| Morsy benched 18:40 - Jan 20 with 6594 views | Zx1988 |
PLEASE let's not applaud him on to the pitch if/when he gets subbed on. |  |
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| Morsy benched on 09:25 - Jan 22 with 349 views | Ryorry |
| Morsy benched on 09:19 - Jan 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Well- he actively declined to wear the stuff in support of LGBTQ, which is a statement in itself. |
And as pointed out even by p7 on that thread, there were several possible reasons why he didn’t, none of them down to him actually being a “homophobe”. |  |
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| Morsy benched on 09:28 - Jan 22 with 354 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Morsy benched on 09:25 - Jan 22 by Ryorry |
And as pointed out even by p7 on that thread, there were several possible reasons why he didn’t, none of them down to him actually being a “homophobe”. |
It is still a statement one is choosing to make.
And it is not unreasonable to draw logical reasonable inferences from that.
Even if, for instance, it is to avoid criticism within his community or grief for family members over it, it is a choice not to stand up for something which is clearly and objectively right. | |
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| Morsy benched on 09:42 - Jan 22 with 294 views | Ryorry |
| Morsy benched on 09:28 - Jan 22 by redrickstuhaart |
It is still a statement one is choosing to make.
And it is not unreasonable to draw logical reasonable inferences from that.
Even if, for instance, it is to avoid criticism within his community or grief for family members over it, it is a choice not to stand up for something which is clearly and objectively right. |
As I pointed out on there in a post on p6 (? iirc), children being indoctrinated/brainwashed from birth into a religion followed by their parents/guardians/community isn’t much of a “choice” for them. Just one of the reasons I’m opposed to all organised religions.
The point was also made by someone that the initiative was a Stonewall one, and that they had a much wider umbrella of aims that not everyone could agree with, and that it might have been different if the PL/EFL had just created a “rainbow laces day” themselves to show support. | |
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| Morsy benched on 09:45 - Jan 22 with 311 views | baxterbasics |
| Morsy benched on 09:17 - Jan 22 by redrickstuhaart |
Massive straw man. I haven't seen anyone reducing Morsy; personality to one thing in the way you suggest.
They have, quite reasonably, expressed discomfort at his stance on the rainbow armband stuff. |
Libero pretty much did though. |  |
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| Morsy benched on 09:47 - Jan 22 with 307 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Morsy benched on 09:42 - Jan 22 by Ryorry |
As I pointed out on there in a post on p6 (? iirc), children being indoctrinated/brainwashed from birth into a religion followed by their parents/guardians/community isn’t much of a “choice” for them. Just one of the reasons I’m opposed to all organised religions.
The point was also made by someone that the initiative was a Stonewall one, and that they had a much wider umbrella of aims that not everyone could agree with, and that it might have been different if the PL/EFL had just created a “rainbow laces day” themselves to show support. |
We can all make choices to be better informed and to review our positions.
Here's the simple thing: Its a statement when everyone else is doing it. If you have good reasons for that statement, you can say so and explain them. If you don't, its not unreasonable for people to reach the obvious conclusion.
Which in this instance, is that it was at odds with religous beliefs. And those religous beliefs, like so many, have elements which are problematic. | |
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| Morsy benched on 09:55 - Jan 22 with 255 views | Ryorry |
| Morsy benched on 09:47 - Jan 22 by redrickstuhaart |
We can all make choices to be better informed and to review our positions.
Here's the simple thing: Its a statement when everyone else is doing it. If you have good reasons for that statement, you can say so and explain them. If you don't, its not unreasonable for people to reach the obvious conclusion.
Which in this instance, is that it was at odds with religous beliefs. And those religous beliefs, like so many, have elements which are problematic. |
I agree with both your opening paragraph and
“And those religous beliefs, like so many, have elements which are problematic.”
As SM may also have done privately. The thing is that It’s really not “simple”, and people shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions that are unevidenced & *not* “obvious”. [Post edited 22 Jan 10:00]
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| Morsy benched on 10:01 - Jan 22 with 262 views | Libero |
| Morsy benched on 09:45 - Jan 22 by baxterbasics |
Libero pretty much did though. |
Weird read- Morsy is clearly a lot of things to a lot of different people- in the context of what matters to this website, he’s the former captain of our club over a period of fabulous success.
To me as an individual, he is of course that- but he’s also an individual who as actively chosen to not support the LGBTQ community and used religion as a shield to justify his discrimination.
As I’ve said in this thread and others, it’s his perogotive to apply the rules of his religion how he sees fit, previously he’s worn shirts with betting sponsors on, which shows his flexibility and that within his own personal version of his religion, that was acceptable- he actively made that choice-
just as he actively made the choice to reject the rainbow armband campaign to support and raise the visibility of LGBTQ people on behalf of Ipswich Town Football Club.
In making that active move to discriminate, he may well be fulfilling his own personal version of his religion, but as he’s evidenced, that personal religious interpretation is flexible, which means he is actively making the choice to discriminate against LGBTQ people, which in my personal view, makes him a homophobe.
There’s also a number of questionable historic retweets/likes/etc on Twitter too, that I saw, which support my personal view that Morsy is homophobic.
It is his perogotive and right to make the choices he wants, but that doesn’t mean they’re free of criticism- just as clearly, my choice to term him a homophobe isn’t free of criticism.
I get it, most of you see nothing wrong with his choice- that’s fine, I respect your opinions.
I do think it’s funny to see so many people twisted up, just because I have a differing view on this- a view that I’ve shared my rationale for a few times. You can agree or disagree, it doesn’t really matter and I’m certainly not going to argue with people about it.
We just hold different opinions. [Post edited 22 Jan 10:20]
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| Morsy benched on 10:11 - Jan 22 with 203 views | Ryorry |
| Morsy benched on 10:01 - Jan 22 by Libero |
Weird read- Morsy is clearly a lot of things to a lot of different people- in the context of what matters to this website, he’s the former captain of our club over a period of fabulous success.
To me as an individual, he is of course that- but he’s also an individual who as actively chosen to not support the LGBTQ community and used religion as a shield to justify his discrimination.
As I’ve said in this thread and others, it’s his perogotive to apply the rules of his religion how he sees fit, previously he’s worn shirts with betting sponsors on, which shows his flexibility and that within his own personal version of his religion, that was acceptable- he actively made that choice-
just as he actively made the choice to reject the rainbow armband campaign to support and raise the visibility of LGBTQ people on behalf of Ipswich Town Football Club.
In making that active move to discriminate, he may well be fulfilling his own personal version of his religion, but as he’s evidenced, that personal religious interpretation is flexible, which means he is actively making the choice to discriminate against LGBTQ people, which in my personal view, makes him a homophobe.
There’s also a number of questionable historic retweets/likes/etc on Twitter too, that I saw, which support my personal view that Morsy is homophobic.
It is his perogotive and right to make the choices he wants, but that doesn’t mean they’re free of criticism- just as clearly, my choice to term him a homophobe isn’t free of criticism.
I get it, most of you see nothing wrong with his choice- that’s fine, I respect your opinions.
I do think it’s funny to see so many people twisted up, just because I have a differing view on this- a view that I’ve shared my rationale for a few times. You can agree or disagree, it doesn’t really matter and I’m certainly not going to argue with people about it.
We just hold different opinions. [Post edited 22 Jan 10:20]
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Signing for a club which might then later change its sponsorship/shirt logos isn’t a player’s choice.
Even if a betting company were the sponsor at the time of signing, if the player wasn’t being offered any other contract with alternative clubs, what are they supposed to do - jack in their career? | |
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| Morsy benched on 10:39 - Jan 22 with 161 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Morsy benched on 09:55 - Jan 22 by Ryorry |
I agree with both your opening paragraph and
“And those religous beliefs, like so many, have elements which are problematic.”
As SM may also have done privately. The thing is that It’s really not “simple”, and people shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions that are unevidenced & *not* “obvious”. [Post edited 22 Jan 10:00]
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They are though.
They are an absolutely reasonable inference, especially when someone chooses to do something different, and doesnt say why. | |
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| Morsy benched on 11:40 - Jan 22 with 109 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Morsy benched on 09:09 - Jan 22 by baxterbasics |
Maybe you are right about him, maybe you are not.
Either way I find it strange how quick we often are to just reduce someone's entire personality to one thing, attitude or event. Morsy? Homophobe. JK Rowling? Transphobe. The Royal Family? Nonce protectors. Someone says something in support of Israel? Genocide enabler. As if nothing any of these people do or achieve outside of that matters anymore.
I don't know what Sam's true feelings about the LGBT folks are. I don't need to. I can still appreciate and thank him for his contribution to our club. He probably would not appreciate my take on Israel/Palestine, but hopefully he would still respect me as a fan who paid to watch him play a few times.
I swear 90% of the conflict and abuse we see online would stop if people could just get over having to categorise everyone as 'team bad guy' or 'team good guy' on such limited data. [Post edited 22 Jan 9:43]
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Great post that.
Have an arrow of satisfaction |  |
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| Morsy benched on 11:53 - Jan 22 with 65 views | hype313 |
| Morsy benched on 10:11 - Jan 22 by Ryorry |
Signing for a club which might then later change its sponsorship/shirt logos isn’t a player’s choice.
Even if a betting company were the sponsor at the time of signing, if the player wasn’t being offered any other contract with alternative clubs, what are they supposed to do - jack in their career? |
I think what Libbers is saying is he is choosing his least palatable poison (Betting) from his faith where he has a more laissez faire attitude to it to suit his needs, LGBTQ he can use his religion as a shield, knowing that it won't affect his contract or playing time if he refuses to take part.
I think, I can only glean from this thread, is what Libbers is saying is he's being a touch hypocritical, which, taken at face value from the outside, isn't a huge reach. |  |
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