| Mckenna said 10:15 - Dec 3 with 1565 views | gtsb1966 |
Teams play differently against us since the last time in the championship. If he knows this why cant we adapt then. I found that statement strange and worrying. |  | | |  |
| Mckenna said on 10:18 - Dec 3 with 1474 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
We do adapt. Our system changes a lot in game. The main issue is the speed of the build up. |  |
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| Mckenna said on 10:22 - Dec 3 with 1444 views | algy |
| Mckenna said on 10:18 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
We do adapt. Our system changes a lot in game. The main issue is the speed of the build up. |
Speed, fast or slow, of play is part of the system. |  |
| Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing. |
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| Mckenna said on 10:23 - Dec 3 with 1421 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Mckenna said on 10:22 - Dec 3 by algy |
Speed, fast or slow, of play is part of the system. |
Yep. But again there is a narrative that McKenna doesn't adapt. He does adapt, quite a lot. | |
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| Mckenna said on 10:24 - Dec 3 with 1410 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Mckenna said on 10:23 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Yep. But again there is a narrative that McKenna doesn't adapt. He does adapt, quite a lot. |
Just not effectively...... |  |
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| Mckenna said on 10:25 - Dec 3 with 1402 views | algy |
| Mckenna said on 10:23 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Yep. But again there is a narrative that McKenna doesn't adapt. He does adapt, quite a lot. |
Then adapt the speed then! | |
| Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing. |
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| Mckenna said on 10:27 - Dec 3 with 1384 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Mckenna said on 10:25 - Dec 3 by algy |
Then adapt the speed then! |
Equally the players could take some responsibility for that ? | |
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| Mckenna said on 10:28 - Dec 3 with 1376 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Been effective loads of times throughout his time here. | |
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| Mckenna said on 10:29 - Dec 3 with 1361 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Mckenna said on 10:28 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Been effective loads of times throughout his time here. |
Its not 2024 anymore.
Im not wanting KM to leave, I just want him to be effective again. | |
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| Mckenna said on 10:30 - Dec 3 with 1355 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Mckenna said on 10:29 - Dec 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Its not 2024 anymore.
Im not wanting KM to leave, I just want him to be effective again. |
Im sure he will.
Keep the faith | |
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| Mckenna said on 10:32 - Dec 3 with 1340 views | Stenvict |
McKenna has bemoaned the lack of time the ball is in play this season, compared to 2 years ago. Well, I've noticed recently that we're probably partly to blame for that. Against Oxford, we got a corner, Leif walked over to take it, floated it over everyone and out for a goal kick. 2 mins completely wasted.
Every goal kick, throw in, free kick, corner takes ages, because we have to make sure we're all in position. | |
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| Mckenna said on 10:33 - Dec 3 with 1323 views | TractorWood |
| Mckenna said on 10:23 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Yep. But again there is a narrative that McKenna doesn't adapt. He does adapt, quite a lot. |
He does but they are pretty subtle. His trust in the system and his starters mean to most people, he comes across very passive and that he expects the current 11 to solve problems they turn up to on a game by game basis.
Given the changes in players and constant rotation it's little wonder players don't really know up from down. Particularly if they are young or perhaps not sharp enough to know what KMcK is trying to do.
All in all, it's obvious that all of this is creating lots of problems when the whistle blows and we have to try and beat tactically limited but often very well drilled and physical teams. |  |
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| Mckenna said on 10:41 - Dec 3 with 1277 views | homer_123 |
| Mckenna said on 10:27 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Equally the players could take some responsibility for that ? |
If we step back for a moment.
Do we think that KM actively coaches 'slow, ponderous play'?
Broken record time from me. When you play with confidence and belief, you can play a lot more quickly. When you don't have that, you play more cautiously, safely, slowly.
So, it is on the players as much as KM.
As an aside, I have listened this season when we've played quickly and things haven't worked or we've gifted possession and fans around me have gone nuts! |  |
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| Mckenna said on 10:46 - Dec 3 with 1248 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Mckenna said on 10:41 - Dec 3 by homer_123 |
If we step back for a moment.
Do we think that KM actively coaches 'slow, ponderous play'?
Broken record time from me. When you play with confidence and belief, you can play a lot more quickly. When you don't have that, you play more cautiously, safely, slowly.
So, it is on the players as much as KM.
As an aside, I have listened this season when we've played quickly and things haven't worked or we've gifted possession and fans around me have gone nuts! |
"Do we think that KM actively coaches 'slow, ponderous play'?"
Imagine that training session. "So Darnell what you are going to do is receive the ball look down the line, not play the pass that is on to Sindre, or the ball that is on to Azor, or the ball you can fire in to George. What I want you to do is, take 10 seconds pondering and then pass it back to Dara, but slightly behind him so he can't control it instantly"
I simply don't believe it for a minute. | |
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| Mckenna said on 11:02 - Dec 3 with 1173 views | homer_123 |
| Mckenna said on 10:33 - Dec 3 by TractorWood |
He does but they are pretty subtle. His trust in the system and his starters mean to most people, he comes across very passive and that he expects the current 11 to solve problems they turn up to on a game by game basis.
Given the changes in players and constant rotation it's little wonder players don't really know up from down. Particularly if they are young or perhaps not sharp enough to know what KMcK is trying to do.
All in all, it's obvious that all of this is creating lots of problems when the whistle blows and we have to try and beat tactically limited but often very well drilled and physical teams. |
I watched Man U vs Everton a week or so ago.
Man U couldn't break down a 10 man Everton side.
There is an assumption (I know you haven't made this point) that a low block is easy to beat. I've said it numerous times - it's used by teams a huge amount because it is 'effective' - in fact very effective. For the reasons you detail in your post.
We haven't really struggled to create scoring opportunities against low block teams - we have struggled to convert those though. Couple that with some silly defensive/ individual errors and it has proved costly.
We don't lack the ability, nous or wherewithal to breakdown a low block. We need to be less wasteful in front of goal. [Post edited 3 Dec 11:03]
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| Mckenna said on 11:10 - Dec 3 with 1119 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Mckenna said on 11:02 - Dec 3 by homer_123 |
I watched Man U vs Everton a week or so ago.
Man U couldn't break down a 10 man Everton side.
There is an assumption (I know you haven't made this point) that a low block is easy to beat. I've said it numerous times - it's used by teams a huge amount because it is 'effective' - in fact very effective. For the reasons you detail in your post.
We haven't really struggled to create scoring opportunities against low block teams - we have struggled to convert those though. Couple that with some silly defensive/ individual errors and it has proved costly.
We don't lack the ability, nous or wherewithal to breakdown a low block. We need to be less wasteful in front of goal. [Post edited 3 Dec 11:03]
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Man Utd are a pretty woeful, ineffective, yet expensive team though.
To be more effective against a low block, a team needs to attack with pace and variety. | |
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| Mckenna said on 11:15 - Dec 3 with 1089 views | homer_123 |
| Mckenna said on 11:10 - Dec 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Man Utd are a pretty woeful, ineffective, yet expensive team though.
To be more effective against a low block, a team needs to attack with pace and variety. |
My point remains. A low block is not a simple, easy thing to breakdown.
We have, this season, created good scoring opportunities against teams that have employed this tactic against us. So we don't lack the ability to create scoring chances to beat these teams (using pace and variety as well as set pieces etc.). We haven't taken those chances.
Could we create more chances? Yes, for sure. Should we be better at converting them? Absolutely.
The wider point also remains, the low block is employed because it's effective. | |
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| Mckenna said on 11:20 - Dec 3 with 1065 views | grow_our_own |
| Mckenna said on 11:02 - Dec 3 by homer_123 |
I watched Man U vs Everton a week or so ago.
Man U couldn't break down a 10 man Everton side.
There is an assumption (I know you haven't made this point) that a low block is easy to beat. I've said it numerous times - it's used by teams a huge amount because it is 'effective' - in fact very effective. For the reasons you detail in your post.
We haven't really struggled to create scoring opportunities against low block teams - we have struggled to convert those though. Couple that with some silly defensive/ individual errors and it has proved costly.
We don't lack the ability, nous or wherewithal to breakdown a low block. We need to be less wasteful in front of goal. [Post edited 3 Dec 11:03]
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This. It's not that we aren't penetrating and creating good chances, it's that we're either shooting poorly, or choosing badly between final pass vs shot. This is not my opinion, this is counting: https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/leagues/48/stats/season/27195/teams/big_chance_miss
Good team goal for the equaliser last night. More of this needed. The number of times this season we've taken an unlikely shot on when there was an open team-mate ready for a tap-in has been infuriating. Eg McAteer at Oxford. Players have been more interested in trying for a YouTube montage hit rather than ITFC scoring a goal. | | | |
| Mckenna said on 11:26 - Dec 3 with 1045 views | TractorWood |
| Mckenna said on 11:02 - Dec 3 by homer_123 |
I watched Man U vs Everton a week or so ago.
Man U couldn't break down a 10 man Everton side.
There is an assumption (I know you haven't made this point) that a low block is easy to beat. I've said it numerous times - it's used by teams a huge amount because it is 'effective' - in fact very effective. For the reasons you detail in your post.
We haven't really struggled to create scoring opportunities against low block teams - we have struggled to convert those though. Couple that with some silly defensive/ individual errors and it has proved costly.
We don't lack the ability, nous or wherewithal to breakdown a low block. We need to be less wasteful in front of goal. [Post edited 3 Dec 11:03]
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I think that represents a good portion of games this season but not all by some distance. For example Blackburn played some good stuff and were unlucky not to win. Oxford were better than us. Wrexham did try and create and did look to win the the game until the 75th minute. Charlton humiliated us. Birmingham and Preston were pretty excellent against us and didn't just deploy cynical low block.
I do also think some people interpret other teams letting us have the ball as playing a low block. There are some managers who clearly do just let us have the ball knowing that we struggle to do anything with it sometimes. To me there is a difference between playing a low block and letting the other team have the ball in non threatening areas.
Yesterday we had 2 shots on target. Other games have been similar.
On the defensive side we have made costly errors. To me they are not freak accidents though. We play these very tight triangles in our own box to try and create this semi-counter by taking 3 opponents out of the game. KMcK has always employed this.
The cost of that is pretty frequent error and conceding what appear like silly goals. They are predictable errors. However, as we aren't scoring many goals they stand out as particularly stupid. | |
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| Mckenna said on 13:56 - Dec 3 with 848 views | cressi |
| Mckenna said on 11:26 - Dec 3 by TractorWood |
I think that represents a good portion of games this season but not all by some distance. For example Blackburn played some good stuff and were unlucky not to win. Oxford were better than us. Wrexham did try and create and did look to win the the game until the 75th minute. Charlton humiliated us. Birmingham and Preston were pretty excellent against us and didn't just deploy cynical low block.
I do also think some people interpret other teams letting us have the ball as playing a low block. There are some managers who clearly do just let us have the ball knowing that we struggle to do anything with it sometimes. To me there is a difference between playing a low block and letting the other team have the ball in non threatening areas.
Yesterday we had 2 shots on target. Other games have been similar.
On the defensive side we have made costly errors. To me they are not freak accidents though. We play these very tight triangles in our own box to try and create this semi-counter by taking 3 opponents out of the game. KMcK has always employed this.
The cost of that is pretty frequent error and conceding what appear like silly goals. They are predictable errors. However, as we aren't scoring many goals they stand out as particularly stupid. |
Ten passes and we ain't got to the halfway line | | | |
| Mckenna said on 18:36 - Dec 3 with 697 views | eirannach_gorm |
| Mckenna said on 10:22 - Dec 3 by algy |
Speed, fast or slow, of play is part of the system. |
For walking football? Clearly our lack of pace ( and power ) killed us in the Premiership. If we had a bit of pace we would be in the automatic promotion spots in what is currently a poor Championship league. | | | |
| Mckenna said on 18:53 - Dec 3 with 645 views | badadski |
| Mckenna said on 18:36 - Dec 3 by eirannach_gorm |
For walking football? Clearly our lack of pace ( and power ) killed us in the Premiership. If we had a bit of pace we would be in the automatic promotion spots in what is currently a poor Championship league. |
I don’t want McKenna to go but he has issues which I am sure we know. I keep hearing the low block mentioned but the last few teams have not played low block against us at all and have been pretty risky and fluid in their approach against us. Both Oxford and Blackburn were playing pretty freely and actually pressing us very aggressively.
With our newish team what used to be our strength is actually now our weakness. We do not pressure teams as a team and are akin to England of old where one of 2 players pressed but the others didn’t and you can see that happen with us. Either we don’t have the players physical enough, quick enough or fit enough either way our old strength of pressing from the front isn’t very effective.
Our other strength of playing out from the back is now also a weakness due to personnel. We don’t have a Morsey to drive through the middle, and we don’t have the awareness or pace of players familiar with one another akin to the Chaplin, broadhead, Omari, Sarmiento and burns that was so
devastating in full flow.
This leaves McKenna with a massive quandary as it’s the way he knows but this league is a lot tougher than he expected and when others teams not only give you zero respect but actually treat the game as a cup final due to our previous achievements. Too win we will have to either adapt or change our style as currently it’s isn’t effective as we have no found out and is actually creating more dangerous moments that goal scoring opportunities | | | |
| Mckenna said on 19:09 - Dec 3 with 598 views | Radlett_blue |
| Mckenna said on 18:53 - Dec 3 by badadski |
I don’t want McKenna to go but he has issues which I am sure we know. I keep hearing the low block mentioned but the last few teams have not played low block against us at all and have been pretty risky and fluid in their approach against us. Both Oxford and Blackburn were playing pretty freely and actually pressing us very aggressively.
With our newish team what used to be our strength is actually now our weakness. We do not pressure teams as a team and are akin to England of old where one of 2 players pressed but the others didn’t and you can see that happen with us. Either we don’t have the players physical enough, quick enough or fit enough either way our old strength of pressing from the front isn’t very effective.
Our other strength of playing out from the back is now also a weakness due to personnel. We don’t have a Morsey to drive through the middle, and we don’t have the awareness or pace of players familiar with one another akin to the Chaplin, broadhead, Omari, Sarmiento and burns that was so
devastating in full flow.
This leaves McKenna with a massive quandary as it’s the way he knows but this league is a lot tougher than he expected and when others teams not only give you zero respect but actually treat the game as a cup final due to our previous achievements. Too win we will have to either adapt or change our style as currently it’s isn’t effective as we have no found out and is actually creating more dangerous moments that goal scoring opportunities |
McKenna has had the resources to assemble probably the most expensive squad in this league & if he can't get it to perform better, he shouldn't be here.
Yes, opposition teams are quick to get back against us, but this is a problem facing any team with a better squad. |  |
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| Mckenna said on 21:41 - Dec 3 with 435 views | LeoMuff |
| Mckenna said on 11:26 - Dec 3 by TractorWood |
I think that represents a good portion of games this season but not all by some distance. For example Blackburn played some good stuff and were unlucky not to win. Oxford were better than us. Wrexham did try and create and did look to win the the game until the 75th minute. Charlton humiliated us. Birmingham and Preston were pretty excellent against us and didn't just deploy cynical low block.
I do also think some people interpret other teams letting us have the ball as playing a low block. There are some managers who clearly do just let us have the ball knowing that we struggle to do anything with it sometimes. To me there is a difference between playing a low block and letting the other team have the ball in non threatening areas.
Yesterday we had 2 shots on target. Other games have been similar.
On the defensive side we have made costly errors. To me they are not freak accidents though. We play these very tight triangles in our own box to try and create this semi-counter by taking 3 opponents out of the game. KMcK has always employed this.
The cost of that is pretty frequent error and conceding what appear like silly goals. They are predictable errors. However, as we aren't scoring many goals they stand out as particularly stupid. |
Oxford were not better than us we gift wrapped 2 goals for themWrexham made absolutely no attempt to win that game xg was 0.04.preston were awful they had 28% possession. |  |
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| Mckenna said on 05:47 - Dec 4 with 229 views | Benters |
Maybe just maybe like some of the fans thinking we are better than we actually are,maybe KM thinks the same and the money he has spent we maybe should be.
That’s a lot of maybes. |  |
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| Mckenna said on 06:37 - Dec 4 with 170 views | PioneerBlue |
If you were facing a low block how would you coach for it? Likely lots of time in shape with the ball behind a wall of people, hold it at the back hope the midfield and defence comes out and in the final third try to move it horizontally to create the gaps. There are a couple of other things where you are reliant on talent, transition and lateral speed to get behind (think Wes burns) none of our RW players are doing this. Stardust to dribble through lines, very few of our players help break lines in the final third, exception probably Leif Clarke Philogene but because we dont have the same on thr other side or a threat from the R10 its too easy to defend. At some stage on the pitch its players that have to take responsibility for having the purpose and desire to put the ball in the net. Similar at the other end, taking responsibility for marking players at set pieces and knowing when not to overcommit on an attack.
Summary
Id say this is players not coaching but people might see or know differently.
Azon, McAteer, Akpom, Nunez, SS, even Egeli (no real surprise), none have consistently performed at the level we need and certainly have not contributed the assists or goals wed expect at this stage. [Post edited 4 Dec 6:40]
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