Forum | Solution to the small boats crisis apparently by bluelagos

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:00 - Sep 25 with 1139 views

It is what most of Europe have been complaining we don't do and which would make a significant difference, for years.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:12 - Sep 25 with 1058 views

Guthrum

The vast majority of people in the UK already have some form of government ID - passport, driving licence, National Insurance number, NHS number, being on the Electoral Roll. That's without the whole host of private companies and organisations who have our details for subscriptions, logins, bank accounts and so on.

My only real objections to it would be on the grounds of cost and poor data security.

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Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:20 - Sep 25 with 1012 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:12 - Sep 25 by Guthrum

Agree entirely about cost and poor data security. Both are significant concerns where government driven IT is concerned.

That said, Google holds more on most of us already than this will lead to.

[Post edited 25 Sep 16:35]

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:26 - Sep 25 with 967 views

Clapham_Junction

The idea that ID cards are an "authoritarian stretch of the state into our personal lives" is sovereign citizen-level of nonsense IMO, and I've lived in a country where it was the law to always carry one.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:32 - Sep 25 with 936 views

Basuco

It is much easier to work illegally in the UK than in every other EU Country, the biggest driver in the rise in boat crossings were caused by leaving the EU. Or more exactly under the Dublin agreement, as under that no individual was legally allowed to apply for asylum in more than one EU Country and there was also a returns agreement as well, in fact 60,000 illegal immigrants were returned to France alone in the final year of EU membership.
I do feel that full biometric ID cards would make it much more difficult to employ illegal immigrants.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:33 - Sep 25 with 925 views

SuperKieranMcKenna

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:20 - Sep 25 by redrickstuhaart
Agree entirely about cost and poor data security. Both are significant concerns where government driven IT is concerned. That said, Google holds more on most of us already than this will lead to. [Post edited 25 Sep 16:35]

Though the difference there is that’s option i.e. if I don’t want x company to have my data I can choose not to use them. Sounds like there won’t be an opt out here. I suspect most MN data firms have better security than govt departments too, and even if there are breaches corporations are still held to GDPR and can be heavily fined/sanctioned/be forced to pay compensation - not a chance the state will be held to those standards.

This feels opportunistic to me, they’ve been indicating long term aspirations to bring in such a scheme and are using migration as a political football in my opinion.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:36 - Sep 25 with 901 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:33 - Sep 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna

I dont think its opportunistic. Its an obvious significant step towards solving a problem which (regardless of how real it is) continues to drive disatisfaction and the political agenda.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:39 - Sep 25 with 843 views

Basuco

Although if you have a smart phone Google monitors your every move and listens to every conversation you have, just to make sure they do not miss an advertising opportunity.
My old boss applied to Google to get his data from his mobile from a trip to Manchester and it showed every shop he went in and how long he stayed in that shop.
It is far too late to worry about anyone knowing where we are at any point, technology has progressed way too far.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:40 - Sep 25 with 843 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:32 - Sep 25 by Basuco

So at present it is illegal to employ someone who doesn't have the right to be here - that will remain exactly the same.

Why anyone thinks some dodgy car wash or takeaway owner who currently employs people here illegally will suddenly become a law abiding employer, I have no idea.

Poll:

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:46 - Sep 25 with 803 views

DJR

Surely the answer is bigger boats?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:47 - Sep 25 with 789 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:36 - Sep 25 by redrickstuhaart
I dont think its opportunistic. Its an obvious significant step towards solving a problem which (regardless of how real it is) continues to drive disatisfaction and the political agenda.

You think digital ID cards will deter people currently seeking asylum from seeking asylum?

Or those seeking to work illegally will suddenly decide not to work illegally? Or those happy to illegally employ workers now to suddenly stop?

I suppose it can be presented as the govt trying to address the issue but I'd rather they come up with solutions that might actually work.

And it does of course feed the narrative that those on boats aren't genuine refugees rather economic migrants happy to break our laws...but god forbid we actually challenge that rather than play along to Farage and his ilk.

Poll:

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:51 - Sep 25 with 762 views

ArnoldMoorhen

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:46 - Sep 25 by DJR
Surely the answer is bigger boats?

Careful, don't remind Farage of Jaws, or he will propose Great White Sharks as the solution!

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:54 - Sep 25 with 745 views

Basuco

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:40 - Sep 25 by bluelagos
So at present it is illegal to employ someone who doesn't have the right to be here - that will remain exactly the same. Why anyone thinks some dodgy car wash or takeaway owner who currently employs people here illegally will suddenly become a law abiding employer, I have no idea.

But if they pretend to be someone who is legally able to work employers have no way of knowing exactly who they are. With biometric ID there is no faking who you are, dodgy fake ID's will no longer work.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:59 - Sep 25 with 707 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:47 - Sep 25 by bluelagos

Certainly the Europeans thinks so. Not so much deterence, but speeding up the process of knowing who people are is a massive step. One of the frequent squabbles with our EU friends is that we exacerbate the problem by not having this.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:00 - Sep 25 with 704 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:54 - Sep 25 by Basuco
But if they pretend to be someone who is legally able to work employers have no way of knowing exactly who they are. With biometric ID there is no faking who you are, dodgy fake ID's will no longer work.

Currently employers are supposed to check an employees right to work...my ex partner was from the EU (permanent residency) and her employers would check online before she could start a job.

Employers don't simply take your word for it (unless they are.content to be lied to)

So I can't see how that changes in the slightest.

(Same with landlords checking a tenants right to be here)

Poll:

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:06 - Sep 25 with 675 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:00 - Sep 25 by bluelagos
Currently employers are supposed to check an employees right to work...my ex partner was from the EU (permanent residency) and her employers would check online before she could start a job. Employers don't simply take your word for it (unless they are.content to be lied to) So I can't see how that changes in the slightest. (Same with landlords checking a tenants right to be here)

Lots of employers are content to be lied to. They will be far more cautious about the consequences if there is no excuse.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:09 - Sep 25 with 654 views

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:06 - Sep 25 by redrickstuhaart
Lots of employers are content to be lied to. They will be far more cautious about the consequences if there is no excuse.

So it's about enforcing the laws of employment?

Not sure why OAPs, the retired and children are mandated to.have them...

Blunt instrument for solving a problem that it won't solve...

Poll:

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:12 - Sep 25 with 632 views

bsw72

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:32 - Sep 25 by Basuco

How do you come to the conclusion that it is easier to work illegally in the UK than in every other EU Country?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:15 - Sep 25 with 608 views

BrandonsBlues

I disagree

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:26 - Sep 25 with 562 views

DJR

A few observations.

1. This is very much a Blairite idea, and this is a second bite at the cherry, their thinking being that digital ID will be less objectionable.

2. I think Starmer et al think this will be a gamechanger in terms of winning people round on what they are doing with respect to the small boats.

3. It was unpopular then due in part to the reaction of the media and I think the right wing media will be relentless in criticising this.

4. It will be sold as helping in the fight against illegal migrants but I tend to think its main advantage would be secure access to public services (eg. HMRC) across a wide field, where currently there are different hoops for different services. For example, the rigmarole in terms of identity for renewing a driving licence online meant it was much quicker (although a little more expensive) for my wife to go to a post office, especially given the hoops would be different for renewing a passport.

5. On top of a physical identity card, Spain has a digital certificate system. Even though I don't have a Spanish ID card, I have a digital certificate which means I can securely access, say, the land registry, or the local tax office with very little effort.

[Post edited 25 Sep 18:19]

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:27 - Sep 25 with 551 views

BlueForYou

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:46 - Sep 25 by DJR
Surely the answer is bigger boats?

The correct answer is boats facing in the opposite direction! Nearly every country in Europe are getting tough on illegal migration now except us. That's going to attract even more illegals to book a boat trip. Just cannot see how forcing law abiding UK citizens to accept ID Cards is in any way stopping the problem. There has always been a huge opposition to ID Cards, & this is bringing them in through the back door. Can't see this happening personally.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:33 - Sep 25 with 518 views