| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 09:30 - Mar 24 with 765 views | Blueschev |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 18:24 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Before I go on, I think the ambulance attack is very likely an act of antisemitism, but it MIGHT not be in the example I give below, please let me know what you think.
Imagine you are a Palestinian in your late 50s living in London. Your family lives in the Old City in Jerusalem alongside Christians and Jews. Your family holds no hatred towards Jews and Christians but tensions certainly rose in your family's area of the city after Yitzhak Rabin's assassination by Yigal Amir in 1995. Sensing the tensions you left for England in the following few months.
You don't hate Jews, your mother has told you stories about how as a child her neighbourhood were all Palestinians, irrespective of their religion and they used to play together as young children. You do hate the genocidal government lead by Netanyahu however.
Your wife's family is from Gaza.
You have seen news reports of how hospitals in Gaza have been destroyed and ambulances targeted by the IDF under the pretext that they were transporting Hamas fighters. You know from a surviving relative that your wife's mother died because of enormous blood loss as result of not getting to hospital on time following an IDF bombing - there was no ambulance to get her to hospital soon enough.
You see in the news this weekend how the IDF have upped their operations in Lebanon creating the displacement of hundreds of thousands of innocent Lebanese and previously displaced Palestinians.
You bomb 4 ambulances in retribution for the actions of the Zionist regime that murdered your mother-in-law.
Can you justifiably argue that your actions were driven by anti-zionism and not antisemitism? |
No you couldn't justify it in any way, ever. Those are British ambulances, operated by a British Jewish charity. They're not in Israel, they're not operated by Israelis, they have nothing to do with Israel. They were attacked because they were Jewish, it's quite simple.
Most people don't tend to discuss the geo-political opinions of paramedics, as it's not relevant to their jobs.
I'm actually quite shocked that this is even a discussion. |  | |  |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 09:50 - Mar 24 with 712 views | Swansea_Blue |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
It’s going to be interesting to see how this one develops. Obviously early days and they’re looking at any clams.
“Sir Mark said police were "pursuing all lines of enquiry", including "an online claim of responsibility by an Islamist group who have claimed other attacks across Europe and have potential Iranian state links".” [Post edited 24 Mar 9:51]
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 10:50 - Mar 24 with 650 views | eireblue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 23:57 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
You write beautifully, but you talk a lot of nonsense.
Your core idea is that “Victims get to decide which words matter.”
Yes, victims’ experiences matter deeply. Their perception of harm, fear, or hatred is an essential part of understanding the impact of an offence. However, in British law, victims do not get to define legal categories or determine what is or isn’t a crime.
The rule of law requires objective, consistent, publicly known definitions.
Offences such as assault, hate crime, harassment, or terrorism have statutory definitions.
A victim’s perception can be evidence, but it is not determinative.
You say “People who attack others lose the right to nuance.”
Of course, violence is morally wrong, and perpetrators often try to justify it.
However the legal reality is that even violent offenders retain: the right to a defence, the right to explain their motives, the right to legal representation and the right to a fair trial.
British law does not strip someone of the right to nuance or explanation because they committed violence. In fact, their explanation may determine whether it was terrorism or ordinary criminality and whether it was aggravated by hate or revenge.
A fair legal system must hear the perpetrator’s account, even if morally distasteful.
There's so much more to add and you raise an important point in that it's important to listen to victims but your comments misrepresent how a fair legal system works.
You suggests victims define legal categories - they don't.
You imply perpetrators lose legal rights - they don't.
You conflate moral discourse with legal standards. |
Where did I say anything about legal categories?
As it happens…
The police and the CPS have agreed the following definition for identifying and flagging hate crimes:
"Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice…..”
A right to a defence, sure, they have a right to prove they didn’t do it, or had a good reason.
A good reason isn’t…..look I have a really nuanced position and a pseudo intellectual position on gay people, so I am allowed to bash them….
The law is clear on violence, it doesn’t include a clause for I hate these types of people for a really good reason
I didn’t conflate those things you did. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:03 - Mar 24 with 631 views | chantryblueboy |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 08:05 - Mar 24 by GlasgowBlue |
She’s begging me to call her an anti semite? That’s odd as I don’t engage with her and can’t see her posts. The only people I have referred to as anti semites on this thread are the low lifes on social media such as twitter who are pushing lies, conspiracies and Whatabouttery. |
Just goading you really. I’ve never interacted with her before and can’t say I am keen to do so again |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 15:21 - Mar 24 with 531 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:03 - Mar 24 by chantryblueboy |
Just goading you really. I’ve never interacted with her before and can’t say I am keen to do so again |
Him, not her. |  |
| FREE PALASTINE FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. FREE LEBANON FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. FREE IRAN FROM ZIONIST BOMBS. |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 08:33 - Mar 25 with 437 views | GlasgowBlue |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 10:30 - Mar 25 with 392 views | Steve_M |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 08:33 - Mar 25 by GlasgowBlue |
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I'll save a new thread but this is interesting as well as concerning. It does match the low-level Russian-funder terrorism across Europe too..
https://www.theguardian.com/wo |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 10:38 - Mar 25 with 374 views | Norfolk_north |
There is absolutely nothing wrong with opposing Israel's actions in the middle east, their foreign policy, their actions in Palestine, Lebanon, Iran and whatever their hold is over other governments such as the United States.
Many Jewish people are also against the actions of Israel and have been vocal and involved in protests against their actions.
To conflate all Jews with the actions of Israel is wrong and is antisemitic. These are ambulances organised by a local Jewish community that are used to help everyone of all religions and backgrounds in the local area.
From what I can see they have nothing to do with Israel and so is heavily suggesting an antisemitic attack.
By all means, criticise the country, it's leaders, it's government and it's actions but do not let it descend into antisemitic rubbish. | | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 19:33 - Mar 25 with 307 views | Swansea_Blue |
With Reform very much in our news, I think it’s important to continually highlight the disgusting people they are. A vote for Reform is a vote for antisemitism and other types of racism, homophobia and climate change denial.
“Reform UK drops Hampshire Mayor candidate after Jewish comments…Dr Parry described a Jewish community group as "Islamists on horseback" and "cosplayers" in the wake of the North London arson attack.”
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/ne | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:42 - Mar 25 with 258 views | DavoIPB |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 10:55 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Agreed. Understanding the motivation behind these attacks is the first step in dealing with the hatred which motivates people to commit such atrocities.
Simply being outraged and lashing out at "these animals" is not conducive to de-escalating tensions when the world is a tinder box right now. |
You have to go back a few thousand years to understand the hatred that motivates these attacks. Historical theological goes some way to it. Jewish people and Muslim people have fought each other since the beginning of islam. It's how islam spread. Before that Arab and Israelite people fought each other over small squabbles, land and the advancement of civilisations. It's only in the last one hundred years and only in the last thirty years that this fight has really come to the UK and then intensified. It's an age old fight that has no solution and no way of resolution. Both sides hate and both sides will not back down. There is one solution and that is to remove from the ul those that stir up this trouble. Those that hate western values and those that plan and plot these acts of violence. | | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 18:32 - Mar 27 with 129 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:34 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
Can you also run me through the part where those ambulances were to be replaced very shortly according to the website and now they will get the insurance money and public donations. That's a stroke of good fortune isn't it. Alls well that ends well |
https://www.gov.uk/government/
Well not such a stroke of luck for you mate as it’s coming out of your pocket (assuming you pay your tax here and not Moscow) | | | |
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