| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:09 - Oct 23 with 1531 views | redrickstuhaart |
The fundamental issue is that doing the right long term things makes you unelectable.... |  | |  |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:52 - Oct 23 with 1404 views | HampBlue |
Tax wealth not income.
I do not understand how this message is not “mainstream”. Young people earning 60,70,80k are not “rich”. Especially considering these people probably have student loans, monster mortgages and getting taxed enough.
Meanwhile, people are hoarding wealth, making us all poorer in the process. | | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:54 - Oct 23 with 1392 views | J2BLUE |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:52 - Oct 23 by HampBlue |
Tax wealth not income.
I do not understand how this message is not “mainstream”. Young people earning 60,70,80k are not “rich”. Especially considering these people probably have student loans, monster mortgages and getting taxed enough.
Meanwhile, people are hoarding wealth, making us all poorer in the process. |
What level would you set it at? Assets over what amount? |  |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 22:26 - Oct 23 with 1300 views | Swansea_Blue |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:54 - Oct 23 by J2BLUE |
What level would you set it at? Assets over what amount? |
That millionaire group who campaign on taxes say 2% over £10 million. It’s apparently widely supported by the people in that bracket and would raise about £24/25 BN.
Tightening up corporation tax would be a vote winner. It’s crazy that multinationals can operate here, take our money but not pay tax like a UK registered company. This and a wealth tax alone would more than cover the £30BN gap. Or rejoin the EU, as the OBR has confirmed the hit to the public purse is about £40BN per year in lost taxes.
There’s about £85-90BN sitting there, but no government is serious about it. We could raise enough to fund half of the NHS operational costs per year or nearly 1.5x the DoE budgets for schools. But ‘votes’. The public aren’t prepared to encounter the idea of us taking such practical measures.
Reform of the council tax system which is massively regressive is another option, but I’m not sure what that would raise. There’s no shortage of workable suggestions, just a lack of political will. [Post edited 23 Oct 22:27]
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 22:34 - Oct 23 with 1245 views | J2BLUE |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 22:26 - Oct 23 by Swansea_Blue |
That millionaire group who campaign on taxes say 2% over £10 million. It’s apparently widely supported by the people in that bracket and would raise about £24/25 BN.
Tightening up corporation tax would be a vote winner. It’s crazy that multinationals can operate here, take our money but not pay tax like a UK registered company. This and a wealth tax alone would more than cover the £30BN gap. Or rejoin the EU, as the OBR has confirmed the hit to the public purse is about £40BN per year in lost taxes.
There’s about £85-90BN sitting there, but no government is serious about it. We could raise enough to fund half of the NHS operational costs per year or nearly 1.5x the DoE budgets for schools. But ‘votes’. The public aren’t prepared to encounter the idea of us taking such practical measures.
Reform of the council tax system which is massively regressive is another option, but I’m not sure what that would raise. There’s no shortage of workable suggestions, just a lack of political will. [Post edited 23 Oct 22:27]
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I think that's a good starting point. £10m is more than enough for anyone. Plenty for a nice house and enough invested to live comfortably. [Post edited 23 Oct 22:40]
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 22:37 - Oct 23 with 1218 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 22:34 - Oct 23 by J2BLUE |
I think that's a good starting point. £10m is more than enough for anyone. Plenty for a nice house and enough invested to live comfortably. [Post edited 23 Oct 22:40]
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You player you!
Edit...Boo to your love edit. [Post edited 24 Oct 8:38]
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:32 - Oct 24 with 915 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:52 - Oct 23 by HampBlue |
Tax wealth not income.
I do not understand how this message is not “mainstream”. Young people earning 60,70,80k are not “rich”. Especially considering these people probably have student loans, monster mortgages and getting taxed enough.
Meanwhile, people are hoarding wealth, making us all poorer in the process. |
Speaking as a pensioner on less than a quarter of what here is described as "not rich" I would expect you could easily pay off a mortgage with the £40-60k/year difference. Then they too could be free of debt within 5-10 years. |  | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:36 - Oct 24 with 908 views | BloomBlue |
I'm confused, not unusual I know.... but it was a £20billion black hole (quoting Labour) because of Tory financial mismanagement. Its now increased to a £30billion black hole because of Labour financial mismanagement? Nope apparently its because to fix the mess you have to spend more?
Lovely job politics, just twist it as you want. Almost as bad as the legal profession.
When I worked i can picture the situation...'Bloom this team overspent by £200k last year and its costing us £20k in interest payments, your job is to reduce that ok?' 12 months later 'Bloom you've increased the overspend to £300k, and £30k interest payments, excellent job, please enjoy yourself now that your sacked' |  | | |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:44 - Oct 24 with 875 views | bluelagos |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:32 - Oct 24 by flykickingbybgunn |
Speaking as a pensioner on less than a quarter of what here is described as "not rich" I would expect you could easily pay off a mortgage with the £40-60k/year difference. Then they too could be free of debt within 5-10 years. |
Older poster who worked when final salary pensions were generous, houses a fraction of what they cost today thinks it's "easy" to pay off a mortgage in 5-10 years.
Suspect you've not a clue at the level of payments needed to repay a mortgage early, the likely level of mortgage (given the huge house prices) and the impact of years of high inflation on basics like food, petrol, clothing etc. impacting on people's day to living expenses.
But yeah, it's easy - just need to stop buying all those lattes eh?
ffs. |  |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:49 - Oct 24 with 854 views | DJR |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:36 - Oct 24 by BloomBlue |
I'm confused, not unusual I know.... but it was a £20billion black hole (quoting Labour) because of Tory financial mismanagement. Its now increased to a £30billion black hole because of Labour financial mismanagement? Nope apparently its because to fix the mess you have to spend more?
Lovely job politics, just twist it as you want. Almost as bad as the legal profession.
When I worked i can picture the situation...'Bloom this team overspent by £200k last year and its costing us £20k in interest payments, your job is to reduce that ok?' 12 months later 'Bloom you've increased the overspend to £300k, and £30k interest payments, excellent job, please enjoy yourself now that your sacked' |
I think the issue is that before the election both parties ignored the warnings from the IFS about how difficult the financial situation was, a position made much worse by reckless and unfunded cuts to employees' NI.
Labour should have been honest, not made the pledge it did, and if nothing else reversed those Tory cuts. That would at least have avoided their increase in employers' NI which seems only to have damaged the economy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckkkk90lw50o
Tax rises hard to avoid over next 5 years, says IFS
Paul Johnson, director of the IFS, said: "These raw facts are largely ignored by the two main parties in their manifestos."
He said that "huge decisions over the size and shape of the state will need to be taken, that those decisions will, in all likelihood, mean either higher taxes or worse public services".
Whoever wins the election in less than a fortnight faces a "trilemma", said the IFS.
"Raise taxes by more than they have told us in their manifesto. Or implement cuts to some areas of spending. Or borrow more and be content for debt to rise for longer," it said.
"What will they choose? The manifestos have left us guessing."
Mr Johnson also criticised both Labour and the Conservative Party for ruling out increases to income tax, National Insurance and VAT.
[Post edited 24 Oct 9:05]
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:57 - Oct 24 with 817 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:52 - Oct 23 by HampBlue |
Tax wealth not income.
I do not understand how this message is not “mainstream”. Young people earning 60,70,80k are not “rich”. Especially considering these people probably have student loans, monster mortgages and getting taxed enough.
Meanwhile, people are hoarding wealth, making us all poorer in the process. |
Exactly, income tax has been going up for years due to fiscal creep anyway. People on 100k+ are already paying around 60pc on a lot of their income. Meanwhile the wealthy, business owners, self employed, and those with passive income are largely paying far lower rates than our nurses and teachers.
Besides the odd % increase on high (PAYE) earners is on such a small number it’s p1ssing in the wind. | | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:00 - Oct 24 with 797 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:32 - Oct 24 by flykickingbybgunn |
Speaking as a pensioner on less than a quarter of what here is described as "not rich" I would expect you could easily pay off a mortgage with the £40-60k/year difference. Then they too could be free of debt within 5-10 years. |
Wow! This country is cooked. |  | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:01 - Oct 24 with 790 views | WeWereZombies |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:49 - Oct 24 by DJR |
I think the issue is that before the election both parties ignored the warnings from the IFS about how difficult the financial situation was, a position made much worse by reckless and unfunded cuts to employees' NI.
Labour should have been honest, not made the pledge it did, and if nothing else reversed those Tory cuts. That would at least have avoided their increase in employers' NI which seems only to have damaged the economy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckkkk90lw50o
Tax rises hard to avoid over next 5 years, says IFS
Paul Johnson, director of the IFS, said: "These raw facts are largely ignored by the two main parties in their manifestos."
He said that "huge decisions over the size and shape of the state will need to be taken, that those decisions will, in all likelihood, mean either higher taxes or worse public services".
Whoever wins the election in less than a fortnight faces a "trilemma", said the IFS.
"Raise taxes by more than they have told us in their manifesto. Or implement cuts to some areas of spending. Or borrow more and be content for debt to rise for longer," it said.
"What will they choose? The manifestos have left us guessing."
Mr Johnson also criticised both Labour and the Conservative Party for ruling out increases to income tax, National Insurance and VAT.
[Post edited 24 Oct 9:05]
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If Labour had been honest then they wouldn't have been elected - which begs the question 'Well, the Conservatives were not honest, how come they didn't get elected ?' And the answer was because they were already in power and tied down by the weight of their own mistakes. Labour have less than four years to get things on track, will they do it ? Only if they start playing 4-3-3... |  |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:08 - Oct 24 with 765 views | bluelagos |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:00 - Oct 24 by FromReuserWithLove |
Wow! This country is cooked. |
Yet suggest we should ditch the triple lock and I suspect same poster would likely have a meltdown.
Pensioners (not all obs) really are some of the most entitled, clueless and selfish knobs around. Had all the benefits known to man (Free higher education, cheap houses and FS pensions) and then lecture the youngsters of today about how "easy" it is ffs.
I'm out...no point getting wound up :-) | |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:09 - Oct 24 with 760 views | DJR |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:01 - Oct 24 by WeWereZombies |
If Labour had been honest then they wouldn't have been elected - which begs the question 'Well, the Conservatives were not honest, how come they didn't get elected ?' And the answer was because they were already in power and tied down by the weight of their own mistakes. Labour have less than four years to get things on track, will they do it ? Only if they start playing 4-3-3... |
I don't buy that. People were sick of the Tories, and it is difficult to think that anything Labour said would have prevented their election.
And there is the old maximum "honesty pays in the long run". | | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:11 - Oct 24 with 747 views | BloomBlue |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:49 - Oct 24 by DJR |
I think the issue is that before the election both parties ignored the warnings from the IFS about how difficult the financial situation was, a position made much worse by reckless and unfunded cuts to employees' NI.
Labour should have been honest, not made the pledge it did, and if nothing else reversed those Tory cuts. That would at least have avoided their increase in employers' NI which seems only to have damaged the economy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckkkk90lw50o
Tax rises hard to avoid over next 5 years, says IFS
Paul Johnson, director of the IFS, said: "These raw facts are largely ignored by the two main parties in their manifestos."
He said that "huge decisions over the size and shape of the state will need to be taken, that those decisions will, in all likelihood, mean either higher taxes or worse public services".
Whoever wins the election in less than a fortnight faces a "trilemma", said the IFS.
"Raise taxes by more than they have told us in their manifesto. Or implement cuts to some areas of spending. Or borrow more and be content for debt to rise for longer," it said.
"What will they choose? The manifestos have left us guessing."
Mr Johnson also criticised both Labour and the Conservative Party for ruling out increases to income tax, National Insurance and VAT.
[Post edited 24 Oct 9:05]
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I do accept its difficult for politicians, as you can never please all, and any decision will have an impact somewhere. But its more a case of if its financial mismanagement in one situation, then making something worse can only be financial mismanagement again.
BTW I have an issue with IFS, have done for years. They claim to be the financial experts but completely missed the 2008 financial crash. That for me diminished their credibility, and has resulted in some ignoring of them | | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:13 - Oct 24 with 745 views | baxterbasics |
If they raise any more taxes on the middle earners - the increasingly small portion of the population who are actually productive and contributing - they are cooked. I'm ready to march on Westminster personally with pitchfork and flaming torch in hand. |  |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:14 - Oct 24 with 728 views | Swansea_Blue |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:36 - Oct 24 by BloomBlue |
I'm confused, not unusual I know.... but it was a £20billion black hole (quoting Labour) because of Tory financial mismanagement. Its now increased to a £30billion black hole because of Labour financial mismanagement? Nope apparently its because to fix the mess you have to spend more?
Lovely job politics, just twist it as you want. Almost as bad as the legal profession.
When I worked i can picture the situation...'Bloom this team overspent by £200k last year and its costing us £20k in interest payments, your job is to reduce that ok?' 12 months later 'Bloom you've increased the overspend to £300k, and £30k interest payments, excellent job, please enjoy yourself now that your sacked' |
DJR’s provided a good answer to that that I agree with. We need honesty and competency from politicians, but they ignore reality for the sake of gaining/retaining power. Reeves has always been reluctant to accept warnings and from the little I know seems a very limited operator. Not much imagination there. | |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:15 - Oct 24 with 713 views | DJR |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:11 - Oct 24 by BloomBlue |
I do accept its difficult for politicians, as you can never please all, and any decision will have an impact somewhere. But its more a case of if its financial mismanagement in one situation, then making something worse can only be financial mismanagement again.
BTW I have an issue with IFS, have done for years. They claim to be the financial experts but completely missed the 2008 financial crash. That for me diminished their credibility, and has resulted in some ignoring of them |
Maybe I am wrong but didn't everyone in the world miss the global financial crisis, which originated in the US due to a housing bubble and the repackaging of subprime loans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_financial_crisis#References [Post edited 24 Oct 9:23]
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:36 - Oct 24 with 643 views | jas0999 |
Can’t see much on here about Labours absolute hammering in Wales by election last night. Odd. | | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:41 - Oct 24 with 616 views | WeWereZombies |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:09 - Oct 24 by DJR |
I don't buy that. People were sick of the Tories, and it is difficult to think that anything Labour said would have prevented their election.
And there is the old maximum "honesty pays in the long run". |
If honesty pays long run then please explain Trump's re-election, and the suspicion that he will rig things and get elected again in 2028...even if he is a corpse, animatronics can do wonders. There seems to be a credible record of despots, autocrats and various other criminal types (or front men for criminal organisations) not just in the Putins and Maduros of the present day but in the Medicis, Ceasars and Pharaohs of the past. All it takes for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing is another old but pertinent saw. [Post edited 24 Oct 10:04]
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:43 - Oct 24 with 605 views | DJR |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:36 - Oct 24 by jas0999 |
Can’t see much on here about Labours absolute hammering in Wales by election last night. Odd. |
I posted something about it on the "This made me lol" thread. | | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:51 - Oct 24 with 575 views | jontysnut |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 08:44 - Oct 24 by bluelagos |
Older poster who worked when final salary pensions were generous, houses a fraction of what they cost today thinks it's "easy" to pay off a mortgage in 5-10 years.
Suspect you've not a clue at the level of payments needed to repay a mortgage early, the likely level of mortgage (given the huge house prices) and the impact of years of high inflation on basics like food, petrol, clothing etc. impacting on people's day to living expenses.
But yeah, it's easy - just need to stop buying all those lattes eh?
ffs. |
When we bought our first house in the 1980s rule of thumb for mortgages was 2.5 x salary. Unless you're pretty well paid that equation no longer applies to a large chunk of the market - depending where you live. |  | | |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 09:54 - Oct 24 with 563 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 21:52 - Oct 23 by HampBlue |
Tax wealth not income.
I do not understand how this message is not “mainstream”. Young people earning 60,70,80k are not “rich”. Especially considering these people probably have student loans, monster mortgages and getting taxed enough.
Meanwhile, people are hoarding wealth, making us all poorer in the process. |
Although statistically the top 0.1% of earners pay more income tax than the entire bottom 50%. |  |
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| “Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge on 10:01 - Oct 24 with 537 views | Leaky |
Well borowing money then giving it away to other countries doesn't help. Chagos Islands £100m a year, I rest my case |  | | |
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