| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum 07:52 - Aug 11 with 1360 views | Chrisd |
I noticed Palace had one go against them in the Community Shield yesterday which was quite similar to ours, where MacAllister clearly handles the ball, but that was ignored even with the use of VAR. Many suggesting that’s the rule for handball now, where in reality it’s still subjective.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNLjQxVM-k3/?igsh=MTg4bXJlbDYzZ2V0YQ== |  |
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:28 - Aug 11 with 1151 views | Wickets |
Yes I thought that too. Bit worried that VAR will just back the Ref as for me considering how the rules are now that was a clear and obvious error. |  | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:36 - Aug 11 with 1114 views | Chrisd |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:28 - Aug 11 by Wickets |
Yes I thought that too. Bit worried that VAR will just back the Ref as for me considering how the rules are now that was a clear and obvious error. |
Not quite as clear-cut as some thought it seems?! | |
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:56 - Aug 11 with 991 views | Durovigutum |
Well, obviously you can’t give a penalty against one of the big six - see Leif v Man City (away) for the textbook VAR protocol. |  | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:57 - Aug 11 with 978 views | leftback |
The difference is McAllisters hand weren’t in an unnatural position, you do need to leverage to jump, the other night Dykes hand were above his head the whole time which was very strange | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:05 - Aug 11 with 936 views | Bellevue_Blue |
I have sympathy for the officials. The officiating bodies have tied them in knots with different rule changes and interpretations.
What I would say is there a pretty clear distinction between our penalty on Friday and the one not given yesterday.
Dykes had his arms up in line with the head, looking at the ball and in a totally unnatural position, wether he meant it or not. I didn't understand the furore, that was a slam dunk pen all of last season in the PL.
Macalister, arm is behind his head and he's looking in the other direction so much harder to make the argument that its anything but completely unintentional. | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:14 - Aug 11 with 867 views | berkstractorboy |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:57 - Aug 11 by leftback |
The difference is McAllisters hand weren’t in an unnatural position, you do need to leverage to jump, the other night Dykes hand were above his head the whole time which was very strange |
I have seen an image that show Macallister arm was head height when it struck him I need to find out.
The biggest different for me was distance. Dykes was very close range he would have had no time to get his arm out of the way. The cross has come in a long way for Macallister, no excuse not to have moved hand out of the way. The excuse he was using it to balance of jumping, BS, we made sure it was exactly where the ball was coming down. | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:30 - Aug 11 with 808 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:14 - Aug 11 by berkstractorboy |
I have seen an image that show Macallister arm was head height when it struck him I need to find out.
The biggest different for me was distance. Dykes was very close range he would have had no time to get his arm out of the way. The cross has come in a long way for Macallister, no excuse not to have moved hand out of the way. The excuse he was using it to balance of jumping, BS, we made sure it was exactly where the ball was coming down. |
I think given that the ball went behind his head and was completely outside his eye-line and peripheral vision, it's pretty difficult for the ref to say that was anything but completely accidental.
Do you really want to see pens given for that? | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:49 - Aug 11 with 686 views | Chrisd |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 08:57 - Aug 11 by leftback |
The difference is McAllisters hand weren’t in an unnatural position, you do need to leverage to jump, the other night Dykes hand were above his head the whole time which was very strange |
Would you be disappointed if that wasn't awarded for us? [Post edited 11 Aug 10:00]
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:50 - Aug 11 with 678 views | FlittonBlue |
Could see the Brum penalty quite clearly from the away end, could see the hand up and ball was stopped by it. Immediate reaction was its a penalty but the ref wouldnt give it, one of those where there isnt a clear cut answer and arguments both way...after our issues with VAR / referees last season it was nice to get one in our favour! | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:58 - Aug 11 with 630 views | Chrisd |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:05 - Aug 11 by Bellevue_Blue |
I have sympathy for the officials. The officiating bodies have tied them in knots with different rule changes and interpretations.
What I would say is there a pretty clear distinction between our penalty on Friday and the one not given yesterday.
Dykes had his arms up in line with the head, looking at the ball and in a totally unnatural position, wether he meant it or not. I didn't understand the furore, that was a slam dunk pen all of last season in the PL.
Macalister, arm is behind his head and he's looking in the other direction so much harder to make the argument that its anything but completely unintentional. |
I don't see that it is. If you watch Dykes on Friday night, he's tracking the ball with his eyes from Young's delivery, yes his arms are up, when the ball goes over his head then he attempts to head it, but then Greaves heads the ball against his arm. MacAllister's arm is up as the ball goes over his head too, I would argue that his arm is in an unnatural position as well. With Dykes you could argue he has used his arms for leverage to allow him to jump to attack the ball, MacAllister isn't jumping to head the ball. For me, there's not a lot of difference with both situations.
Who'd be a referee these days?! :) [Post edited 11 Aug 10:01]
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:00 - Aug 11 with 618 views | bsw72 |
That should have been given, expecially by VAR - 100% an error not to award it.
The only slight difference to Friday night is that the impact on the ball's direction was not significant, it still fell to the palace player, but I am clutching at very vague straws |  | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:04 - Aug 11 with 582 views | RIPbobby |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:00 - Aug 11 by bsw72 |
That should have been given, expecially by VAR - 100% an error not to award it.
The only slight difference to Friday night is that the impact on the ball's direction was not significant, it still fell to the palace player, but I am clutching at very vague straws |
I've said so many times they should just change the rule to if it hits the hand it is an infringement no question then. |  | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:07 - Aug 11 with 572 views | hatch |
BBC Sport’s live text referenced our handball incident and then put it to a poll whether Palace should have had a pen and when I voted it was around 70% in favour of a pen.
Both should have been pens by the letter of the law, but still soft. |  | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:26 - Aug 11 with 520 views | berkstractorboy |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:30 - Aug 11 by Bellevue_Blue |
I think given that the ball went behind his head and was completely outside his eye-line and peripheral vision, it's pretty difficult for the ref to say that was anything but completely accidental.
Do you really want to see pens given for that? |
The laws of the game determine if its a pen but clearly they are open to interpretation as there are different views of the incident.
Do I want to see pens given? Well yes in that case as I believe Macallister has tried to put his arm there but that's subjective and accept we both have different views of it.
For the ref in realtime it would be a hard one to call granted and if not sure you don't give it, but in their mind VAR will be a safety measure to help them out if they got it wrong. But a bit like cricket and umpires call, VAR is supposed to only change clear and obvious. For me VAR can watch the player and his movements and I just think once the ball over head Macallister moves his right arm into the path of the ball. It doesn't look like 'ball coming I must do everything to keep arm out of way'. | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:39 - Aug 11 with 481 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 09:58 - Aug 11 by Chrisd |
I don't see that it is. If you watch Dykes on Friday night, he's tracking the ball with his eyes from Young's delivery, yes his arms are up, when the ball goes over his head then he attempts to head it, but then Greaves heads the ball against his arm. MacAllister's arm is up as the ball goes over his head too, I would argue that his arm is in an unnatural position as well. With Dykes you could argue he has used his arms for leverage to allow him to jump to attack the ball, MacAllister isn't jumping to head the ball. For me, there's not a lot of difference with both situations.
Who'd be a referee these days?! :) [Post edited 11 Aug 10:01]
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Mac Alister is absolutely jumping for the ball. The ball actually hits his arm as he's in the process of landing and trying to balance on one foot. When anyone lands they put their arms out for balance. Add in the fact that he's not ever looking at the ball once it goes over his head, it's IMO impossible to say that is a) unnatural or b) deliberate.
I do agree though, very very difficult to interpret the rules both as a fan and as a referee. Seems to change every year.
[Post edited 11 Aug 10:42]
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:42 - Aug 11 with 467 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:26 - Aug 11 by berkstractorboy |
The laws of the game determine if its a pen but clearly they are open to interpretation as there are different views of the incident.
Do I want to see pens given? Well yes in that case as I believe Macallister has tried to put his arm there but that's subjective and accept we both have different views of it.
For the ref in realtime it would be a hard one to call granted and if not sure you don't give it, but in their mind VAR will be a safety measure to help them out if they got it wrong. But a bit like cricket and umpires call, VAR is supposed to only change clear and obvious. For me VAR can watch the player and his movements and I just think once the ball over head Macallister moves his right arm into the path of the ball. It doesn't look like 'ball coming I must do everything to keep arm out of way'. |
Answered above. Respect we see it differently but for me it's very hard to say 'he put his arm there' in a deliberate manner whilst looking in the opposite direction.
I'd be seething if we had a penalty given against us for that. | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:56 - Aug 11 with 409 views | Chrisd |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:39 - Aug 11 by Bellevue_Blue |
Mac Alister is absolutely jumping for the ball. The ball actually hits his arm as he's in the process of landing and trying to balance on one foot. When anyone lands they put their arms out for balance. Add in the fact that he's not ever looking at the ball once it goes over his head, it's IMO impossible to say that is a) unnatural or b) deliberate.
I do agree though, very very difficult to interpret the rules both as a fan and as a referee. Seems to change every year.
[Post edited 11 Aug 10:42]
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Yep, you are 100% right. If that happened against us, I would be disappointed if that wasn't given. I do feel a little sorry for the officials, they are stuck between a rock and hard place. They've got a tough gig with all the scrutiny. | |
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 11:10 - Aug 11 with 372 views | bsw72 |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 10:04 - Aug 11 by RIPbobby |
I've said so many times they should just change the rule to if it hits the hand it is an infringement no question then. |
Doesn't work - you'll get players just kicking footballs at peoples hands. | | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 11:37 - Aug 11 with 319 views | Ftnfwest |
yes thought that had to be given, although in real terms he actually brought the ball down far more conveniently for palace to score than otherwise would have been the case |  | | |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 12:41 - Aug 11 with 204 views | LankHenners |
One of the reasons the debate over refereeing decisions gets very dumb and tedious is people mistaking ‘similar’ for ‘identical’. |  |
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| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 13:03 - Aug 11 with 141 views | berkstractorboy |
| After our penalty on Friday night at Brum on 11:10 - Aug 11 by bsw72 |
Doesn't work - you'll get players just kicking footballs at peoples hands. |
Whilst not 100% the same, in hockey its clear that if the ball bits the opponents leg in the pen area it's a penalty corner. Players absolutely target hitting an opponent leg for this reason.
I think if footballers tried to hit hands deliberately for a pen it would become farcical. | | | |
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