Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 09:07 - Oct 9 with 1226 views | EJP | I like the little dig at (Now non-league) Southend United. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 09:12 - Oct 9 with 1186 views | Kievthegreat | I wonder if the Americans asked if we could buy them as a feeder team and if Ashton had to explain that wasn't allowed in England. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 10:13 - Oct 9 with 972 views | gtsb1966 | When you look at that lists of pros and cons there is nothing there to attract a buyer that I can see unless it's some super rich owner who wants it as a play thing. The saving grace for them is the present owner does care about the club and wouldn't let them go under. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 10:22 - Oct 9 with 929 views | _clive_baker_ |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 10:13 - Oct 9 by gtsb1966 | When you look at that lists of pros and cons there is nothing there to attract a buyer that I can see unless it's some super rich owner who wants it as a play thing. The saving grace for them is the present owner does care about the club and wouldn't let them go under. |
I think the catchment is probably the only real point of difference vs. some clubs. I know there's a lot of Ipswich in Colchester and North Essex, as well as Spurs and West Ham, but with supporters becoming increasingly disillusioned by the Premier League I could imagine a world where Colchester could, over time, build up a bigger fan base. There's plenty of headwinds though, not least the sh1tty soulless ground. Biggest challenge is probably the state of the industry more broadly. You're effectively signing up to lose a few million £ per season just to stand still. Its pretty much impossible to avoid that without becoming totally uncompetitive at that level. Most are owner financed and its not attractive is it? Robbie Cowling has lost a fooking fortune keeping them afloat. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 11:53 - Oct 9 with 762 views | Sharkey |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 10:22 - Oct 9 by _clive_baker_ | I think the catchment is probably the only real point of difference vs. some clubs. I know there's a lot of Ipswich in Colchester and North Essex, as well as Spurs and West Ham, but with supporters becoming increasingly disillusioned by the Premier League I could imagine a world where Colchester could, over time, build up a bigger fan base. There's plenty of headwinds though, not least the sh1tty soulless ground. Biggest challenge is probably the state of the industry more broadly. You're effectively signing up to lose a few million £ per season just to stand still. Its pretty much impossible to avoid that without becoming totally uncompetitive at that level. Most are owner financed and its not attractive is it? Robbie Cowling has lost a fooking fortune keeping them afloat. |
I think your first paragraph is spot on. Gates have risen consistently year on year, despite there being almost nothing to shout about, and some really drab football under the managers between McGreal and Bloomfield - who dug Colchester out of a pretty deep hole but who played almost anti-football to do so. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/colchester-united/besucherzahlenentwicklung/vere A lot of new fans will be from families that 'traditionally' supported West Ham and Spurs etc, and perhaps still do, but if you want to go the football with your mates then Colchester means those rivalries can be put aside. (I had a friend who grew up in Hertfordshire with mates who supported various London clubs, Watford, Manchester Utd Liverpool, but in later years when they were in their fifties all started going together to watch Boreham Wood.) As for the 'shitty soulless ground', that of course is a fair point, but it doesn't seem so shitty and soulless if you are actually supporting one of the teams. (Even away fans tend to praise the ground itself, as you get a good view, the stewarding is respectful, - and now of course the pitch is very good, thanks to Town's investment.) For younger supporters (and the crowd is noticeably quite young on average), it's the only ground they've ever known. For older supporters, it doesn't seem quite so shitty and soulless when you're queueing at half-time with 'good old boys' you recognise from away games in the 80s. The main problem is still the transport to and from the game, and even on Saturday many people will have missed the 6th goal because they wanted to 'beat the traffic'. A new car park in the nearby mall has helped a bit. 'Word on the street' was that Cowling really was close to selling the club, and the American offer was a serious one, but that he got 'cold feet', in just the same way a normal person might think it's time to sell off their vinyl collection but can't actually bring themselves to do it when they start boxing it up. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:02 - Oct 9 with 717 views | No_Moore_Kieffer | My understanding is that Cowling pulled the plug, as he wasn't sure on the legitimacy of their funding. Their company, website etc had all been set up with the intention of buying the club and had no real history of how they make money, where the investment was etc and didn't want to sell to them until they prove the money is genuinely there |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:10 - Oct 9 with 680 views | Radlett_blue |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 10:22 - Oct 9 by _clive_baker_ | I think the catchment is probably the only real point of difference vs. some clubs. I know there's a lot of Ipswich in Colchester and North Essex, as well as Spurs and West Ham, but with supporters becoming increasingly disillusioned by the Premier League I could imagine a world where Colchester could, over time, build up a bigger fan base. There's plenty of headwinds though, not least the sh1tty soulless ground. Biggest challenge is probably the state of the industry more broadly. You're effectively signing up to lose a few million £ per season just to stand still. Its pretty much impossible to avoid that without becoming totally uncompetitive at that level. Most are owner financed and its not attractive is it? Robbie Cowling has lost a fooking fortune keeping them afloat. |
You don't make a football club sustainable these days on the back of a larger fan base, if you mean people going to home games. All the finances are based on TV money from the Premier League, with some of that trickling down to the Football League. I assume all the Football League & the National League etc are dependent on owners continuing to be willing to lose £m each year, either because they can afford a plaything or because they hope someone will bail them out. |  |
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Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:26 - Oct 9 with 591 views | _clive_baker_ |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 11:53 - Oct 9 by Sharkey | I think your first paragraph is spot on. Gates have risen consistently year on year, despite there being almost nothing to shout about, and some really drab football under the managers between McGreal and Bloomfield - who dug Colchester out of a pretty deep hole but who played almost anti-football to do so. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/colchester-united/besucherzahlenentwicklung/vere A lot of new fans will be from families that 'traditionally' supported West Ham and Spurs etc, and perhaps still do, but if you want to go the football with your mates then Colchester means those rivalries can be put aside. (I had a friend who grew up in Hertfordshire with mates who supported various London clubs, Watford, Manchester Utd Liverpool, but in later years when they were in their fifties all started going together to watch Boreham Wood.) As for the 'shitty soulless ground', that of course is a fair point, but it doesn't seem so shitty and soulless if you are actually supporting one of the teams. (Even away fans tend to praise the ground itself, as you get a good view, the stewarding is respectful, - and now of course the pitch is very good, thanks to Town's investment.) For younger supporters (and the crowd is noticeably quite young on average), it's the only ground they've ever known. For older supporters, it doesn't seem quite so shitty and soulless when you're queueing at half-time with 'good old boys' you recognise from away games in the 80s. The main problem is still the transport to and from the game, and even on Saturday many people will have missed the 6th goal because they wanted to 'beat the traffic'. A new car park in the nearby mall has helped a bit. 'Word on the street' was that Cowling really was close to selling the club, and the American offer was a serious one, but that he got 'cold feet', in just the same way a normal person might think it's time to sell off their vinyl collection but can't actually bring themselves to do it when they start boxing it up. |
Thanks for your reply, I take a lot of interest in the business of football and commerciality of it, and I'm passionate about the existence of football clubs and their roles in the community, so I really hope Colchester gets strong new ownership. I agree re. the potential within the catchment. Colchester United should learn to love West Ham and Spurs, they're not competitors and shouldn't be seen as such. Rather they should act as perfect counter points for Colchester, and provide the opportunity to stand for something entirely different. Actively choose to be worse at the things those clubs are good at. If Spurs want Super League, Colchester wants Football League. If they charge £100 for a ticket, Col charges £15. If they're signing £50m players, Colchester grows its own. If they have multi billion $ Molson Coors on tap Colchester has local breweries. As the Premier League continues to disappear further up its own backside, the corporate nature of it, the disconnect between clubs and their communities, increase in ticket prices, potentially games played overseas which is something I wouldn't rule out etc, clubs like Colchester can provide the perfect antidote to that and own their role within the County and community. The question still remains of an owner of any club at that level, are you happy to cover the losses every year? That's a difficult sell, especially of a club without the assets like a ground or land. That's more a reflection of the broken industry than Colchester United. |  | |  | Login to get fewer ads
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:28 - Oct 9 with 587 views | Radlett_blue |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:26 - Oct 9 by _clive_baker_ | Thanks for your reply, I take a lot of interest in the business of football and commerciality of it, and I'm passionate about the existence of football clubs and their roles in the community, so I really hope Colchester gets strong new ownership. I agree re. the potential within the catchment. Colchester United should learn to love West Ham and Spurs, they're not competitors and shouldn't be seen as such. Rather they should act as perfect counter points for Colchester, and provide the opportunity to stand for something entirely different. Actively choose to be worse at the things those clubs are good at. If Spurs want Super League, Colchester wants Football League. If they charge £100 for a ticket, Col charges £15. If they're signing £50m players, Colchester grows its own. If they have multi billion $ Molson Coors on tap Colchester has local breweries. As the Premier League continues to disappear further up its own backside, the corporate nature of it, the disconnect between clubs and their communities, increase in ticket prices, potentially games played overseas which is something I wouldn't rule out etc, clubs like Colchester can provide the perfect antidote to that and own their role within the County and community. The question still remains of an owner of any club at that level, are you happy to cover the losses every year? That's a difficult sell, especially of a club without the assets like a ground or land. That's more a reflection of the broken industry than Colchester United. |
Yes, a community club has a place, but unless it's run at a sizeable loss, such a club is doomed to slide down the football pyramid as loss making clubs have higher wage bills & better players. |  |
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Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:32 - Oct 9 with 565 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:10 - Oct 9 by Radlett_blue | You don't make a football club sustainable these days on the back of a larger fan base, if you mean people going to home games. All the finances are based on TV money from the Premier League, with some of that trickling down to the Football League. I assume all the Football League & the National League etc are dependent on owners continuing to be willing to lose £m each year, either because they can afford a plaything or because they hope someone will bail them out. |
TV money is crucial, yes, but don't underestimate the significance of commercial income - for many clubs the commercial income is now greater than TV income - sponsorship (yes, looking at you Birmingham and Wrexham), merchandise, etc This is all about 'building the brand' as broadly as possible (and a big part of our strategy), and leveraging that brand needs a fan base (people to sell to). I'm not saying Colchester have much chance of doing this on a large scale , just pointing out that TV money is only part of the equation, and reducing in revenue percentage terms for clubs that build their brand well. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:35 - Oct 9 with 553 views | _clive_baker_ |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:10 - Oct 9 by Radlett_blue | You don't make a football club sustainable these days on the back of a larger fan base, if you mean people going to home games. All the finances are based on TV money from the Premier League, with some of that trickling down to the Football League. I assume all the Football League & the National League etc are dependent on owners continuing to be willing to lose £m each year, either because they can afford a plaything or because they hope someone will bail them out. |
No you can't on bums on seats alone, although it plays its part. A big challenge is player salary inflation which is nuts, so while top lines have grown, its found its way into the pockets of players and agents and losses have remained the norm. There's really 2 choices as an owner, 1) continue to dip your hand in your pocket and fund those losses every year, or 2) cut budgets to such an extent that the finances are washing their face, but in doing so accept that you're highly likely to be uncompetitive on the pitch. There's a very real correlation between budget and league position. Relegation = less revenues = less budget etc and that's a negative spiral. Ultimately you can't cut your way to financial sustainability AND expect to be competitive. What's the answer? Salary caps is an obvious start, but not without its challenges either. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:44 - Oct 9 with 516 views | Pinewoodblue |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:35 - Oct 9 by _clive_baker_ | No you can't on bums on seats alone, although it plays its part. A big challenge is player salary inflation which is nuts, so while top lines have grown, its found its way into the pockets of players and agents and losses have remained the norm. There's really 2 choices as an owner, 1) continue to dip your hand in your pocket and fund those losses every year, or 2) cut budgets to such an extent that the finances are washing their face, but in doing so accept that you're highly likely to be uncompetitive on the pitch. There's a very real correlation between budget and league position. Relegation = less revenues = less budget etc and that's a negative spiral. Ultimately you can't cut your way to financial sustainability AND expect to be competitive. What's the answer? Salary caps is an obvious start, but not without its challenges either. |
Re penultimate paragraph, as Marcus Evans showed us. |  |
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Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 13:04 - Oct 9 with 434 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:35 - Oct 9 by _clive_baker_ | No you can't on bums on seats alone, although it plays its part. A big challenge is player salary inflation which is nuts, so while top lines have grown, its found its way into the pockets of players and agents and losses have remained the norm. There's really 2 choices as an owner, 1) continue to dip your hand in your pocket and fund those losses every year, or 2) cut budgets to such an extent that the finances are washing their face, but in doing so accept that you're highly likely to be uncompetitive on the pitch. There's a very real correlation between budget and league position. Relegation = less revenues = less budget etc and that's a negative spiral. Ultimately you can't cut your way to financial sustainability AND expect to be competitive. What's the answer? Salary caps is an obvious start, but not without its challenges either. |
Bums on seats is only a small part of the ecosystem of football club finnances now isnt it. But they do still play a role and every person through a turnstile is a few more quid, rhe possibility to sell an extra pie or pint or both and cumulatively these things can add up. Colchester U average around 5k at home with a capacity of double that. Let's take a very rough aveage ticket price of £18, (adults seem to be £23 and concession £15) if they double their attendance that's an extra £90k PW going through the club and for a club like Colchester i think that makes a massive difference. Now obviously you can't account for the away contingent but even if they got an extra 2.5 k through the doors thats £45k a week plus additional spends. Its fine margins at that end I feel and a good strategy, a good product and match day experience that gets people through the gate can be huge for a lower league club, Colchester have the potential to do that is my feeling but execution is difficult. [Post edited 9 Oct 13:16]
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Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 13:40 - Oct 9 with 337 views | Illinoisblue | It’s a tough sell. Hey investors, would you like to spend 3million quid for the right to lose a lot more ? You won’t own the stadium, and you’re realistically at the level you belong at. Sign here, please. |  |
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Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 14:33 - Oct 9 with 247 views | _clive_baker_ |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 13:04 - Oct 9 by BlueandTruesince82 | Bums on seats is only a small part of the ecosystem of football club finnances now isnt it. But they do still play a role and every person through a turnstile is a few more quid, rhe possibility to sell an extra pie or pint or both and cumulatively these things can add up. Colchester U average around 5k at home with a capacity of double that. Let's take a very rough aveage ticket price of £18, (adults seem to be £23 and concession £15) if they double their attendance that's an extra £90k PW going through the club and for a club like Colchester i think that makes a massive difference. Now obviously you can't account for the away contingent but even if they got an extra 2.5 k through the doors thats £45k a week plus additional spends. Its fine margins at that end I feel and a good strategy, a good product and match day experience that gets people through the gate can be huge for a lower league club, Colchester have the potential to do that is my feeling but execution is difficult. [Post edited 9 Oct 13:16]
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I wouldn't necessarily say its a small part. It might not be the biggest revenue driver when compared to central payments from the football leagues, but its still material and arguably the most controllable bit (along with commercial revenues such as sponsorship). As you say if a club like Colchester can add 2,000 to the attendance x 23 games x £15 that's the best part of £1m which is a huge chunk for a club that's probably turning over £4m - £6m a year. Easier said than done of course, and still only reduces the £3m a year losses rather than eradicates them. |  | |  |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 14:37 - Oct 9 with 229 views | Sharkey |
Colchester - I thought the sale was going through on 12:02 - Oct 9 by No_Moore_Kieffer | My understanding is that Cowling pulled the plug, as he wasn't sure on the legitimacy of their funding. Their company, website etc had all been set up with the intention of buying the club and had no real history of how they make money, where the investment was etc and didn't want to sell to them until they prove the money is genuinely there |
I did hear that version too, but heard my version from someone I consider more 'in the know'. But your version may well be right. |  | |  |
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