| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now 16:12 - Mar 2 with 2780 views | Mullet |
I can’t keep up with these grifters and their egos. |  |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:42 - Mar 2 with 2556 views | Swansea_Blue |
“Sadly GBN now actively suppresses free speech” = ‘we’re now becoming too bigoted/racist/homophobic/abusive* for GB News’.
*Delete as appropriate.
The decline of the parts of publicly prominent right into outright fascism, racism and even Nazi iconography in such a short space of time is frightening. The stuff from Braverman last week, for example, about not being able to be British until you’re the 5th or 6th generation. It’s Aryan Race Theory levels of batsh*tery. |  |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:55 - Mar 2 with 2480 views | DJR |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:42 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
“Sadly GBN now actively suppresses free speech” = ‘we’re now becoming too bigoted/racist/homophobic/abusive* for GB News’.
*Delete as appropriate.
The decline of the parts of publicly prominent right into outright fascism, racism and even Nazi iconography in such a short space of time is frightening. The stuff from Braverman last week, for example, about not being able to be British until you’re the 5th or 6th generation. It’s Aryan Race Theory levels of batsh*tery. |
I didn't see her comments at the time but Braverman's take happens to coincide with mine.
I was born abroad to Scottish parents but have lived in England for 64 of my 65 years.
Despite that, I would not regard myself as English, preferring British or Scottish when asked to state my identity.
At the end of the day, I think it is up to the individual how they feel about their own identity.. [Post edited 2 Mar 18:01]
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:59 - Mar 2 with 2445 views | positivity |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:42 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
“Sadly GBN now actively suppresses free speech” = ‘we’re now becoming too bigoted/racist/homophobic/abusive* for GB News’.
*Delete as appropriate.
The decline of the parts of publicly prominent right into outright fascism, racism and even Nazi iconography in such a short space of time is frightening. The stuff from Braverman last week, for example, about not being able to be British until you’re the 5th or 6th generation. It’s Aryan Race Theory levels of batsh*tery. |
does braverman not identify as british anymore? interesting move |  |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:03 - Mar 2 with 2404 views | DJR |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:59 - Mar 2 by positivity |
does braverman not identify as british anymore? interesting move |
As with many non-white people in this country, she prefers to describe herself as British not English. | | | |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:05 - Mar 2 with 2369 views | positivity |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:55 - Mar 2 by DJR |
I didn't see her comments at the time but Braverman's take happens to coincide with mine.
I was born abroad to Scottish parents but have lived in England for 64 of my 65 years.
Despite that, I would not regard myself as English, preferring British or Scottish when asked to state my identity.
At the end of the day, I think it is up to the individual how they feel about their own identity.. [Post edited 2 Mar 18:01]
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not sure that braverman would agree with self-identification! | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:15 - Mar 2 with 2296 views | positivity |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:03 - Mar 2 by DJR |
As with many non-white people in this country, she prefers to describe herself as British not English. |
but she's not 5th or 6th generation? | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:24 - Mar 2 with 2242 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:59 - Mar 2 by positivity |
does braverman not identify as british anymore? interesting move |
They get very confused. There seems to be a movement at the moment on the right to claim that being English should be for the whites, while anyone with coloured skin can be British instead. It blew up last week off the back of Braverman’s ridiculous statements about nationality.
That self-promoting head teacher sums it up best (sorry for the twitter link - but I think it’s important to see it from the horse’s mouth in this case).
“‘British’ is a term that allows us to keep ‘English’ for the white English.”
I’m not sure whether it’s driven solely by racism or also by a complete misunderstanding of how national identity works in the UK.
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:31 - Mar 2 with 2182 views | Mullet |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:55 - Mar 2 by DJR |
I didn't see her comments at the time but Braverman's take happens to coincide with mine.
I was born abroad to Scottish parents but have lived in England for 64 of my 65 years.
Despite that, I would not regard myself as English, preferring British or Scottish when asked to state my identity.
At the end of the day, I think it is up to the individual how they feel about their own identity.. [Post edited 2 Mar 18:01]
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All right Braveheart! Keep it light eh? | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:39 - Mar 2 with 2114 views | DJR |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:31 - Mar 2 by Mullet |
All right Braveheart! Keep it light eh? |
I'm perfectly balanced. I've got a chip on both shoulders. | | | |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:43 - Mar 2 with 2050 views | positivity |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:24 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
They get very confused. There seems to be a movement at the moment on the right to claim that being English should be for the whites, while anyone with coloured skin can be British instead. It blew up last week off the back of Braverman’s ridiculous statements about nationality.
That self-promoting head teacher sums it up best (sorry for the twitter link - but I think it’s important to see it from the horse’s mouth in this case).
“‘British’ is a term that allows us to keep ‘English’ for the white English.”
I’m not sure whether it’s driven solely by racism or also by a complete misunderstanding of how national identity works in the UK.
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such weird people, tying themselves up in knots over identity!
on a more serious note, don't like our chances of qualifying for the world cup if this goes through... | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:54 - Mar 2 with 1991 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:13 - Mar 2 by DJR |
If she's putting that forward as a hard and fast rule, as opposed to how she feels, then that's a complete nonsense (and rather scary).
It also seems to be at variance with her hostility to multiculturism, because it's putting a barrier to assimilation if people aren't able to call themselves English if that is what they want.
I sense she hasn't really thought this through. [Post edited 2 Mar 18:16]
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Her words would be helpful here, wouldn’t they.
She wrote: ““How many generations must pass before one can claim to be English? Five? Six? It is a question without an easy answer,”.
Itpaywalled in the Telegraph, but there are extracts from it here https://uk.news.yahoo.com/suella-braverman-bewilders-people-claiming-095933312.h
It sounds like racial rant disguised as an awful faux intellectual piece. I would agree with you that people with options are free to choose, so in her case she can be whatever she wants; English, British, English-Asian, British-Asian, it doesn’t matter.
I strongly disagree with her suggestion that she couldn’t “claim” her nationality unless underpinned by 5 or 6 generations of English ancestry (and that’s fraught with complications too - what if each of those generations clung to their roots?). That was the approach of the Nazis. Although they only needed 3 or 4 generations (back to 1800 in their case, which coincidentally is where 5 or 6 generations would take you now). Given her hostile views on some cultures living in the UK and immigrants in general, that may not be such a coincidence…
As [Post edited 2 Mar 18:59]
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 19:00 - Mar 2 with 1950 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:39 - Mar 2 by DJR |
I'm perfectly balanced. I've got a chip on both shoulders. |
Each soaked in Buckfast Tonic and then battered and re-fried! | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 20:09 - Mar 2 with 1748 views | syntaxerror |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:05 - Mar 2 by positivity |
not sure that braverman would agree with self-identification! |
I self identify as human (most of the time).
I really can’t understand why people put nationality above humanity. |  | | |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 20:35 - Mar 2 with 1694 views | Guthrum |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:24 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
They get very confused. There seems to be a movement at the moment on the right to claim that being English should be for the whites, while anyone with coloured skin can be British instead. It blew up last week off the back of Braverman’s ridiculous statements about nationality.
That self-promoting head teacher sums it up best (sorry for the twitter link - but I think it’s important to see it from the horse’s mouth in this case).
“‘British’ is a term that allows us to keep ‘English’ for the white English.”
I’m not sure whether it’s driven solely by racism or also by a complete misunderstanding of how national identity works in the UK.
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Technically, English is only for Suffolk, Norfolk, about half the Midlands, Parts of Lancashire, the Yorkshires and Geordies/Mackems/Monkey-Hangers/etc. (plus some border Scots). The rest are all Saxons or other stuff. |  |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 20:47 - Mar 2 with 1645 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 20:35 - Mar 2 by Guthrum |
Technically, English is only for Suffolk, Norfolk, about half the Midlands, Parts of Lancashire, the Yorkshires and Geordies/Mackems/Monkey-Hangers/etc. (plus some border Scots). The rest are all Saxons or other stuff. |
Positivity seems to have the right of it. “such weird people, tying themselves up in knots over identity”.
If it was coming from a place of curiosity and historical exploration it’d be different. But I can’t see any curiosity or attempt to learn from history at all. It just seems to be an attempt to make a defence for xenophobia and racism. But what do I know.
I’d like to take one of these ancestry DNA tests one of these days just to see if it would throw up a surprise (probably wouldn’t). | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 21:00 - Mar 2 with 1589 views | DJR |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:54 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Her words would be helpful here, wouldn’t they.
She wrote: ““How many generations must pass before one can claim to be English? Five? Six? It is a question without an easy answer,”.
Itpaywalled in the Telegraph, but there are extracts from it here https://uk.news.yahoo.com/suella-braverman-bewilders-people-claiming-095933312.h
It sounds like racial rant disguised as an awful faux intellectual piece. I would agree with you that people with options are free to choose, so in her case she can be whatever she wants; English, British, English-Asian, British-Asian, it doesn’t matter.
I strongly disagree with her suggestion that she couldn’t “claim” her nationality unless underpinned by 5 or 6 generations of English ancestry (and that’s fraught with complications too - what if each of those generations clung to their roots?). That was the approach of the Nazis. Although they only needed 3 or 4 generations (back to 1800 in their case, which coincidentally is where 5 or 6 generations would take you now). Given her hostile views on some cultures living in the UK and immigrants in general, that may not be such a coincidence…
As [Post edited 2 Mar 18:59]
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Thanks for that.
It's clearly racist, intellectually incoherent nonsense.
It is also clickbait for those who read the Telegraph or to persuade people to sign up to a digital subscription. No doubt Braverman was handsomely paid for her efforts.
The main problem is that it panders to a view that I imagine many Telegraph readers have, and it leads to the conclusion that even someone with Christian heritage such as Braverman can never be properly English.
Quite why she would want to put herself forward for deportation should it ever come to it, I don't know, but it is rather disturbing to effectively deny her own children and their descendants the right to call themselves English.
As the Clash sang (ironically).
"It would be wine and roses if England were for Englishmen again." [Post edited 2 Mar 21:12]
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 22:01 - Mar 2 with 1463 views | ElderGrizzly |
They simply sacked Grimes, because he isn’t popular and they need to cut costs.
Back to his Mum’s bedroom… |  | | |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 23:30 - Mar 2 with 1325 views | Guthrum |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 20:47 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Positivity seems to have the right of it. “such weird people, tying themselves up in knots over identity”.
If it was coming from a place of curiosity and historical exploration it’d be different. But I can’t see any curiosity or attempt to learn from history at all. It just seems to be an attempt to make a defence for xenophobia and racism. But what do I know.
I’d like to take one of these ancestry DNA tests one of these days just to see if it would throw up a surprise (probably wouldn’t). |
Problem with the Ancestry DNA tests (the broad-brush, "where did my bloodlines originate" ones) is that the genetic distinction between Angles, Saxons, Danes, Normans and Celts are quite blurred. A lot of them came from the same areas and were not so monolithic and homogenous groups as often portrayed. Also, ethnicities crossed modern boundaries. For example, there is essentially no difference at all between a lowland Scot and a northern Englisman, they were all originally Angles plus a bit of Viking and Norman.
It's only when you get significantly different haplogroups cropping up, such as African or Mediterranean, that origins can be firmly tied down.
I'm more interested in the DNA tests which can tie you to other specific lineages, i.e. distant cousins, which at least allows you to add other family trees to your own and perhaps bypass gaps in the information. Assuming, that is, one doesn't turn out to be related to a load of mass murderers. | |
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| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 05:25 - Mar 3 with 1147 views | jontysnut |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 17:42 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
“Sadly GBN now actively suppresses free speech” = ‘we’re now becoming too bigoted/racist/homophobic/abusive* for GB News’.
*Delete as appropriate.
The decline of the parts of publicly prominent right into outright fascism, racism and even Nazi iconography in such a short space of time is frightening. The stuff from Braverman last week, for example, about not being able to be British until you’re the 5th or 6th generation. It’s Aryan Race Theory levels of batsh*tery. |
Makes Norman Tebbit's cricket test look like liberal woke nonsense |  | | |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 08:57 - Mar 3 with 924 views | DJR |
| Apparently GBNews is part of the establishment now on 18:24 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
They get very confused. There seems to be a movement at the moment on the right to claim that being English should be for the whites, while anyone with coloured skin can be British instead. It blew up last week off the back of Braverman’s ridiculous statements about nationality.
That self-promoting head teacher sums it up best (sorry for the twitter link - but I think it’s important to see it from the horse’s mouth in this case).
“‘British’ is a term that allows us to keep ‘English’ for the white English.”
I’m not sure whether it’s driven solely by racism or also by a complete misunderstanding of how national identity works in the UK.
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It seems to me that the UK is rather unique in the world by being composed of four separate "countries" each with their own history and identity. This in turn leads to different possibilities and individual ideas of "national" identity.
The same is not true, say, of the US, where people born there are American, although some may also want to call themselves, say, Irish American.
Having said that, what Birbalsingh is saying appears to me to be racist claptrap that people like Tommy Robinson would endorse, and it is very bizarre to see non-white people trying to argue to this point, especially as people on the right like her no doubt maintain that multiculturism has failed. Indeed, if someone non-white and their descendants can't be English, how can they integrate?
It's also interesting to see this debate take place in the context of Englishness. Would she say the same about, say, Scottishness and claim Humza Yousaf is not Scottish, something he is proud to describe himself as?
At the end of the day, none of this has been thought through, and she effectively points out the absurdity of what she says in the last paragraph of her tweet. [Post edited 3 Mar 9:30]
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