| Observations on our system and setup 17:47 - Mar 21 with 2013 views | blueM3 |
This may end up long winded or maybe short. Il see how I can articulate it!
Seen a few comments here and there that dig McKenna out occasionally with regards to systems etc. my personal thought is he sees slightly one dimensional. I’m not sure since he’s come in he’s ever changed from the 4-2-3-1 he sets out with. Obviously the system tries to utilise a left mid rolling into the 10 to allow Davis forward. But the fundamental lineup is the same structure. I may remember 1 game a while back where 2 strikers were briefly on together, but literally only the once.
There are times when change is needed. Every substitution is usually a ‘like for like’. It may involve someone swapping sides à la Clarke this afternoon. But no changes ever change the setup or system.
Is this a flaw in mckennas tactical nous? It’s one thing, especially at home, to stamp our mark on a game and let other teams react to our system. But there are also times where things don’t work. Certain systems don’t work against others. Especially if the opposition has done their homework.
There has to be a time to look at setting up differently and taking teams by surprise. 3 at the back with wing backs? 2 up top? There are pluses and minuses to everything. But we have seriously lost our element of surprise. Why not roll out against Birmingham with o Shea Kipre and greaves at the back and let Davis and Burns have the freedom of the wings for example.
Chasing a win today could have meant having 2 out and out strikers. Millwall changed their setup and completely confused us. Hence reverting to type and trying the ball out from the back all second half and getting pressured into mistakes. Ideal time to change things to counter that and make them rethink.
Taylor coming on for Neil was a good switch. BUT…. We lost our outball in the middle of the park for some reason. Both Azor and Taylor were dropping deep for goal kicks, our 10 was wide and it left a 20-30 yard radius in the middle of the park. Hirst wasn’t at the races enough to make anything from the floated balls into him from Walton’s goal kicks that didn’t go short. We let ourselves be penned in at the back and we got flustered. The only surprise was we didn’t lose a second goal.
I know this is seemingly a long ramble but there were many obvious flaws to what we did in the second half. We didn’t allow ourselves to attack with speed and fluidity like the first half. And that was our undoing. I have the utmost respect for what McKenna has achieved here and would love him to make a whole dynasty of success here. Fingers crossed on that one. He needs to be able to change things at the drop of a hat when it’s backs to the wall though. Having a different systems for different scenarios is vital for any manager wanting a long term success sheet.
Is it stubbornness? Is it naivety? I suggest stubbornness to a slight degree. I can’t imagine in the youth teams he’s worked through previously he’s only ever turned out a side in one system. I may be wrong and he may have done just that and had success. But when you’re one of the most targeted sides in the league, and not the surprise package anymore, you need to change things up.
This is in no way digging the man out, merely my observations. The frustration of not getting g the 3 points today makes it easier to point the finger at the flaws I personally see. And just maybe, changing it up may have put the wind up us, like Alex Neil did with his half time changes to Millwall. |  | | |  |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:11 - Mar 21 with 1513 views | gtsb1966 |
I recorded the game on SKY to play back . The commentator said will KM be here next season even if we go up. Just my opinion but i honestly believe his suitors are a lot less than they were a year ago. The 'one dimensional' comment is a fair comment. |  | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:14 - Mar 21 with 1496 views | jasondozzell |
Personally think that's a complete misreading based on the erroneous assumption that 'formations' mean much any more. It's outdated to think that's 'how managers set up'. If you listen to early interviews with KM, he talks about how he doesn't believe in 'formations'. It's fluid and it's more about areas and responsibilities and how players connect.
KM is not one dimensional at all. But he believes in playing good football and connecting through the pitch at speed and finding spare man to allow that. Those are solid principles and I'm glad he sticks to them. |  | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:22 - Mar 21 with 1441 views | surreyblue |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:14 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Personally think that's a complete misreading based on the erroneous assumption that 'formations' mean much any more. It's outdated to think that's 'how managers set up'. If you listen to early interviews with KM, he talks about how he doesn't believe in 'formations'. It's fluid and it's more about areas and responsibilities and how players connect.
KM is not one dimensional at all. But he believes in playing good football and connecting through the pitch at speed and finding spare man to allow that. Those are solid principles and I'm glad he sticks to them. |
I do wonder whether that philosophy needs some tweaking in order to better support the players when things aren't going as well as they should. I wonder if when things are tough, players are reverting back to "the formation" as that is what they know and feel comfortable with, even if it's not the philosophy that McKenna wants them to approach the game with.
In 22-24, the team got through hard times through relentless self-belief, which is difficult to manufacture. I wonder if there is a gap there where the players need something more concrete to cling to during adverse times that works better than "belief in the process" with this group of players? | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:34 - Mar 21 with 1389 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:22 - Mar 21 by surreyblue |
I do wonder whether that philosophy needs some tweaking in order to better support the players when things aren't going as well as they should. I wonder if when things are tough, players are reverting back to "the formation" as that is what they know and feel comfortable with, even if it's not the philosophy that McKenna wants them to approach the game with.
In 22-24, the team got through hard times through relentless self-belief, which is difficult to manufacture. I wonder if there is a gap there where the players need something more concrete to cling to during adverse times that works better than "belief in the process" with this group of players? |
Think it does KM a disservice to suggest that if he just gave them a formation everything would be alright.
We drew against a good side right at the top. Don't think it is more complicated than that.
KM's philosophy has so far delivered back to back promotions, some impressive results in the PL and now another strong promotion challenge.
If it ain't broke... | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:42 - Mar 21 with 1339 views | gtsb1966 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:34 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Think it does KM a disservice to suggest that if he just gave them a formation everything would be alright.
We drew against a good side right at the top. Don't think it is more complicated than that.
KM's philosophy has so far delivered back to back promotions, some impressive results in the PL and now another strong promotion challenge.
If it ain't broke... |
Mrs McKenna, please dont mention the Premier league. For the money spent it was a bit of a mess. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:44 - Mar 21 with 1325 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
I genuinely don’t get this view that KmK is rigid, or the system is fundamentally flawed. Sure, we don’t always get the result we probably deserved, but much of that is down to fine margins.
The stats show that we’re getting in the right positions, and creating a lot. There were 9 blocked shots today, very much like other games recently, and if you examine these closely you can see many of those could have resulted in a goal had it not been for some great defence. We could, and probably should have been 3 up at half time.
Add to that the 44 touches in the box.
KmK believes in a philosophy rather than any form of rigid system, and yes, he is stubborn in his belief in that philosophy. But the stats suggest that it’s delivering on the chances created, but the fine margins have often been against us. For the avoidance of doubt, before anyone hollers, ‘but we’re not down as having many shots on target’, blocked shots do not count as on target - you have to delve deeper into the available stats to know if a blocked shot was good/would have been on target. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:44 - Mar 21 with 1321 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:42 - Mar 21 by gtsb1966 |
Mrs McKenna, please dont mention the Premier league. For the money spent it was a bit of a mess. |
Our squad value was comfortably the lowest in the league.
I fail to understand what people expected. We gave it a right go and had some very good games.
Liverpool at home, Villa at home, United at home, Chelsea at home.
Nothing to be ashamed of when we were at Morecambe 3 years before. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:48 - Mar 21 with 1292 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:44 - Mar 21 by SuffolkPunchFC |
I genuinely don’t get this view that KmK is rigid, or the system is fundamentally flawed. Sure, we don’t always get the result we probably deserved, but much of that is down to fine margins.
The stats show that we’re getting in the right positions, and creating a lot. There were 9 blocked shots today, very much like other games recently, and if you examine these closely you can see many of those could have resulted in a goal had it not been for some great defence. We could, and probably should have been 3 up at half time.
Add to that the 44 touches in the box.
KmK believes in a philosophy rather than any form of rigid system, and yes, he is stubborn in his belief in that philosophy. But the stats suggest that it’s delivering on the chances created, but the fine margins have often been against us. For the avoidance of doubt, before anyone hollers, ‘but we’re not down as having many shots on target’, blocked shots do not count as on target - you have to delve deeper into the available stats to know if a blocked shot was good/would have been on target. |
Really well put.
Still think there's this sense of entitlement and frustration when we don't win every game 3-0.
People coming out saying it was 'very poor'. Nope. Millwall played well second half. Draw probably right result. | | | |
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| Observations on our system and setup on 18:54 - Mar 21 with 1277 views | bsw72 |
There’s a lot to unpack here, and the frustration after today is kind of understandable, but I think there are some factual inaccuracies worth addressing before the tactical argument can really stand up.
The claim that McKenna has never deviated from a 4-2-3-1 simply isn’t accurate. We’ve seen variations across his time here that go well beyond cosmetic tinkering. The shape has shifted between a 4-3-3, a 4-2-3-1, and what functions in practice as a 4-4-2 depending on personnel and the phase of play. That’s actually the core point the post misses: formations are not rigid structures, they’re starting frameworks that flex constantly based on who’s on the pitch, the opposition’s shape, and the game state.
The observation about substitutions being like-for-like is also a simplification. Personnel changes alter the balance of a system significantly even when the shape appears unchanged on paper. Bringing Taylor on for Neil changes the pressing triggers, the passing angles, and the defensive responsibilities of everyone around him. That may not be the dramatic 3-5-2 rollout the post is calling for, but it is tactical adjustment.
Where the post does have genuine merit is in the second half against Millwall specifically. The loss of our central presence and the way we were pinned back was real and visible. But attributing that to McKenna’s supposed inflexibility rather than to execution, fatigue, or the specific problems Millwall posed is a stretch. The argument conflates a difficult afternoon with a structural flaw in his entire managerial approach, which is a significant leap.
McKenna has built something remarkable here. Questioning his in-game management on a bad day is fair enough. Characterising him as a one-system ideologue who has never adapted doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. |  | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:00 - Mar 21 with 1226 views | gtsb1966 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:44 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Our squad value was comfortably the lowest in the league.
I fail to understand what people expected. We gave it a right go and had some very good games.
Liverpool at home, Villa at home, United at home, Chelsea at home.
Nothing to be ashamed of when we were at Morecambe 3 years before. |
Sunderland have given it a right go. Leeds are giving it a go. Our transfer policy for the Premier was poor. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:05 - Mar 21 with 1193 views | bsw72 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:48 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Really well put.
Still think there's this sense of entitlement and frustration when we don't win every game 3-0.
People coming out saying it was 'very poor'. Nope. Millwall played well second half. Draw probably right result. |
People assume that because we have assembled a squad at high cost and very publicly that winning the league was going to be a formality and therefore anytime we are slightly off and fail to win a match it’s a massive failure.
It seems to be the modern supporter mindset where money spent equates to how quickly success should come. Buying players for a lot of money brings in skill and depth of squad, but building a team takes more skill and I actually think that we have overachieved considering the volume of change in the squad and the mental and physical battering we took last season.
That’s just my view though, having lived through the Robson, Lyall, Burley years which saw teams come and then go. [Post edited 21 Mar 19:38]
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| Observations on our system and setup on 19:06 - Mar 21 with 1174 views | blueoutlook |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:34 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Think it does KM a disservice to suggest that if he just gave them a formation everything would be alright.
We drew against a good side right at the top. Don't think it is more complicated than that.
KM's philosophy has so far delivered back to back promotions, some impressive results in the PL and now another strong promotion challenge.
If it ain't broke... |
Hi Mark, sorry but the PL season was a joke. And he is one dimensional. |  | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:12 - Mar 21 with 1142 views | gtsb1966 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:44 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Our squad value was comfortably the lowest in the league.
I fail to understand what people expected. We gave it a right go and had some very good games.
Liverpool at home, Villa at home, United at home, Chelsea at home.
Nothing to be ashamed of when we were at Morecambe 3 years before. |
P.s...if our squad value was the lowest in the Premier league and we went down then by your reckoning by having the most valuable squad in the championship we should should be champions yes? | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:14 - Mar 21 with 1134 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:06 - Mar 21 by blueoutlook |
Hi Mark, sorry but the PL season was a joke. And he is one dimensional. |
'The PL season was a joke' - come on.
If you think he's one dimensional because he doesn't 'play two up top and hoof it' then it doesn't suggest much football intelligence on your part. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:16 - Mar 21 with 1119 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:12 - Mar 21 by gtsb1966 |
P.s...if our squad value was the lowest in the Premier league and we went down then by your reckoning by having the most valuable squad in the championship we should should be champions yes? |
This just sounds ludicrous. It's not the gotcha you think it is.
What were your expectations for this season? | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:18 - Mar 21 with 1105 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:05 - Mar 21 by bsw72 |
People assume that because we have assembled a squad at high cost and very publicly that winning the league was going to be a formality and therefore anytime we are slightly off and fail to win a match it’s a massive failure.
It seems to be the modern supporter mindset where money spent equates to how quickly success should come. Buying players for a lot of money brings in skill and depth of squad, but building a team takes more skill and I actually think that we have overachieved considering the volume of change in the squad and the mental and physical battering we took last season.
That’s just my view though, having lived through the Robson, Lyall, Burley years which saw teams come and then go. [Post edited 21 Mar 19:38]
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Completely agree.
Sadly we now must suffer the modern fan, raised on a diet of sky sports news hyperbole, loadsamoney worship, no idea of what support means.
Giant babies demanding football gives them 3-0 wins every week so they can put it on social media. [Post edited 21 Mar 19:48]
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| Observations on our system and setup on 19:20 - Mar 21 with 1093 views | gtsb1966 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:16 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
This just sounds ludicrous. It's not the gotcha you think it is.
What were your expectations for this season? |
To win the league with this squad. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:22 - Mar 21 with 1086 views | homer_123 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:06 - Mar 21 by blueoutlook |
Hi Mark, sorry but the PL season was a joke. And he is one dimensional. |
How do you explain during KMs tenure the following …
We've played 3 at the back with Davis bombing forward
Two at the back with Davis and Clarke getting forward
We've played 5 at the back and Sat looking to play on the break
We've played out from the back looking to break the lines
We've hit channels directly
We've played long raking diagonal balls
We've played high tempo one touch foitball
We've played patient build up play
Davis playing as an inside forward
Davis playing as and outside winger
Greaves ending up in the oppo box
O'Shea driving forward and dribbling with the ball
Morsy and Luongo playing full backs covering runs
How is this one dimensional? |  |
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| Observations on our system and setup on 19:23 - Mar 21 with 1069 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:20 - Mar 21 by gtsb1966 |
To win the league with this squad. |
I expected us to be up there and challenge for promotion. Win the league or else is nuts.
Relegation is bloody hard on any club. KM has built another team under huge pressure. | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:27 - Mar 21 with 1041 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:22 - Mar 21 by homer_123 |
How do you explain during KMs tenure the following …
We've played 3 at the back with Davis bombing forward
Two at the back with Davis and Clarke getting forward
We've played 5 at the back and Sat looking to play on the break
We've played out from the back looking to break the lines
We've hit channels directly
We've played long raking diagonal balls
We've played high tempo one touch foitball
We've played patient build up play
Davis playing as an inside forward
Davis playing as and outside winger
Greaves ending up in the oppo box
O'Shea driving forward and dribbling with the ball
Morsy and Luongo playing full backs covering runs
How is this one dimensional? |
People can never answer this.
They just love bashing KM with a few phrases that they have heard without ever being able to explain it. Severe lack of football knowledge. |  |
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| Observations on our system and setup on 19:28 - Mar 21 with 1038 views | gtsb1966 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:23 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
I expected us to be up there and challenge for promotion. Win the league or else is nuts.
Relegation is bloody hard on any club. KM has built another team under huge pressure. |
What pressure!!! The biggest budget in the league and on the highest wages by a long way. Why is winning the league or comfortably top 2 nuts? | | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:32 - Mar 21 with 1007 views | mrfixit426 |
| Observations on our system and setup on 18:54 - Mar 21 by bsw72 |
There’s a lot to unpack here, and the frustration after today is kind of understandable, but I think there are some factual inaccuracies worth addressing before the tactical argument can really stand up.
The claim that McKenna has never deviated from a 4-2-3-1 simply isn’t accurate. We’ve seen variations across his time here that go well beyond cosmetic tinkering. The shape has shifted between a 4-3-3, a 4-2-3-1, and what functions in practice as a 4-4-2 depending on personnel and the phase of play. That’s actually the core point the post misses: formations are not rigid structures, they’re starting frameworks that flex constantly based on who’s on the pitch, the opposition’s shape, and the game state.
The observation about substitutions being like-for-like is also a simplification. Personnel changes alter the balance of a system significantly even when the shape appears unchanged on paper. Bringing Taylor on for Neil changes the pressing triggers, the passing angles, and the defensive responsibilities of everyone around him. That may not be the dramatic 3-5-2 rollout the post is calling for, but it is tactical adjustment.
Where the post does have genuine merit is in the second half against Millwall specifically. The loss of our central presence and the way we were pinned back was real and visible. But attributing that to McKenna’s supposed inflexibility rather than to execution, fatigue, or the specific problems Millwall posed is a stretch. The argument conflates a difficult afternoon with a structural flaw in his entire managerial approach, which is a significant leap.
McKenna has built something remarkable here. Questioning his in-game management on a bad day is fair enough. Characterising him as a one-system ideologue who has never adapted doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. |
Yeah but no plan B. Or something like that. The football illiterates always out themselves when there's a bit of adversity. I think there's an irony there.
Alex Neil rolled the dice and got lucky. It could have easily been a very different story if some of our players had made better decisions in the final third. |  | | |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:39 - Mar 21 with 945 views | TheBlueGnu |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:18 - Mar 21 by jasondozzell |
Completely agree.
Sadly we now must suffer the modern fan, raised on a diet of sky sports news hyperbole, loadsamoney worship, no idea of what support means.
Giant babies demanding football gives them 3-0 wins every week so they can put it on social media. [Post edited 21 Mar 19:48]
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Well said, totally agree with you. | |
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| Observations on our system and setup on 19:41 - Mar 21 with 946 views | RetroBlue |
OP: ive postulated the same sentiments for the last 2 seasons.... he maybe a good coach ( an exceptional coach), but a manager? He's largely inexperienced in my view....he doesn't try create a system that gets the best out of his players. Instead he tries to get players to adapt / mold to his system. If they cant do it or wont do it they're moved on, ot simply dont play, and so the club moves on, to the next players ....55 players have come in to this Club over recent times and at great expense yet we still do not look cohesive... |  |
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| Observations on our system and setup on 19:46 - Mar 21 with 904 views | jasondozzell |
| Observations on our system and setup on 19:28 - Mar 21 by gtsb1966 |
What pressure!!! The biggest budget in the league and on the highest wages by a long way. Why is winning the league or comfortably top 2 nuts? |
Relegation means huge churn. You've then got task of building championship winning team with half an eye on premier League recruitment. Even more turnover than expected. Players arrived late. Signings made with eye on future as well as now. Entitled supporters expected easy romp to title.
Pressure. He's dealt with it well.
The goal was promotion. Still in the driving seat. [Post edited 21 Mar 19:50]
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