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At least the media isn't focusing quite as much on Gaza now, eh?
Funny how, after the week Israel had been having with regards to media attention on Gaza, they should suddenly reach the decision to start a war with Iran as well...
Or can we not say that, on the basis that it's antisemitic to suggest that Israel 'plots' things?
When did Israel go into Gaza, kill a load of innocent civilians, take them back into Israel on pick up trucks and parade their bodies around Jerusalem for people to spit on them and kick them? I must have missed that on the news.
Wow Have you read anything about the last 70 years of this conflict and all the imbalances in casualties and deaths? I doubt it as your ignorance is in plain sight Being an IDF apologist is not a great look
And yes i do unreservedly condemn the October 23 attacks as despicable terrorism But murdering of 10s of thousands of civilians is horrific by most peoples standards
Funny how we had no enemies in the ME before 1948.
You could say that the British Government of the time bears a lot of responsibility for what has been happening since 48. But sadly, this has been going on for centuries in one guise or another.
F4ck knows why this still as to be explained to you. But being against genocide and ethnic cleansing does not make you pro Hamas.
It was a feature of the discussion on TWTD, and in much of the media, early on in the conflict that those who weren't fully supportive of all aspects of Israeli action were impliedly or even explicitly labelled as Hamas supporters or even as antisemitic.
It's good that that sort of attitude has largely gone away, not least because the horrors in Gaza even have the BBC and Sky News now reporting what is going on in a way that they didn't in the early months of the conflict.
So it is a shame to see such a smear appearing on this thread.
As it is, there are even Israeli Jews (especially the families of the hostages) who oppose what Israel is doing. Are they too Hamas supporters?
Hi there 'balanced poster', how many times does it have to be pointed out. Hamas are bad, genocide is bad.
People who posted ceasefire now are not Hamas supporters, they are/were people who didn't want to see genocide and ethnic cleansing carried out in Gaza.
Why on earth would any sane country defend a country carrying out genocide in exchange for them giving a bit more food to the innocent people they are choosing to starve to death?
Surely any support for a country carrying out genocide should be in exchange for instantly ending their genocidal campaign?
It was an interesting comment from J2 wasn't it Leitrim and I say that as one of the most attractive and popular members of the board.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Wow Have you read anything about the last 70 years of this conflict and all the imbalances in casualties and deaths? I doubt it as your ignorance is in plain sight Being an IDF apologist is not a great look
And yes i do unreservedly condemn the October 23 attacks as despicable terrorism But murdering of 10s of thousands of civilians is horrific by most peoples standards
[Post edited 18 Jun 13:55]
I am aware of the history of conflict yes - most of which seem to involve Israel being invaded by its arab neighbours.
May 1948: Israel declares its independence as the British rule ends. Sparked by Israel’s declaration of independence, the first Arab-Israeli War begins. Egypt (supported by Saudi Arabian, Sudanese, and Yemeni troops), Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria invade Israel. The fighting continues until 1949, when Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria sign armistice agreements.
June 1967: Israel and several of its Arab neighbors fight the Six-Day War. Israel wins a decisive victory: it suffers seven hundred casualties; its adversaries suffer nearly twenty thousand. Israel emerges with control of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip—areas inhabited primarily by Palestinians—as well as all of East Jerusalem. Israel also takes control of Syria’s Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula, which is part of Egypt. Israel will stay in the Sinai Peninsula until April 1982.
October 1973: Another Arab-Israeli war, known variously as the Yom Kippur War, the Ramadan War, and the October War, is fought when Egypt and Syria attempt to retake the Israeli-occupied Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights. Cold War tensions spike as the Soviet Union aids Egypt and Syria and the United States aids Israel. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries begins an oil embargo on countries that support Israel, and the price of oil skyrockets. The fighting ends after a UN-sponsored ceasefire (negotiated by the United States and the Soviet Union) takes hold. The UN Security Council passes Resolution 338, which calls for implementing UN Security Council Resolution 242.
I am aware of the history of conflict yes - most of which seem to involve Israel being invaded by its arab neighbours.
May 1948: Israel declares its independence as the British rule ends. Sparked by Israel’s declaration of independence, the first Arab-Israeli War begins. Egypt (supported by Saudi Arabian, Sudanese, and Yemeni troops), Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria invade Israel. The fighting continues until 1949, when Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria sign armistice agreements.
June 1967: Israel and several of its Arab neighbors fight the Six-Day War. Israel wins a decisive victory: it suffers seven hundred casualties; its adversaries suffer nearly twenty thousand. Israel emerges with control of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip—areas inhabited primarily by Palestinians—as well as all of East Jerusalem. Israel also takes control of Syria’s Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula, which is part of Egypt. Israel will stay in the Sinai Peninsula until April 1982.
October 1973: Another Arab-Israeli war, known variously as the Yom Kippur War, the Ramadan War, and the October War, is fought when Egypt and Syria attempt to retake the Israeli-occupied Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights. Cold War tensions spike as the Soviet Union aids Egypt and Syria and the United States aids Israel. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries begins an oil embargo on countries that support Israel, and the price of oil skyrockets. The fighting ends after a UN-sponsored ceasefire (negotiated by the United States and the Soviet Union) takes hold. The UN Security Council passes Resolution 338, which calls for implementing UN Security Council Resolution 242.
But hey, Israel took some land that one time.
good to know nothing's happened in the region for the last 52 years; thanks for that balanced summary
I am aware of the history of conflict yes - most of which seem to involve Israel being invaded by its arab neighbours.
May 1948: Israel declares its independence as the British rule ends. Sparked by Israel’s declaration of independence, the first Arab-Israeli War begins. Egypt (supported by Saudi Arabian, Sudanese, and Yemeni troops), Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria invade Israel. The fighting continues until 1949, when Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria sign armistice agreements.
June 1967: Israel and several of its Arab neighbors fight the Six-Day War. Israel wins a decisive victory: it suffers seven hundred casualties; its adversaries suffer nearly twenty thousand. Israel emerges with control of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip—areas inhabited primarily by Palestinians—as well as all of East Jerusalem. Israel also takes control of Syria’s Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula, which is part of Egypt. Israel will stay in the Sinai Peninsula until April 1982.
October 1973: Another Arab-Israeli war, known variously as the Yom Kippur War, the Ramadan War, and the October War, is fought when Egypt and Syria attempt to retake the Israeli-occupied Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights. Cold War tensions spike as the Soviet Union aids Egypt and Syria and the United States aids Israel. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries begins an oil embargo on countries that support Israel, and the price of oil skyrockets. The fighting ends after a UN-sponsored ceasefire (negotiated by the United States and the Soviet Union) takes hold. The UN Security Council passes Resolution 338, which calls for implementing UN Security Council Resolution 242.
But hey, Israel took some land that one time.
None of what you have copied and pasted involve Israel being invaded, what are you talking about? And Israel has been continually annexing land since 1967.
It was a feature of the discussion on TWTD, and in much of the media, early on in the conflict that those who weren't fully supportive of all aspects of Israeli action were impliedly or even explicitly labelled as Hamas supporters or even as antisemitic.
It's good that that sort of attitude has largely gone away, not least because the horrors in Gaza even have the BBC and Sky News now reporting what is going on in a way that they didn't in the early months of the conflict.
So it is a shame to see such a smear appearing on this thread.
As it is, there are even Israeli Jews (especially the families of the hostages) who oppose what Israel is doing. Are they too Hamas supporters?
[Post edited 18 Jun 14:07]
To be honest DJR, I thought we were way beyond people insinuating support for Hamas from people opposed to the awful genocide we see played out on our screens every day.
Can only hope, moving forward our 'balanced poster' as a bit of a rethink before labelling people as Hamas supporters in the future
To be honest DJR, I thought we were way beyond people insinuating support for Hamas from people opposed to the awful genocide we see played out on our screens every day.
Can only hope, moving forward our 'balanced poster' as a bit of a rethink before labelling people as Hamas supporters in the future
Our self-proclaimed ‘balanced poster’ also seems to have annointed himself as some sort of authority on all things Israel, tossing accusations around like some cheap Gorbals Blue tribute act.
Hopefully we can put it down to the warm weather and a slipshod rehydration regime rather anything more sinister…
You want me to go back over almost two years of your posts to find evidence? You should report it as abuse if it's unfounded.
I'm off to watch Ascot and the Man City game. In the meantime Team Palestine (was so tempted to say Team Hamas..) can all post patting you on the back and telling you to ignore the nasty man...
Edit: You also avoided the question...
[Post edited 18 Jun 13:26]
Oh well if you insist.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Our self-proclaimed ‘balanced poster’ also seems to have annointed himself as some sort of authority on all things Israel, tossing accusations around like some cheap Gorbals Blue tribute act.
Hopefully we can put it down to the warm weather and a slipshod rehydration regime rather anything more sinister…
In defence of the accused, J2 is normally one of the least tribal posters on here and doesn’t automatically follow the viewpoint of a particular political or social group. So in that respect is relatively well balanced. It’s not fair to accuse reuser of being a Hamas supporter though. That’s old school lazy stereotyping that we saw plenty of from October 7th onwards (DJR puts it better).
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone support Hamas on here. I’ve lost count of the times people criticising Israel have also gone out of the way to condemn the Hamas attacks. They shouldn’t have to really, we should be able to criticise genocide outright. As far as I’ve seen, everyone on here was appalled by the attack and capture of hostages.
One elephant in the room. At the last count, I’m fairly sure all the Hamas leaders had been killed. Mohammed Sinwar was the last big name left, but he’s been confirmed killed. If that’s true, shouldn’t Israel declare the war won and cease attacking? Or am I wrong on the Hamas leadership (plenty of martyrs, so I suppose there’s no shortage of Palestinians willing to pick up the fight and things change quickly).
Our self-proclaimed ‘balanced poster’ also seems to have annointed himself as some sort of authority on all things Israel, tossing accusations around like some cheap Gorbals Blue tribute act.
Hopefully we can put it down to the warm weather and a slipshod rehydration regime rather anything more sinister…
PS. What I was meant to say, but got side tracked rambling… Yeah you’re right, people are getting a bit tetchy on here lately. We need more lovin’.
As Cerys Matthews would say, ‘The Sun is shining, we should be making hay…make hay not war’ (eff knows what grass has got to do with it though 🤷♂️):
In defence of the accused, J2 is normally one of the least tribal posters on here and doesn’t automatically follow the viewpoint of a particular political or social group. So in that respect is relatively well balanced. It’s not fair to accuse reuser of being a Hamas supporter though. That’s old school lazy stereotyping that we saw plenty of from October 7th onwards (DJR puts it better).
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone support Hamas on here. I’ve lost count of the times people criticising Israel have also gone out of the way to condemn the Hamas attacks. They shouldn’t have to really, we should be able to criticise genocide outright. As far as I’ve seen, everyone on here was appalled by the attack and capture of hostages.
One elephant in the room. At the last count, I’m fairly sure all the Hamas leaders had been killed. Mohammed Sinwar was the last big name left, but he’s been confirmed killed. If that’s true, shouldn’t Israel declare the war won and cease attacking? Or am I wrong on the Hamas leadership (plenty of martyrs, so I suppose there’s no shortage of Palestinians willing to pick up the fight and things change quickly).
Thank you.
Hopefully this will be my last semi argumentative post on this thread.
A few things...
I haven't accused reuser of anything
I have edited my post and I apologise to Bankster for what I said. Cheerleading was the wrong word and not accurate. I do think it's very fair to say he came very close to saying the attacks were justified but looking back he did also condemn the violence (at times) so again, apologies. I have also had several comments from Bankster about being Team Israel and not really caring about what happens in Gaza. Again, not true, so perhaps we can both recognise the other is more nuanced than perhaps we thought.
I made one comment about one specific poster. There have been a few replies about how I have said or implied that anyone who opposes the genocide is pro Hamas. Absolutely not true. Netanyahu is a war criminal. When looking back at posts there was one where Bankster posted something from somewhere (can't remember where) which mentioned Biden was now written on Israel's heart in gold for simply making a speech saying America had Israel's back. God knows where Trump's name is written and with what material when he is basically allowing them to do anything. I agree with you Swanners that you should be able to criticise genocide. I have done so repeatedly despite some wanting to pretend I support Israel like a football team.
On a semi related note, I think Starmer and other leaders are getting a lot of stick. There is not much any of them can do when Trump is insane and we still need America to hold back Russia (not that Trump is doing a great job). In response to VT I do think I am balanced. This is all such a complicated mess that there are no simple solutions. I don't think we can blame Israel for being paranoid. I've seen reports that Iran could be three years away from having nuclear weapons. That's a timeline that if you get wrong you can suddenly have a country who is on record as wanting to wipe you off the map and that supports militant groups having nukes. Not saying the attack on Iran is justified but don't think we can ignore the wider context either. Of course that does not justify the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. You have to be pretty sick to open fire on unarmed civilians queueing for aid. To do it with tanks is a new level of sick and twisted.
Oh and Big Al, I have never claimed to be an authority on Israel and certainly haven't tossed accusations around apart from the obvious exception. You have been on my ignore list but I wanted to see what Swanners was replying to. You've now been taken off in the spirit of playing nicely. I am sure you are thrilled
Anyway, olive branches offered. I will try not to post too much on this issue in future. Or certainly post in a more constructive way.
Hopefully this will be my last semi argumentative post on this thread.
A few things...
I haven't accused reuser of anything
I have edited my post and I apologise to Bankster for what I said. Cheerleading was the wrong word and not accurate. I do think it's very fair to say he came very close to saying the attacks were justified but looking back he did also condemn the violence (at times) so again, apologies. I have also had several comments from Bankster about being Team Israel and not really caring about what happens in Gaza. Again, not true, so perhaps we can both recognise the other is more nuanced than perhaps we thought.
I made one comment about one specific poster. There have been a few replies about how I have said or implied that anyone who opposes the genocide is pro Hamas. Absolutely not true. Netanyahu is a war criminal. When looking back at posts there was one where Bankster posted something from somewhere (can't remember where) which mentioned Biden was now written on Israel's heart in gold for simply making a speech saying America had Israel's back. God knows where Trump's name is written and with what material when he is basically allowing them to do anything. I agree with you Swanners that you should be able to criticise genocide. I have done so repeatedly despite some wanting to pretend I support Israel like a football team.
On a semi related note, I think Starmer and other leaders are getting a lot of stick. There is not much any of them can do when Trump is insane and we still need America to hold back Russia (not that Trump is doing a great job). In response to VT I do think I am balanced. This is all such a complicated mess that there are no simple solutions. I don't think we can blame Israel for being paranoid. I've seen reports that Iran could be three years away from having nuclear weapons. That's a timeline that if you get wrong you can suddenly have a country who is on record as wanting to wipe you off the map and that supports militant groups having nukes. Not saying the attack on Iran is justified but don't think we can ignore the wider context either. Of course that does not justify the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank. You have to be pretty sick to open fire on unarmed civilians queueing for aid. To do it with tanks is a new level of sick and twisted.
Oh and Big Al, I have never claimed to be an authority on Israel and certainly haven't tossed accusations around apart from the obvious exception. You have been on my ignore list but I wanted to see what Swanners was replying to. You've now been taken off in the spirit of playing nicely. I am sure you are thrilled
Anyway, olive branches offered. I will try not to post too much on this issue in future. Or certainly post in a more constructive way.
It was cheerleading that stood out, so sorry if I’m behind the edits. You’re a good egg buh, no need for people to start to pile on. We could all whip our oiled, naked buttocks with those olive branches. Too much? Maybe it’s too early for that, but I’ve been on worse ‘team building’ exercises
It was cheerleading that stood out, so sorry if I’m behind the edits. You’re a good egg buh, no need for people to start to pile on. We could all whip our oiled, naked buttocks with those olive branches. Too much? Maybe it’s too early for that, but I’ve been on worse ‘team building’ exercises
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