| Anyone you know? on 10:47 - Sep 16 with 740 views | DJR |
There was a time when what was then called repatriation was largely confined to supporters of the National Front.
That makes the findings of a recent YouGov survey rather alarming because 45% of people supported the removal of large numbers of people who have come to the UK in recent years. The survey also indicated that ignorance about the level of illegal migration may be playing a part in such attitudes.
Here are some extracts from the narrative on the polling.
"Polling on immigration typically focusses on attitudes towards the level of new arrivals. But polls rarely cover another possibility of public opinion – that not only do people want immigration highly curtailed, but that they might also want to see large-scale removals of migrants.
A new YouGov poll testing attitudes to several immigration scenarios has found that almost half of Britons (45%) say they would support “admitting no more new migrants, and requiring large numbers of migrants who came to the UK in recent years to leave” – a figure which rises to 86% of Reform UK voters, but also encompasses sizeable minorities of Labour and Lib Dem voters (27% apiece).
On the face of it, this is an extraordinary finding, coming as it does at a time when immigration is a key focus of government and public attention. However, a more detailed examination of attitudes shows a nuanced picture, suggesting that much of this apparent hostility may stem from a simple misconception.
Are more migrants in the UK legally or illegally?
Key to understanding this finding is the belief among the public that immigration to the UK is primarily ‘illegal’ rather than ‘legal’. Our research shows that almost half of Britons (47%) think there are more migrants staying in the UK illegally rather than legally, including fully a third of the public (32%) who think the illegal figure is “much higher”.
Crucially, this view is held by 72% of those who want to see mass removals. However, these perceptions appear to be wide of the mark.
Estimates of the population of illegal migrants living in the UK range from 120,000 to 1.3 million, with Reform UK’s Zia Yusuf recently putting the figure at 1.2 million.
Regardless of which figure from this range is chosen, it does not come close to the number of migrants living in the UK legally, with 2021/2022 census data putting the entire foreign-born population of the UK at 10.7 million." [Post edited 16 Sep 10:48]
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| Anyone you know? on 10:52 - Sep 16 with 681 views | witchdoctor |
| Anyone you know? on 10:35 - Sep 16 by positivity |
that doesn't change the point, if it's x people going to a rally organised by far-right racists, then that's x people too many.
if x is 50k or 100k or 50m, it's still worrying for the future of our nation |
how many of those who attended actually got to hear any speeches?…tiny minority I bet…dunno about far right but even if the monster raving loony party had organised it ..many ..many hundreds of thousands ordinary folk should have still taken to the streets… |  | | |
| Anyone you know? on 10:53 - Sep 16 with 686 views | positivity |
| Anyone you know? on 10:41 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
have you seen the arial shots of the crowd?..waaay more than 100,000.. [Post edited 16 Sep 10:42]
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arial shots? what makes you the font of all knowledge? |  |
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| Anyone you know? on 10:57 - Sep 16 with 639 views | positivity |
| Anyone you know? on 10:52 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
how many of those who attended actually got to hear any speeches?…tiny minority I bet…dunno about far right but even if the monster raving loony party had organised it ..many ..many hundreds of thousands ordinary folk should have still taken to the streets… |
why did they go to a march run by fairly well known far-right racists rather than organising their own which wouldn't be dominated by hate speech?
why should "many hundreds of thousands of ordinary folk" take to the streets? | |
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| Anyone you know? on 10:57 - Sep 16 with 625 views | witchdoctor |
| Anyone you know? on 10:53 - Sep 16 by positivity |
arial shots? what makes you the font of all knowledge? |
you haven’t seen them?..font of all knowledge?…hardly..but you’d have to be proper thicko to have actually seen the coverage and still maintain there was only a 100,000 folk who took to the streets on Saturday…folk of all creeds and colours I might add.., | | | |
| Anyone you know? on 10:58 - Sep 16 with 628 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Anyone you know? on 10:57 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
you haven’t seen them?..font of all knowledge?…hardly..but you’d have to be proper thicko to have actually seen the coverage and still maintain there was only a 100,000 folk who took to the streets on Saturday…folk of all creeds and colours I might add.., |
That's bold. |  | | |
| Anyone you know? on 10:59 - Sep 16 with 617 views | positivity |
| Anyone you know? on 10:57 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
you haven’t seen them?..font of all knowledge?…hardly..but you’d have to be proper thicko to have actually seen the coverage and still maintain there was only a 100,000 folk who took to the streets on Saturday…folk of all creeds and colours I might add.., |
concentrate on the word "font" and then work back! | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:00 - Sep 16 with 590 views | witchdoctor |
| Anyone you know? on 10:57 - Sep 16 by positivity |
why did they go to a march run by fairly well known far-right racists rather than organising their own which wouldn't be dominated by hate speech?
why should "many hundreds of thousands of ordinary folk" take to the streets? |
exactly…why did all those people take to the streets?…you say that every one of them was /is a die in the wool fascist?.. | | | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:01 - Sep 16 with 596 views | positivity |
some real wingdings on this thread! | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:03 - Sep 16 with 536 views | lowhouseblue |
| Anyone you know? on 10:44 - Sep 16 by itfcjoe |
Was listening to yesterdays News Agents podcast on this, they had a crime journalist on this who has covered marches like this in the past.
His view that most people on this were relatively normal, certainly not like NF marches previously and this is why they've gone from getting a few hundred, and a most a few thousand to 100-150k people.
But that these people were now parroting far right tropes - claiming that Immigrants were 20x more likely to be sex offenders, and that it was turning into North Korea, and that Charlie Kirk is a hero, etc. All this stuff is far right talking points and int he first 2 cases demonstrably untrue, and the 3rd is just online talk and not from the real world whatever your opinion of him is - and that brand of ultra Christian fundamentalist belief is just not something we have in the UK.
Their view is that the likes of the BBC are just sleepwalking - that they try to reflect what the people are interested, but ignore the fact that people are interested because someone like Elon Musk is elevating all this rubbish across social media, and they don't realise that he is putting a foghorn on things which in realisty are not important or true.
All this talk of 'Free Speech', this march was in London which must be one of the most tolerant, liberal cities in the world.
99% of the people on the march aren't the ones frothing at the mouth at the front of it, but these dangerous lies are being allowed to spread and infect peoples thinkings.
Tommy Robinson is an out there racist, that Elon Musk is pushing him and sharing a platform with him, and pushing his messages is dangerous.
The Centre/left/Liberals need to stand as one and push back against this, Labour need to lead this - as currently they are letting this fester - that this many people were on a march led by a known racist like Robinson is worrying; we can't let social media and the billionaire class continue to set the agenda, because they are not normal, not like us and not right with what they say |
that decent people would be prepared to march behind someone like robinson is very very worrying. musk pulling his strings is also very worrying.
but people parrot things they have read - you give the examples - when their real concerns run much deeper. the reason that they justify joining a march with those simplistic memes (sex offenders, north korea etc) is that its an easy way of saying that they are angry. the details don't really matter to them.
what underlies all this - just like america and just like brexit - is that a whole swathe of society feel that they have not had the benefits of the major changes affecting the country. since 2009 this has become more acute. globalisation since the 90s has brought little for those groups - good quality blue collar jobs have declined, incomes haven't risen, public services are poor, social housing is inaccessible. others in society have benefitted hugely - not just the wealthy but whole sections of the middle class who have seen admin / managerial roles expand and whole new 'professional' career paths emerge. the most direct expression of the way in which globalisation has impacted the left behind communities is immigration - it has had a huge effect on the availability of social housing and is perceived as unfair and to the disadvantage of those communities. it has led to a loss of trust in politics and state institutions and a sense that they have stopped listening and don't care. people believe that it has been imposed even though they have been promised by successive governments that it would stop.
so the lines that people quote to justify their anger - or why they march in london - are a read herring. there are much bigger forces explaining it and which are shaping politics at the moment. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:04 - Sep 16 with 557 views | positivity |
| Anyone you know? on 11:00 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
exactly…why did all those people take to the streets?…you say that every one of them was /is a die in the wool fascist?.. |
choosing to go to a march organised by well-known far-right racists, implies that the attendees were racist, naive or ignorant. did you go? what was your reason if so?
you didn't answer my question about why people *should* take to the streets | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:07 - Sep 16 with 514 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anyone you know? on 10:41 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
have you seen the arial shots of the crowd?..waaay more than 100,000.. [Post edited 16 Sep 10:42]
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Did you count them? |  |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:12 - Sep 16 with 477 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anyone you know? on 11:00 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
exactly…why did all those people take to the streets?…you say that every one of them was /is a die in the wool fascist?.. |
Do you have a favourite detergent for washing your woolly stuff in too? Can I recommend this.
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| Anyone you know? on 11:15 - Sep 16 with 457 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anyone you know? on 11:03 - Sep 16 by lowhouseblue |
that decent people would be prepared to march behind someone like robinson is very very worrying. musk pulling his strings is also very worrying.
but people parrot things they have read - you give the examples - when their real concerns run much deeper. the reason that they justify joining a march with those simplistic memes (sex offenders, north korea etc) is that its an easy way of saying that they are angry. the details don't really matter to them.
what underlies all this - just like america and just like brexit - is that a whole swathe of society feel that they have not had the benefits of the major changes affecting the country. since 2009 this has become more acute. globalisation since the 90s has brought little for those groups - good quality blue collar jobs have declined, incomes haven't risen, public services are poor, social housing is inaccessible. others in society have benefitted hugely - not just the wealthy but whole sections of the middle class who have seen admin / managerial roles expand and whole new 'professional' career paths emerge. the most direct expression of the way in which globalisation has impacted the left behind communities is immigration - it has had a huge effect on the availability of social housing and is perceived as unfair and to the disadvantage of those communities. it has led to a loss of trust in politics and state institutions and a sense that they have stopped listening and don't care. people believe that it has been imposed even though they have been promised by successive governments that it would stop.
so the lines that people quote to justify their anger - or why they march in london - are a read herring. there are much bigger forces explaining it and which are shaping politics at the moment. |
Shame you didn't see fit to support a more socialist model seeking to genuinely address these inequalities when it was available then isn’t it. | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:16 - Sep 16 with 440 views | DJR |
| Anyone you know? on 10:41 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
have you seen the arial shots of the crowd?..waaay more than 100,000.. [Post edited 16 Sep 10:42]
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The Express (not renowned for downplaying things on this type of issue) employed an expert in the estimate of crowd sizes and he came to the conclusion there were less than 100,000.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/i-m-an-expert-on-crowd-sizes-this-is-how-m
Maybe, however, he didn't count the number of observers.  [Post edited 16 Sep 11:19]
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| Anyone you know? on 11:19 - Sep 16 with 405 views | textbackup |
| Anyone you know? on 10:57 - Sep 16 by witchdoctor |
you haven’t seen them?..font of all knowledge?…hardly..but you’d have to be proper thicko to have actually seen the coverage and still maintain there was only a 100,000 folk who took to the streets on Saturday…folk of all creeds and colours I might add.., |
They’ve managed to see the few scuffles shown, but not the shots of the huge numbers in attendance. Weird that isn’t it. |  |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:19 - Sep 16 with 405 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone you know? on 09:43 - Sep 16 by Leaky |
These are people paying large sum's of money to crimminal gangs, in Europe . Surely Interpol should breaking these gangs, after all isn't that what your mate Starmer promised at the last election |
Starmer's not my mate.
I presume Interpol ARE trying to smash the gangs, and they (along with our intelligence) have stopped some. But it's a big issue, very difficult, and won't happen overnight.
The intention is the right one (compared to, say, waiting until they get here and then sending them to Rwanda... or claiming you'll stop them in 2 weeks - both of which are unworkable nonsense).
But I'm sure we (and the governments of Europe) would love to know if you have a better idea. |  |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:24 - Sep 16 with 368 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone you know? on 10:17 - Sep 16 by gtsb1966 |
So anyone who attended a Conservative party conference over the last few years was a racist then as well. I do remember many people on here calling the Rwanda policy a racist policy. You know as well as many on here that many of the men on the boats ,not all , are economic migrants that are not fleeing persecution. |
What has the Conservative party conference got to do with anything?! | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:24 - Sep 16 with 363 views | textbackup |
| Anyone you know? on 11:19 - Sep 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Starmer's not my mate.
I presume Interpol ARE trying to smash the gangs, and they (along with our intelligence) have stopped some. But it's a big issue, very difficult, and won't happen overnight.
The intention is the right one (compared to, say, waiting until they get here and then sending them to Rwanda... or claiming you'll stop them in 2 weeks - both of which are unworkable nonsense).
But I'm sure we (and the governments of Europe) would love to know if you have a better idea. |
I don’t know the answer to this, so genuine question.
Is there a certain point that where the boats get intercepted where by they either come here, or be taken back to France?
I’m assuming there is, however, I wonder is the French might ‘accidentally’ not see them until it’s too late | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:30 - Sep 16 with 318 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone you know? on 11:19 - Sep 16 by textbackup |
They’ve managed to see the few scuffles shown, but not the shots of the huge numbers in attendance. Weird that isn’t it. |
a) I've seen the wider shots, they've been all over the news.
b) No, it's not really weird that the news would show scuffles, seeing as they're a bit more newsworthy than people just walking along. | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:31 - Sep 16 with 312 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Anyone you know? on 11:24 - Sep 16 by textbackup |
I don’t know the answer to this, so genuine question.
Is there a certain point that where the boats get intercepted where by they either come here, or be taken back to France?
I’m assuming there is, however, I wonder is the French might ‘accidentally’ not see them until it’s too late |
I certainly wouldn't put that past the French! | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:33 - Sep 16 with 306 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anyone you know? on 11:19 - Sep 16 by textbackup |
They’ve managed to see the few scuffles shown, but not the shots of the huge numbers in attendance. Weird that isn’t it. |
Huge numbers of racists.....yippee! | |
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| Anyone you know? on 11:34 - Sep 16 with 292 views | witchdoctor |
| Anyone you know? on 11:04 - Sep 16 by positivity |
choosing to go to a march organised by well-known far-right racists, implies that the attendees were racist, naive or ignorant. did you go? what was your reason if so?
you didn't answer my question about why people *should* take to the streets |
I couldn’t make it unfortunately…nice generalision of those that did go though..believe it or not although you and your chums and your views are the ‘spoken’ majority on here in real life your are hopelessly in the minority…
so basically everyone ..in real life I have spoken to have been positive about the events of Saturday…the rascist..naive..ignorant…b*stds…
I’m not saying that there weren’t far right extremists at the rally and I abhor them as much as you..all I’m saying is that they were vastly outnumbered by normal folk and for you and your like to tar them with the same brush just shows your ignorance…
To answer your question..I reckon people feel frustration that it seems that loads of of dosh seems to be available for illegal migrants when things like home grown homelessness is prevalent..pensioners …who have paid into the system for years have to go cold in the winter..
Is that fair?
anyhoo…that’s my position and I’m sure that ..as far as this forum goes anyway…it’ll bite me on the arse and I’ll be down arrowed to fk…
but I don’t care…you’ve got your opinion and I’ve got mine…so as far as this convo goes…….thats me….over and out… | | | |
| Anyone you know? on 11:36 - Sep 16 with 268 views | witchdoctor |
| Anyone you know? on 11:19 - Sep 16 by textbackup |
They’ve managed to see the few scuffles shown, but not the shots of the huge numbers in attendance. Weird that isn’t it. |
scuffles..some of which came from the Met archives of a demo in 2020xzz
acknowledged further down this is incorrect…… [Post edited 16 Sep 12:20]
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| Anyone you know? on 11:36 - Sep 16 with 265 views | leitrimblue |
| Anyone you know? on 11:03 - Sep 16 by lowhouseblue |
that decent people would be prepared to march behind someone like robinson is very very worrying. musk pulling his strings is also very worrying.
but people parrot things they have read - you give the examples - when their real concerns run much deeper. the reason that they justify joining a march with those simplistic memes (sex offenders, north korea etc) is that its an easy way of saying that they are angry. the details don't really matter to them.
what underlies all this - just like america and just like brexit - is that a whole swathe of society feel that they have not had the benefits of the major changes affecting the country. since 2009 this has become more acute. globalisation since the 90s has brought little for those groups - good quality blue collar jobs have declined, incomes haven't risen, public services are poor, social housing is inaccessible. others in society have benefitted hugely - not just the wealthy but whole sections of the middle class who have seen admin / managerial roles expand and whole new 'professional' career paths emerge. the most direct expression of the way in which globalisation has impacted the left behind communities is immigration - it has had a huge effect on the availability of social housing and is perceived as unfair and to the disadvantage of those communities. it has led to a loss of trust in politics and state institutions and a sense that they have stopped listening and don't care. people believe that it has been imposed even though they have been promised by successive governments that it would stop.
so the lines that people quote to justify their anger - or why they march in london - are a read herring. there are much bigger forces explaining it and which are shaping politics at the moment. |
I think yer right about large swathes of the country not feeling the benefits of change and an improving society. Though I think it probably goes back way beyond 2009 unfortunately.
Large predominantly working class areas of the country have been completely neglected for decades by government after government. This of course leaves them open to the suggestions of Farage and more worryingly Tommy Robinson.
Labour and the Tories have both completely failed these communities. I would suggest they have had very little intention of attempting to prove the lifestyles etc of people in these areas. Unfortunately it's probably to late now to turn the tide now as there both just not trusted. |  | | |
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