part of a plan to bring in experienced players on loan alone in Jan, so that you've got young that have got used to the prem, to go with players who know the prem, then business end of season you've got a mix who can fight to stay up.
I dunno, as a window itself and what we've learned about the players since signing, it doesnt scream short term quality. | |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 10:59 - Dec 12 with 1787 views | gsoly |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:21 - Dec 12 by Horsham |
Any evidence that Delap was signed to be our right sided player? |
There is literally none. |  | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 11:05 - Dec 12 with 1738 views | davblue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:48 - Dec 12 by FrimleyBlue |
"Im pretty sure that signings would have been made on the basis that they were going to do a job this season and keep us up"
You'd have thought so, but the signings don't really match that do they?
Signing players with injuries, or young ones to develop, doesn't really shout out that we're signing players with a short term view/. Hutch for example we know his quality, but you also saw him developing at champ level, let alone prem.
I dunno, It could however be part of a plan to bring in experienced players on loan alone in Jan, so that you've got young that have got used to the prem, to go with players who know the prem, then business end of season you've got a mix who can fight to stay up.
I dunno, as a window itself and what we've learned about the players since signing, it doesnt scream short term quality. |
We can't afford experienced good premier league players so looking to the future was the right thing to do imo. |  | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 11:06 - Dec 12 with 1727 views | nodge_blue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:59 - Dec 12 by gsoly |
There is literally none. |
Didn't Joe think initially that he was going to be on the right and someone like the Greek guy through the middle?
But then Joe also has said you don't pay £16 mil for a defender to not pick them.....seems like you do Joe......sorry mate - not digging you out. | |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 11:13 - Dec 12 with 1689 views | FrimleyBlue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 11:05 - Dec 12 by davblue |
We can't afford experienced good premier league players so looking to the future was the right thing to do imo. |
Yeah I get that, But you dont think we could have stretched it out to 2/3 more signings or used up our 2 domestic loans on experience, IF the thought wasn't more about the future rather than the now, I mean that's what it looks like for me at least, we're just a few quality additions away from having enough to win some of these battles.
But as I say, that could be the Jan plan anyway and always was? Easier to loan/sign experienced ones in jan who've maybe been bombed out, like chillwell as an example | |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 11:14 - Dec 12 with 1674 views | FrimleyBlue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 10:59 - Dec 12 by gsoly |
There is literally none. |
I did say none, but for me it looked a bit obvious considering the signings we made and the only wide right option we signed was 27 Ogbene who's more of a pacey need space winger, compared to a battering ram in Delap. | |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 11:53 - Dec 12 with 1565 views | davblue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 11:13 - Dec 12 by FrimleyBlue |
Yeah I get that, But you dont think we could have stretched it out to 2/3 more signings or used up our 2 domestic loans on experience, IF the thought wasn't more about the future rather than the now, I mean that's what it looks like for me at least, we're just a few quality additions away from having enough to win some of these battles.
But as I say, that could be the Jan plan anyway and always was? Easier to loan/sign experienced ones in jan who've maybe been bombed out, like chillwell as an example |
Think we’ve seen the difficulties with getting 12 players embedded, 15 would have posed more challenges.
Difficult one if we blew all of our money and had nothing available for January then people would have been bemoaning the ambition of the club. Pros and cons to every approach, go all out in the summer, or hold some back. What if injuries hit us? | | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 12:26 - Dec 12 with 1437 views | ibbleobble |
Cajuste and Phillips are hits. Other than that agree. | | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 14:26 - Dec 12 with 1263 views | bsw72 |
A few things to consider - when players are purchased, they are purchased to fit into a system/team, however (as I keep harping on about) the loss of players will hve an impact on how the other parts work.
The loss of Ogbene has had a huge impact down the right, which will have influenced how well players like Johnson have settled in, which has a knock on effect to how well the defensive unit works.
I do wonder that if Ogbene had been fit to play in the Leicester and Bournemouth games, we would have had better cover on the right, so the first conceded goals in those games may not have happened. |  | | |
| summer signings hit or miss on 15:55 - Dec 12 with 1169 views | hoppy |
What about Conor Townsend?
He's not going to be chosen ahead of Davis, clearly, but if called upon, what are we likely to expect from him? |  |
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| summer signings hit or miss on 15:57 - Dec 12 with 1153 views | FrimleyBlue |
| summer signings hit or miss on 15:55 - Dec 12 by hoppy |
What about Conor Townsend?
He's not going to be chosen ahead of Davis, clearly, but if called upon, what are we likely to expect from him? |
Considering the amount of running Davis does. You'd have to imagine KM isn't that keen on using townsend if he can help it. | |
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