| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees 21:00 - Mar 18 with 3873 views | Churchman |
From the Kremlin
The Kremlin statement reads that a key stipulation for "preventing the escalation of the conflict and working toward its resolution" should be "the complete cessation of foreign military aid and sharing intelligence with Kyiv".
All part of the process of surrender and subjugation that is under way. Ukraine is lost. Putin has gained everything and more besides. He’s also trampled all over Trump. That was assured from the moment Trump changed sides and agreed to the Dictators demands up front. From the BBC:
‘Vladimir Putin’s phone call with Donald Trump is a "power play" from the Russian president, who’s "not in a hurry" and “is in charge of this situation”, according to former Trump Russia adviser Fiona Hill. Speaking to the BBC’s Ukrainecast podcast, Hill, who served on the National Security Council as an advisor on Russia under President Trump, said: "the US has offered him a great deal, actually, already it seems. And he's in no mood to make any major concessions."
Pressed on whether an energy and infrastructure ceasefire was a concession, Hill said: "this is a kind of concession that Putin always makes... Putin's idea of a negotiation is to start a fight with you, beat the crap out of you and then say, he's going to stop beating you."
Politicians will run around now and try and dress this up as a victory for peace. Not if you are Ukrainian. All that bravery to defend their country from an invader for nothing. Betrayed. I feel so sorry for the people. |  | | |  |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:37 - Mar 19 with 1157 views | OldFart71 |
Doesn't this idea that the only Countries protected are those in NATO. Has nothing been learnt from WW2. Obviously not because if it had been Countries would have come together immediately Putin moved thousands of troops and machinery onto the borders of the Ukraine saying it was an exercise, now they are sh*tting themselves and running around like headless chickens trying to rearm themselves because they fear Putin won't stop at the Ukraine. |  | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:40 - Mar 19 with 1130 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:37 - Mar 19 by OldFart71 |
Doesn't this idea that the only Countries protected are those in NATO. Has nothing been learnt from WW2. Obviously not because if it had been Countries would have come together immediately Putin moved thousands of troops and machinery onto the borders of the Ukraine saying it was an exercise, now they are sh*tting themselves and running around like headless chickens trying to rearm themselves because they fear Putin won't stop at the Ukraine. |
The time to have taken action was 11 years ago when Crimea was annexed. |  |
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:42 - Mar 19 with 1127 views | Guthrum |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 21:46 - Mar 18 by Kropotkin123 |
I basically finished a response to this and acidentally deleted it.
I would argue that the cessatation of attacks on energy an instrastucture in isolation is not a concession:
• From listening to the daily summary of attacks on Ukraine I believe (but don't have data) that Russia did a bit of a weapons dump on Ukraine in preparation to this.
• It is likely they focused on Kursk and infraestructure in the build up so they didn't have to talk about swapping territory and they didn't have to have the cessation of infraestructure attacks impact their short-term strategic objectives.
• Around this time of year (end of winter) the attacks from Russia on energy and infraestructure have lessoned due to their lower impact (less energy being used at this time of year).
• Ukraine over roughly the last two months have been more successful in stopping attacks coming through, notably less deaths and successful Russian strikes (bar when US stopped intelligence sharing).
• Russia has also fired more and more decoy drones. Analysts suggest this is a sign of supplychain/production problems due to Ukraine's own infraestructure strikes.
The timing of this could well be more of an advatage to Russian than Ukraine. It would just allow Russia to resupply where it is struggling, stop further attacks where it is demonstrating vulnerability, and allow it to press on with fewer distrations to where it is have success (clearing dug in positions by dropping chemical weapons in trenches via drones and flushing defenders out). |
On the other hand, Ukraine accepting this keeps the Americans onside, while the Russians will be under pressure to develop things further.
It also allows Kyiv to conserve/restock precious surface-to-air missiles, or to use them on the front line (e.g. against aircraft launching glide bombs). |  |
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:47 - Mar 19 with 1116 views | DJR |
Whatever happens Trump will dress it up as a triumph, probably accompanied by a minerals' deal with Russia.
Jeremy Bowen said that in his first term North Korea and Afghanistan were failures but not in Trumpland. |  | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 11:22 - Mar 19 with 1025 views | Churchman |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 08:34 - Mar 19 by WeWereZombies |
If you think Finland will just roll over I suggest you revisit your World War Two history books. And this time with the United Kingdom and Finland as allies we would be even stronger. |
No. I know about the Winter War and the bollx up Russia made of it. Finland still sued for peace and Russia has been nibbling away at it forever. They have always wanted that territory.
Went to Finland in January. Nice people. I like Finland. Flippin harsh climate though. Hope Santa has central heating!
Tough mob though the Finns obviously are, they will need external support if Russia wants what it considers theirs - hence them joining NATO. It’ll be interesting to see if part of Trumps deal will be to revoke that as Putin clearly wishes. | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 11:45 - Mar 19 with 981 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 11:22 - Mar 19 by Churchman |
No. I know about the Winter War and the bollx up Russia made of it. Finland still sued for peace and Russia has been nibbling away at it forever. They have always wanted that territory.
Went to Finland in January. Nice people. I like Finland. Flippin harsh climate though. Hope Santa has central heating!
Tough mob though the Finns obviously are, they will need external support if Russia wants what it considers theirs - hence them joining NATO. It’ll be interesting to see if part of Trumps deal will be to revoke that as Putin clearly wishes. |
Don’t think there is any provision to kick someone out of NATO. Trump is unlikely to get his own way if he tries to do it.
He might try , fail then walk away in a hissy fit. Trumps legacy could turn out to be a more united Europe. | |
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 12:32 - Mar 19 with 927 views | Churchman |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 11:45 - Mar 19 by Pinewoodblue |
Don’t think there is any provision to kick someone out of NATO. Trump is unlikely to get his own way if he tries to do it.
He might try , fail then walk away in a hissy fit. Trumps legacy could turn out to be a more united Europe. |
I hope that a more United and robust Europe is the outcome. Nato in its current form is finished and a new, US free version will be required.
The countries under threat are trying to do something about it and I hope behind the scenes where the real work is always done Germany, France and U.K. possibly Italy drive this. | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 13:26 - Mar 19 with 880 views | J2BLUE |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 12:32 - Mar 19 by Churchman |
I hope that a more United and robust Europe is the outcome. Nato in its current form is finished and a new, US free version will be required.
The countries under threat are trying to do something about it and I hope behind the scenes where the real work is always done Germany, France and U.K. possibly Italy drive this. |
Poland deserve a seat at the top table on European defence. |  |
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 14:04 - Mar 19 with 849 views | Churchman |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 13:26 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
Poland deserve a seat at the top table on European defence. |
They do! Apols Poland, you should always be included!
Never been. My buddy who is employed by a German company works with a few and reckons they’re great people.
Their national dish is something called Bigos. According to Wiki it is ‘chopped meat of various kinds stewed with sauerkraut, shredded fresh cabbage and spices. It is served hot and can be enriched with additional vegetables and wine’.
Sounds nice - my mate said the version he had was terrible, but maybe they didn’t like him! | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 14:13 - Mar 19 with 846 views | mellowblue |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 21:19 - Mar 18 by bluejacko |
Why do you think pootin wants all aid stopped? He is losing men and material hand over fist for what?minor gains in the last three years as soon as Ukraine got themselves sorted out!
Oil refineries , factories and airfields being attacked! Yeah he holds all the cards🙄 |
Sure the Ukrainains will give Putin the odd black eye, attacks on refenieries etc Kursk incursion (waste of men and materials) all good for morale, plucky Ukraine and so on. But it isn't going to swing the tide of war. Of course P wants foreign war aid to be discontinued, it is a good demand to make, it won't be successful anyway.It's just part of the negotiating playbook. An impoverished Ukraine, arms wise would offer up less resistance if there is a next time. It is accepted in warfare that the aggressive side will always suffer higher loss 2-3 to one or thereabouts. the attacking side is exposed while the defenders are comparatively snug in their foxholes. Who would sign up to be a squaddie these days, drone-warfare is a nightmare. | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 14:55 - Mar 19 with 819 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:42 - Mar 19 by Guthrum |
On the other hand, Ukraine accepting this keeps the Americans onside, while the Russians will be under pressure to develop things further.
It also allows Kyiv to conserve/restock precious surface-to-air missiles, or to use them on the front line (e.g. against aircraft launching glide bombs). |
I don't accept that second paragraphs line of thinking. The same weapons will be used by Russia in a more concentrated fashion if it holds, and the surface to air missiles will be used then in the same quantity.
Regarding the first paragraph, I'm not suggesting nor sure whether Ukraine should accept or reject. My point was just that it is an advantage being dressed up as a concession.
Turns out they made a similar point on Ukraine the Latest yesterday about 4 minutes in. They made it more succinctly - Putin believes he has the advantage, doesn't want to come to the negotiating table, so would only ever suggest this if they are making the judgement that it will be a net benefit for them. [Post edited 19 Mar 14:56]
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 15:19 - Mar 19 with 804 views | Churchman |
Meanwhile, Trumps approval rating is at its highest mark as President according to this report.
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/trumps-approval-rating-reaches-highest-mark-a
Edit:And from CBS ‘The White House also said Mr. Trump and Putin agreed that an improved relationship between the U.S. and Russia "has a huge upside," including "enormous economic deals and geopolitical stability when peace has been achieved."
Note that enormous economic deals is mentioned first. This is what it’s all about. So a few war criminals in a Ukrainian hospital die and children of war criminals are carted off. Who cares? Not Trump or Putin. It’s all about the deal.
As for geopolitical stability I was obviously mistaken in thinking Putin flushed that down the pan when he invaded a sovereign country? Clearly that was dictator Zelenski. Silly me.
The BBC has it right I’m real rights, deals before right and wrong. Ukraine, Europe? Who cares. Fodder - the Russia-America partnership/close alliance is on!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjevg23enggo
[Post edited 19 Mar 15:37]
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 16:45 - Mar 19 with 741 views | bluejacko |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 14:13 - Mar 19 by mellowblue |
Sure the Ukrainains will give Putin the odd black eye, attacks on refenieries etc Kursk incursion (waste of men and materials) all good for morale, plucky Ukraine and so on. But it isn't going to swing the tide of war. Of course P wants foreign war aid to be discontinued, it is a good demand to make, it won't be successful anyway.It's just part of the negotiating playbook. An impoverished Ukraine, arms wise would offer up less resistance if there is a next time. It is accepted in warfare that the aggressive side will always suffer higher loss 2-3 to one or thereabouts. the attacking side is exposed while the defenders are comparatively snug in their foxholes. Who would sign up to be a squaddie these days, drone-warfare is a nightmare. |
I really think you should stop watching RT and get out and about on the interweb there are plenty of podcasts about what’s going on in Ukraine and believe it or not they are not all biased towards Ukraine just telling it as it is! | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 18:05 - Mar 19 with 715 views | BlueBoots |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 15:19 - Mar 19 by Churchman |
Meanwhile, Trumps approval rating is at its highest mark as President according to this report.
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/trumps-approval-rating-reaches-highest-mark-a
Edit:And from CBS ‘The White House also said Mr. Trump and Putin agreed that an improved relationship between the U.S. and Russia "has a huge upside," including "enormous economic deals and geopolitical stability when peace has been achieved."
Note that enormous economic deals is mentioned first. This is what it’s all about. So a few war criminals in a Ukrainian hospital die and children of war criminals are carted off. Who cares? Not Trump or Putin. It’s all about the deal.
As for geopolitical stability I was obviously mistaken in thinking Putin flushed that down the pan when he invaded a sovereign country? Clearly that was dictator Zelenski. Silly me.
The BBC has it right I’m real rights, deals before right and wrong. Ukraine, Europe? Who cares. Fodder - the Russia-America partnership/close alliance is on!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjevg23enggo
[Post edited 19 Mar 15:37]
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From the BBC article: "Vladimir Putin recently raised the prospect of US-Russian cooperation in aluminium production and rare minerals mining.
The message appears to be getting through.
"We'd like to have more trade with Russia," said Donald Trump on Tuesday in his interview with Fox News.
"They have some very valuable things for us, including rare earth. They have a big chunk of real estate, the biggest in the world. They have things that we could use.""
Mentioned on a thread around the time of Zelensky's visit to the US (when there was the prospect of a Ukraine-US minerals deal), that it would come to this. A fair proportion of Ukraine's aluminium, graphite and other minerals are in Russian occupied territory; the US will back Russia to keep control of this region in exchange for getting their hands on a share - these minerals were always the driver of US involvement, it's never been about trying to negotiate peace. |  |
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 19:17 - Mar 19 with 688 views | mellowblue |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 16:45 - Mar 19 by bluejacko |
I really think you should stop watching RT and get out and about on the interweb there are plenty of podcasts about what’s going on in Ukraine and believe it or not they are not all biased towards Ukraine just telling it as it is! |
mate, I'm well informed, no prob. As much as I dislike the Russians, they are a war machine. As in WWII once they are geared up for war, they are hard to beat. Ukraine are struggling, valiantly, but they are struggling, their best outcome is a stalemate which we are not at yet. | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 20:43 - Mar 19 with 660 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 19:17 - Mar 19 by mellowblue |
mate, I'm well informed, no prob. As much as I dislike the Russians, they are a war machine. As in WWII once they are geared up for war, they are hard to beat. Ukraine are struggling, valiantly, but they are struggling, their best outcome is a stalemate which we are not at yet. |
Russia are struggling - their economy, their losses, their progress. Which is why the US shift at this point is so devasting.
Many analysts suggest Ukraine could have won the won after taking back Kherson and Kharkiv, had the US and Europe given them what they needed, when they needed it, without giving the Russians a heads up. However they argued that we were too fearful of a total Russian collapse and the ramerfications of that.
People, such as myself, Churchman, and others have advocated for Ukrainian needs on here throughout the conflict, and it has always come way too late and too publically. Take the all the changes now. It was on the cards that Trump would come in and do this. It shouldn't be a shock. Yet Europe was head in the sand up until and after the US election. It still isn't there conceptually.
I remember Churchman asking people how much defense spending was needed months back. I don't think I replied, but the thinking from ordinary people was way off what we needed. We've been conditioned over time... good times... to not value defense.
2.5% defense spending is not enough to protect ourselves and Europe. Right now we are waiting for an almost inevitable unpaletable Russian/US agreement and at that point there will be more threats of pulling the $350bn in frozen Russian assets. But it will be too late so make a serious impact.
For all that Macron and France says, it has spent about 4 times more on Russian energy in this conflict than it has given the Ukraine. Even in 2024, the US spent more on Russian oil than on Ukraine - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-tha The Russian war machine is difficult to stop when you directly fund it. | |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 22:48 - Mar 19 with 591 views | Churchman |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 20:43 - Mar 19 by Kropotkin123 |
Russia are struggling - their economy, their losses, their progress. Which is why the US shift at this point is so devasting.
Many analysts suggest Ukraine could have won the won after taking back Kherson and Kharkiv, had the US and Europe given them what they needed, when they needed it, without giving the Russians a heads up. However they argued that we were too fearful of a total Russian collapse and the ramerfications of that.
People, such as myself, Churchman, and others have advocated for Ukrainian needs on here throughout the conflict, and it has always come way too late and too publically. Take the all the changes now. It was on the cards that Trump would come in and do this. It shouldn't be a shock. Yet Europe was head in the sand up until and after the US election. It still isn't there conceptually.
I remember Churchman asking people how much defense spending was needed months back. I don't think I replied, but the thinking from ordinary people was way off what we needed. We've been conditioned over time... good times... to not value defense.
2.5% defense spending is not enough to protect ourselves and Europe. Right now we are waiting for an almost inevitable unpaletable Russian/US agreement and at that point there will be more threats of pulling the $350bn in frozen Russian assets. But it will be too late so make a serious impact.
For all that Macron and France says, it has spent about 4 times more on Russian energy in this conflict than it has given the Ukraine. Even in 2024, the US spent more on Russian oil than on Ukraine - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-tha The Russian war machine is difficult to stop when you directly fund it. |
I think Western Europe has been in complete denial ever since Putin decided on rebuilding the Russian Empire before 2014. The pessimist in me thinks we still are from the government’s focus on other things. They’re all important but actually they are not if you cannot defend yourselves internally or externally.
Maybe there’s a lot going on behind the scenes. It’s often that way. For example, it was a good number of months before the media picked up the work the team I was part of were doing with regard to Brexit. And even then, only fractions became public. So my dearest hope is that the same is happening with defence.
I also hope if needs be that Starmer can change his studious, measured Chamberlain style approach to something more proactive if (and it’s a big if) he needs to.
2.5% sometime never is miles short of what’s required. It tells Putin and his buddy Trump we are not serious. We were spending 5% at the time of the gulf war and that wasn’t particularly adequate.
What’s happening really reminds me of 1938. After Munich, rearmament was slowed to virtually a standstill until Germany swallowed the rest of Czecho. Germany did not and much of the armour used to destroy Europe was made in Czechoslovakia factories in that period.
A purposeful smile, big flags and snappy suit isn’t going to cut it Messrs Starmer and Macron. I understand desperate hope, head in the sand, spending on other priorities and hoping it’ll all go away. Don’t we all.
Sadly it won’t.
Edit: Poland and the surrounding countries obviously recognise the threat. [Post edited 19 Mar 22:49]
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| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 08:20 - Mar 20 with 474 views | Churchman |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 22:48 - Mar 19 by Churchman |
I think Western Europe has been in complete denial ever since Putin decided on rebuilding the Russian Empire before 2014. The pessimist in me thinks we still are from the government’s focus on other things. They’re all important but actually they are not if you cannot defend yourselves internally or externally.
Maybe there’s a lot going on behind the scenes. It’s often that way. For example, it was a good number of months before the media picked up the work the team I was part of were doing with regard to Brexit. And even then, only fractions became public. So my dearest hope is that the same is happening with defence.
I also hope if needs be that Starmer can change his studious, measured Chamberlain style approach to something more proactive if (and it’s a big if) he needs to.
2.5% sometime never is miles short of what’s required. It tells Putin and his buddy Trump we are not serious. We were spending 5% at the time of the gulf war and that wasn’t particularly adequate.
What’s happening really reminds me of 1938. After Munich, rearmament was slowed to virtually a standstill until Germany swallowed the rest of Czecho. Germany did not and much of the armour used to destroy Europe was made in Czechoslovakia factories in that period.
A purposeful smile, big flags and snappy suit isn’t going to cut it Messrs Starmer and Macron. I understand desperate hope, head in the sand, spending on other priorities and hoping it’ll all go away. Don’t we all.
Sadly it won’t.
Edit: Poland and the surrounding countries obviously recognise the threat. [Post edited 19 Mar 22:49]
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Interesting article on Trump, Putin from the Independent.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/putin-trump-call-ukraine-peace-e | | | |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 09:35 - Mar 20 with 422 views | bluejacko |
| Sawing Ukraine off at the knees on 19:17 - Mar 19 by mellowblue |
mate, I'm well informed, no prob. As much as I dislike the Russians, they are a war machine. As in WWII once they are geared up for war, they are hard to beat. Ukraine are struggling, valiantly, but they are struggling, their best outcome is a stalemate which we are not at yet. |
Well this “war machine” after 3 yrs of war have not achieved any of their strategic objectives!
Russia holds all the cards and Kursk was a disaster parroting trumps narrative does not speak well of your informants really does it? If the Ukrainians agreed with you then why are they across the border in Belgorod oblast this time and making small gains in the east because of Russia having to split resources away from that front?
Of course it’s hard on Ukraine but it’s no bed of roses for the Orcs either! | | | |
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