| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:40 - Mar 23 with 819 views | Tambu |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:27 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yeah fair enough but hardly surprising with the amount of muck GB has slung around this issue. |
I've never met a Semitic ambulance to be fair.
I am well aware of many ambulances that have been damaged by drunk/mentally altered people, and it never really makes headline news or public outrage. You are being manipulated. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 15:44 - Mar 23 with 783 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:02 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
Nah, it's not simplistic.
As a country we have allowed this sh1t for far too long and it has predictably got worse.
The same people, over and over again, would rather try and explain it away than condemn it. |
We should challenge everything. Why is it worse now? Why has it been allowed to get worse? Who is letting it get worse? When we know the answers to these questions, we can do something to make the world a less hate-filled place.
Yes, it worries me but I will never stop trying to understand why this type of thing is happening. Yesterday, another poster put quote marks around the words "just asking questions" - this is very dangerous as it suggests that the mere act of trying to understand something is frowned upon. That worries me too. I think it should worry everybody.
I find your language interesting. Do you think I'm trying to explain something AWAY? Do you think that when we see something so egregious as this, we need to express our condemnation of it? Is it not obvious? Having to go through the process of stating our emotions after every shocking event, is also very dangerous as it can lead to the accusation that a person is not emotionally affected when they don't condemn a specific atrocity that happens - then that leads to accusations of having hateful thoughts. I've been around too long, and know enough about psychology to see where this can take us and I don't want to live in a world like that. |  |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:58 - Mar 23 with 746 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:40 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
I've never met a Semitic ambulance to be fair.
I am well aware of many ambulances that have been damaged by drunk/mentally altered people, and it never really makes headline news or public outrage. You are being manipulated. |
That probably sounded funny in your head. Racist attacks on an ethno religious minority in this country s not a laughing matter. |  |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 16:10 - Mar 23 with 698 views | bartyg |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:40 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
I've never met a Semitic ambulance to be fair.
I am well aware of many ambulances that have been damaged by drunk/mentally altered people, and it never really makes headline news or public outrage. You are being manipulated. |
Even if it's not a hate crime, surely it's better to treat it as if it is until proven not, rather than vice versa? |  |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 16:21 - Mar 23 with 663 views | Ryorry |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:24 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.jpr.org.uk/insight
At the same time, at least 60% have donated to a charity supporting Israel since 7 October, 65% identify as Zionists, 71% feel a great deal of concern for the lives of Israelis, 77% feel attached to Israel, and 88% regard Israel as the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People. 52% think democracy in Israel is alive and well, 57% think the IDF has operated within the bounds of international law, and 90% think Iran represents a threat to Israel’s existence. Again, these are all majorities. |
Completely meaningless stats. How many people, individuals who don't belong to any organisation were consulted, over what period of time (report was compiled in October 2024 specifically in response to "how the October 7 attacks on Israel and the war in Gaza have impacted the British Jewish community one year on", in how many areas of the country?
And *obviously" a majority are going to feel attached to Israel as the ancestral homeland, and *of course* "71% feel a great deal of concern for the lives of Israelis" - many of us also feel a great deal of concern for ordinary Palestinians, Iranians, Cubans, Venezualians, Somalians & other oppressed people btw. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:23 - Mar 23 with 653 views | Herbivore |
This is thoroughly depressing. A targeted attack on Jewish owned and operated ambulances is clearly antisemitic. Attempts to understand it probably don't belong on a thread that should really be united in condemning this kind of action. |  |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 16:34 - Mar 23 with 607 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:37 - Mar 23 by Blueschev |
If that were true, and I very much doubt that it is, does that make British Jews / Jewish institutions fair game for reprisals against the actions of Israel? That appears to be what you're saying. |
Absolutely 100 per cent not. I don't think that anyone has suggested this isn't an act antisemitism but some have tried to understand the cause of people's mistakes. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:34 - Mar 23 with 605 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:02 - Mar 23 by Blueschev |
Netanyahu conflating the state of Israel with all Jews is just one of the many, many wrong things he says and does. It certainly doesn't make it true, nor does it provide context for an antisemitic attack on an ambulance service run by British Jews.
Would you reference the Taliban's treatment of women and girls when discussing an attack on a Mosque in order to provide nuance? |
Are you aware how complex it is to understand the complexities of other cultures. I've see people on this site describe Chinese, Russians and Iranians in ways I consider truly ignorant to the point of showing clear signs of racist hatred. Racism (and I include antisemitism) is rooted in ignorance. So we all need to educate ourselves and each other out of this hatred.
Where should we get the education we need from? It's a genuine question.
You say "Netanyahu conflating the state of Israel with all Jews is just one of the many, many wrong things he says and does. It certainly doesn't make it true..."
You're absolutely right, but how often have you heard people say "They want Israel wiped off the map"? That was a mistranslation by the way - it was discussed in a thread last night. But even if it wasn't a misquote would you be tolerant of anyone saying "Ahmedinejad saying Israel should be wiped off the map is just one of the many, many wrong things he says. It certainly doesn't make it true..."? I doubt it.
I've read a lot of books and listened to a lot of Jewish academics explaining terms like antisemitism, Zionism, Jewish Zionist, Christian Zionist, Christian fundamentalist, religious zealot, non-religious Jew, ethnic Jew, cultural Jew and they are not easy concepts for most people to absorb and understand easily. My reading has also given me a better understanding of the founding of Israel and Zionism than most.
I've struggled to understand (or TRIED to understand) why non-religious Jews can state "Israel was given to us by God", or why Jews who mock Jesus Christ have any truck with Christian Zionists, and vice versa.
It's trendy to say "words are important". Indeed they are, as few people want to offend others, and even less want to be branded hateful.
So what are the options for getting the words right? I think there are at least three:
a) Stay silent and say nothing for fear of saying the wrong thing. Well that's never served Jews well.
b) Show blanket support for Israel, all Jews, Jewishness in general and Zionists - well, I'm never going to be that uncritical of any group of people because it's an intellectually vacant thing to do.
c) Dedicate as much time as I can afford to understanding what these important and nuanced terms mean.
Like I said, racism is rooted in ignorance, so I think option c is the best approach for understanding all cultures. Don't you agree? | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 16:35 - Mar 23 with 604 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:47 - Mar 23 by eireblue |
Of course, blame the person of Jewish heritage that’s stands up for Jews, not the racists. |
What, his wife....my heritage is partly Jewish too! | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:36 - Mar 23 with 616 views | OldFart71 |
Isn't it and hasn't it always been the case that what goes on in the heads of leaders of countries and the outcome for their actions is ultimately blamed on all its people.
And although sometimes these leaders are removed by whatever means it's ultimately the people that suffer the most.
That doesn't in any way excuse the actions of those that decide forms of retribution against that country's people wherever they may live.
We are in dangerous times where many parts of the world are seeing conflicts brought about by leaders that don't very often think of the consequences.
America seems intent on starting things they never finish and ultimately the outcome is no better and reverts back to where it was or is even worse. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:42 - Mar 23 with 584 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:21 - Mar 23 by Steve_M |
Do you usually take Netanyahu at his word on anything or only when it confirms your prejudices?
I don't really know why you are using this level of sophistry to justify antisemitism. |
I don't take Netanyahu at his word ever. But I'm sure many others do - he wouldn't be the leader of a democratic country if no one took him at his word.
One man's sophistry is another man's intellectual rigor.
I have never justified antisemitism or any other form of racism. That you think I have shows a distinct lack of intellectual honesty, passive racism or ugly chauvinism. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:46 - Mar 23 with 567 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:30 - Mar 23 by eireblue |
So, if I was a Jewish person being attacked in the street, the important nuance I should have in my head is hmmmm, what did Netanyahu mean by his speech reported in the Washington post about his trip to Paris. |
I've always respected you as a calm, logical thinker but it seems your brain has gone walkabout with that comment. | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 16:56 - Mar 23 with 531 views | Cafe_Newman |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:37 - Mar 23 by Blueschev |
If that were true, and I very much doubt that it is, does that make British Jews / Jewish institutions fair game for reprisals against the actions of Israel? That appears to be what you're saying. |
"If that were true, and I very much doubt that it is, does that make British Jews / Jewish institutions fair game for reprisals against the actions of Israel?
Not at all. I haven't read anything in this thread to suggest anyone thinks that way. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:57 - Mar 23 with 544 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:36 - Mar 23 by OldFart71 |
Isn't it and hasn't it always been the case that what goes on in the heads of leaders of countries and the outcome for their actions is ultimately blamed on all its people.
And although sometimes these leaders are removed by whatever means it's ultimately the people that suffer the most.
That doesn't in any way excuse the actions of those that decide forms of retribution against that country's people wherever they may live.
We are in dangerous times where many parts of the world are seeing conflicts brought about by leaders that don't very often think of the consequences.
America seems intent on starting things they never finish and ultimately the outcome is no better and reverts back to where it was or is even worse. |
"what goes on in the heads of leaders of countries and the outcome for their actions is ultimately blamed on all its people".
"forms of retribution against that country's people wherever they may live"
There is so much wrong with both of those sentences. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 17:02 - Mar 23 with 527 views | Blueschev |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 16:34 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Are you aware how complex it is to understand the complexities of other cultures. I've see people on this site describe Chinese, Russians and Iranians in ways I consider truly ignorant to the point of showing clear signs of racist hatred. Racism (and I include antisemitism) is rooted in ignorance. So we all need to educate ourselves and each other out of this hatred.
Where should we get the education we need from? It's a genuine question.
You say "Netanyahu conflating the state of Israel with all Jews is just one of the many, many wrong things he says and does. It certainly doesn't make it true..."
You're absolutely right, but how often have you heard people say "They want Israel wiped off the map"? That was a mistranslation by the way - it was discussed in a thread last night. But even if it wasn't a misquote would you be tolerant of anyone saying "Ahmedinejad saying Israel should be wiped off the map is just one of the many, many wrong things he says. It certainly doesn't make it true..."? I doubt it.
I've read a lot of books and listened to a lot of Jewish academics explaining terms like antisemitism, Zionism, Jewish Zionist, Christian Zionist, Christian fundamentalist, religious zealot, non-religious Jew, ethnic Jew, cultural Jew and they are not easy concepts for most people to absorb and understand easily. My reading has also given me a better understanding of the founding of Israel and Zionism than most.
I've struggled to understand (or TRIED to understand) why non-religious Jews can state "Israel was given to us by God", or why Jews who mock Jesus Christ have any truck with Christian Zionists, and vice versa.
It's trendy to say "words are important". Indeed they are, as few people want to offend others, and even less want to be branded hateful.
So what are the options for getting the words right? I think there are at least three:
a) Stay silent and say nothing for fear of saying the wrong thing. Well that's never served Jews well.
b) Show blanket support for Israel, all Jews, Jewishness in general and Zionists - well, I'm never going to be that uncritical of any group of people because it's an intellectually vacant thing to do.
c) Dedicate as much time as I can afford to understanding what these important and nuanced terms mean.
Like I said, racism is rooted in ignorance, so I think option c is the best approach for understanding all cultures. Don't you agree? |
I'm sorry, but the burning of Jewish ambulances in London does not require a deep understanding of the Middle East / Zionism, or anything else to call it out for what it is. It is a racist attack. It's not difficult.
I too have read extensively about Israel / Zionism, having studied the conflict both privately and as an undergraduate. I don't see what difference it makes in this instance.
I despise and refute it when Netanyahu claims to represent Jews worldwide, just as I despise and refute it when antisemites do the same. [Post edited 23 Mar 17:07]
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:07 - Mar 23 with 500 views | Tambu |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:58 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
That probably sounded funny in your head. Racist attacks on an ethno religious minority in this country s not a laughing matter. |
Did I say funny? You are yet again playing strawman.
It's not funny to start wars either , but there we are. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 17:09 - Mar 23 with 483 views | Benters |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 17:02 - Mar 23 by Blueschev |
I'm sorry, but the burning of Jewish ambulances in London does not require a deep understanding of the Middle East / Zionism, or anything else to call it out for what it is. It is a racist attack. It's not difficult.
I too have read extensively about Israel / Zionism, having studied the conflict both privately and as an undergraduate. I don't see what difference it makes in this instance.
I despise and refute it when Netanyahu claims to represent Jews worldwide, just as I despise and refute it when antisemites do the same. [Post edited 23 Mar 17:07]
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Exactly this is London England our capital city. |  |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:11 - Mar 23 with 467 views | Blueschev |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:07 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
Did I say funny? You are yet again playing strawman.
It's not funny to start wars either , but there we are. |
What war did Hatzola start? | | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:11 - Mar 23 with 466 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:07 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
Did I say funny? You are yet again playing strawman.
It's not funny to start wars either , but there we are. |
"I've never met a Semitic ambulance to be fair."
Was that supposed to be a serious and intelligent point then? You are making light of an attack on the British Jewish community.
"You are being manipulated."
What does that even mean?
"It's not funny to start wars either , but there we are".
That sounds an awful lot like you are justifying the attck. [Post edited 23 Mar 17:18]
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:13 - Mar 23 with 452 views | Benters |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:11 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
"I've never met a Semitic ambulance to be fair."
Was that supposed to be a serious and intelligent point then? You are making light of an attack on the British Jewish community.
"You are being manipulated."
What does that even mean?
"It's not funny to start wars either , but there we are".
That sounds an awful lot like you are justifying the attck. [Post edited 23 Mar 17:18]
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Those Ambulances were for the whole community whatever faith/religion or creed.
Whoever did this should be strung up. | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:21 - Mar 23 with 422 views | bartyg |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:13 - Mar 23 by Benters |
Those Ambulances were for the whole community whatever faith/religion or creed.
Whoever did this should be strung up. |
please be for real, you think they deserve capital punishment? | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:26 - Mar 23 with 407 views | Tambu |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:11 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
"I've never met a Semitic ambulance to be fair."
Was that supposed to be a serious and intelligent point then? You are making light of an attack on the British Jewish community.
"You are being manipulated."
What does that even mean?
"It's not funny to start wars either , but there we are".
That sounds an awful lot like you are justifying the attck. [Post edited 23 Mar 17:18]
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An object being attacked is very different to blowing up people.
Manipulated? The press dear boy. The press, It presents stories to manipulate. Had you not noticed that? I assume you have been paying attention for many decades or is this coming as a shock to you?
I never said I justified an attack on an ambulance. In fact I mentioned other attacks on ambulances and the lack of press coverage on them. I could go further and give personal knowledge of of people who have vandalised "everyday" ambulances and the court system has set them back into society with a slap on the wrist. My outrage was heard far and wide. | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:27 - Mar 23 with 401 views | Benters |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:21 - Mar 23 by bartyg |
please be for real, you think they deserve capital punishment? |
What for burning a Ambulance? Yes bring back the birch.
They wouldn’t do it again! | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:31 - Mar 23 with 382 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:26 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
An object being attacked is very different to blowing up people.
Manipulated? The press dear boy. The press, It presents stories to manipulate. Had you not noticed that? I assume you have been paying attention for many decades or is this coming as a shock to you?
I never said I justified an attack on an ambulance. In fact I mentioned other attacks on ambulances and the lack of press coverage on them. I could go further and give personal knowledge of of people who have vandalised "everyday" ambulances and the court system has set them back into society with a slap on the wrist. My outrage was heard far and wide. |
I haven't seen anyone on this thread comparing the attack on 4 ambulances to blowing up people. So I'm not sure why you have brought that up?
The rest of you post is just word salad. | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:34 - Mar 23 with 374 views | Tambu |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:31 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't seen anyone on this thread comparing the attack on 4 ambulances to blowing up people. So I'm not sure why you have brought that up?
The rest of you post is just word salad. |
Can you also run me through the part where those ambulances were to be replaced very shortly according to the website and now they will get the insurance money and public donations. That's a stroke of good fortune isn't it. Alls well that ends well | |
| I love ITFC, but a large number of the fans are bellends |
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