| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:56 - Mar 23 with 1051 views | JakeITFC |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:49 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
When Netanyahui says
he is “A representative of the entire Jewish people.”
Reported by the Washington Post and cited in an American Council for Judaism analysis and
“I went to Paris not just as the prime minister of Israel, but as a representative of the entire Jewish people. ”Quoted in the Jewish Journal.
In his role of Head of the state of Israel, is he not conflating all Jews with Israel?
Some of us are bright enough not to conflate normal peace-loving Jews with the actions of Israel. Some of us can even extend that ability to normal Russians and Iranians with the actions of Russia and Iran.
Unfortunately, not everybody has the ability to read Netanhayu's conflation of Israel and all Jews and not follow suit.
So, yes there is nuance.
I see "posters" on this forum regularly claim "this has nothing to do with Israel, it's an attack on Jews and therefore anti-semitism."
Is it a surprise that normal people make this mistake when the PM of the country is conflating the two entities? [Post edited 23 Mar 11:51]
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It probably isn’t unlikely that at least some of the people carrying out these actions are doing so as retribution for the war crimes of Israel.
However in attacking Jews (and relating them to the actions of Israel) what they are doing is anti-Semitic and quite frankly not at all useful to their cause. These attacks are awful and cowardly and actually just go to scare normal people trying to go about their lives and embolden the worst kind of rhetoric on both sides (which causes the wars in the first place). |  | |  |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:57 - Mar 23 with 1038 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:35 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
Disgusting. This is what comes from deflecting and explaining away anti-Semitism. |
Again, too simplistic. This, sadly, is what comes from poorly defining antisemitism, accusing people incorrectly of that form of racism and conflating Israel and all Jews by the leader of Israel himself, among others.
Pointing out nuance is important.
Words are important. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:00 - Mar 23 with 1027 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:56 - Mar 23 by JakeITFC |
It probably isn’t unlikely that at least some of the people carrying out these actions are doing so as retribution for the war crimes of Israel.
However in attacking Jews (and relating them to the actions of Israel) what they are doing is anti-Semitic and quite frankly not at all useful to their cause. These attacks are awful and cowardly and actually just go to scare normal people trying to go about their lives and embolden the worst kind of rhetoric on both sides (which causes the wars in the first place). |
I couldn't agree more.
We should however ask ourselves why Netanyahu is so keen to say "he represents all Jews" when that sort of conflation is so dangerous. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:02 - Mar 23 with 1030 views | Blueschev |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:49 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
When Netanyahui says
he is “A representative of the entire Jewish people.”
Reported by the Washington Post and cited in an American Council for Judaism analysis and
“I went to Paris not just as the prime minister of Israel, but as a representative of the entire Jewish people. ”Quoted in the Jewish Journal.
In his role of Head of the state of Israel, is he not conflating all Jews with Israel?
Some of us are bright enough not to conflate normal peace-loving Jews with the actions of Israel. Some of us can even extend that ability to normal Russians and Iranians with the actions of Russia and Iran.
Unfortunately, not everybody has the ability to read Netanhayu's conflation of Israel and all Jews and not follow suit.
So, yes there is nuance.
I see "posters" on this forum regularly claim "this has nothing to do with Israel, it's an attack on Jews and therefore anti-semitism."
Is it a surprise that normal people make this mistake when the PM of the country is conflating the two entities? [Post edited 23 Mar 11:51]
|
Netanyahu conflating the state of Israel with all Jews is just one of the many, many wrong things he says and does. It certainly doesn't make it true, nor does it provide context for an antisemitic attack on an ambulance service run by British Jews.
Would you reference the Taliban's treatment of women and girls when discussing an attack on a Mosque in order to provide nuance? |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:02 - Mar 23 with 1031 views | J2BLUE |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:57 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Again, too simplistic. This, sadly, is what comes from poorly defining antisemitism, accusing people incorrectly of that form of racism and conflating Israel and all Jews by the leader of Israel himself, among others.
Pointing out nuance is important.
Words are important. |
Nah, it's not simplistic.
As a country we have allowed this sh1t for far too long and it has predictably got worse.
The same people, over and over again, would rather try and explain it away than condemn it. |  |
| "I am a genuine believer in free speech, in the real sense, not the left wing sense, the 'I think free speech is important for people I agree with' Guardian readers" - Jonathan Pie ///// "These middle class, perma-offended, virtue-signalling woke w@nkers have declared that the great unwashed are just one tasteless joke away from turning into fascists" - Jonathan Pie ///// "In a sense, the political left’s attempts to silence ideas they cannot, or will not, debate are a confession of intellectual bankruptcy" - Thomas Sowell
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:10 - Mar 23 with 984 views | Benters |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:02 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
Nah, it's not simplistic.
As a country we have allowed this sh1t for far too long and it has predictably got worse.
The same people, over and over again, would rather try and explain it away than condemn it. |
Spot on J2. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:15 - Mar 23 with 968 views | BloomBlue |
It's never gone away.
It was here way before the current situation. Its been building and building, and the Jewish community is under attack from both sides, the far right and the far left. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:21 - Mar 23 with 952 views | Steve_M |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:49 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
When Netanyahui says
he is “A representative of the entire Jewish people.”
Reported by the Washington Post and cited in an American Council for Judaism analysis and
“I went to Paris not just as the prime minister of Israel, but as a representative of the entire Jewish people. ”Quoted in the Jewish Journal.
In his role of Head of the state of Israel, is he not conflating all Jews with Israel?
Some of us are bright enough not to conflate normal peace-loving Jews with the actions of Israel. Some of us can even extend that ability to normal Russians and Iranians with the actions of Russia and Iran.
Unfortunately, not everybody has the ability to read Netanhayu's conflation of Israel and all Jews and not follow suit.
So, yes there is nuance.
I see "posters" on this forum regularly claim "this has nothing to do with Israel, it's an attack on Jews and therefore anti-semitism."
Is it a surprise that normal people make this mistake when the PM of the country is conflating the two entities? [Post edited 23 Mar 11:51]
|
Do you usually take Netanyahu at his word on anything or only when it confirms your prejudices?
I don't really know why you are using this level of sophistry to justify antisemitism. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:30 - Mar 23 with 923 views | eireblue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:00 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
I couldn't agree more.
We should however ask ourselves why Netanyahu is so keen to say "he represents all Jews" when that sort of conflation is so dangerous. |
So, if I was a Jewish person being attacked in the street, the important nuance I should have in my head is hmmmm, what did Netanyahu mean by his speech reported in the Washington post about his trip to Paris. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:33 - Mar 23 with 916 views | DJR |
Mirroring the heading to my thread on Islamophobia, it's antisemitism pure and simple. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:46 - Mar 23 with 871 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 10:38 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
The motivation is hatred against Jews. Full stop.
We don’t try to contextualise Islamophobic attacks against Muslims in the UK with events happening elsewhere in the world. We condemn them without reservation.
When those animals were attacking migrants in hotels in response to the son of an immigrant murdering those little girls in Southport we didn’t attempt to contextualise their actions. We condemned them without reservation. We quite rightly called the, racists.
It’s only when attacks against Jews this happens. |
I agree; it is racial hatred against Jews. Nobody’s disputing that this is racism. My point was what is motivating this hatred? Surely we need to know where this hatred comes from and how it’s being spread if we stand any chance of addressing it?
We very much contextualised the behaviour of people attacking migrant hotels. There was a lot of focus on how the messages were being spread online and the role politicians’ language was playing (e.g. sorry for Guardian link - https://www.theguardian.com/wo |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:57 - Mar 23 with 832 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:46 - Mar 23 by Swansea_Blue |
I agree; it is racial hatred against Jews. Nobody’s disputing that this is racism. My point was what is motivating this hatred? Surely we need to know where this hatred comes from and how it’s being spread if we stand any chance of addressing it?
We very much contextualised the behaviour of people attacking migrant hotels. There was a lot of focus on how the messages were being spread online and the role politicians’ language was playing (e.g. sorry for Guardian link - https://www.theguardian.com/wo |
The Guardian link doesn't work. The only people contextualising the attacks on migrants in hotels were racists like Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson and Lucy Connolly.
Normal decent people were just horrified with the actions of the racists. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 13:05 - Mar 23 with 795 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:57 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
The Guardian link doesn't work. The only people contextualising the attacks on migrants in hotels were racists like Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson and Lucy Connolly.
Normal decent people were just horrified with the actions of the racists. |
Apols - https://www.theguardian.com/wo
It was a report on the letter sent by over 200 refugee organisations asking politicians to tone down the anti/migrant rhetoric. There’s been lots of discussion about how anti-migrant sentiment is being fuelled. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 13:22 - Mar 23 with 746 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 13:05 - Mar 23 by Swansea_Blue |
Apols - https://www.theguardian.com/wo
It was a report on the letter sent by over 200 refugee organisations asking politicians to tone down the anti/migrant rhetoric. There’s been lots of discussion about how anti-migrant sentiment is being fuelled. |
I think we are at cross purposes here. The people who were trying to contextualise the attacks were not good people. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 13:46 - Mar 23 with 702 views | eireblue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:46 - Mar 23 by Swansea_Blue |
I agree; it is racial hatred against Jews. Nobody’s disputing that this is racism. My point was what is motivating this hatred? Surely we need to know where this hatred comes from and how it’s being spread if we stand any chance of addressing it?
We very much contextualised the behaviour of people attacking migrant hotels. There was a lot of focus on how the messages were being spread online and the role politicians’ language was playing (e.g. sorry for Guardian link - https://www.theguardian.com/wo |
Racists, hate being called racist.
The first thing to do, is not pseudo-intellectualise reasons for racism.
I am sure racists will be able to give loads of reasons.
Call it what it is.
It is not the victims that need to change. | | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:00 - Mar 23 with 669 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 09:52 - Mar 23 by Whos_blue |
For the avoidance of doubt I have never been and never will be "one of those posters", whatever that might even mean.
Your insinuation that I may be something I'm not has really pi55ed me off bloots.
I'm trying to make sense of these hideous events.
Never confuse me for anything or anyone other than that. |
You're not allowed to pretend that the vast majority of the British Jewish community have a deep affinity for and are vocally supportive of the Israeli state, if you even think as much then you're a very bad man. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 14:05 - Mar 23 with 654 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 11:56 - Mar 23 by JakeITFC |
It probably isn’t unlikely that at least some of the people carrying out these actions are doing so as retribution for the war crimes of Israel.
However in attacking Jews (and relating them to the actions of Israel) what they are doing is anti-Semitic and quite frankly not at all useful to their cause. These attacks are awful and cowardly and actually just go to scare normal people trying to go about their lives and embolden the worst kind of rhetoric on both sides (which causes the wars in the first place). |
There you go.....job done. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 14:07 - Mar 23 with 646 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 12:02 - Mar 23 by Blueschev |
Netanyahu conflating the state of Israel with all Jews is just one of the many, many wrong things he says and does. It certainly doesn't make it true, nor does it provide context for an antisemitic attack on an ambulance service run by British Jews.
Would you reference the Taliban's treatment of women and girls when discussing an attack on a Mosque in order to provide nuance? |
Perhaps, if Afghanistan was the only State created as a home and sanctuary for all Muslims. | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:10 - Mar 23 with 638 views | eireblue |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:00 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You're not allowed to pretend that the vast majority of the British Jewish community have a deep affinity for and are vocally supportive of the Israeli state, if you even think as much then you're a very bad man. |
Evidence that the vast majority of the British Jewish community are vocally supportive of the Israeli state? | | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:14 - Mar 23 with 635 views | MattinLondon |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:00 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You're not allowed to pretend that the vast majority of the British Jewish community have a deep affinity for and are vocally supportive of the Israeli state, if you even think as much then you're a very bad man. |
I’m finding this thread to be quite confusing.
The attack on those ambulances is bad - full stop. It doesn’t matter what is happening in the Middle East, attacking medical facilities is bad - full stop. Why can’t we simply leave this thread like that?
British Jews are vocally supportive of the Israeli state - so what? What the f**k has that got to do with this attack? Ok, everything has a knock on effect and people might well feel anger towards the Israeli government but burning f***ing ambulances is ridiculous. |  | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:24 - Mar 23 with 591 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:10 - Mar 23 by eireblue |
Evidence that the vast majority of the British Jewish community are vocally supportive of the Israeli state? |
https://www.jpr.org.uk/insight
At the same time, at least 60% have donated to a charity supporting Israel since 7 October, 65% identify as Zionists, 71% feel a great deal of concern for the lives of Israelis, 77% feel attached to Israel, and 88% regard Israel as the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People. 52% think democracy in Israel is alive and well, 57% think the IDF has operated within the bounds of international law, and 90% think Iran represents a threat to Israel’s existence. Again, these are all majorities. | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:27 - Mar 23 with 582 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:14 - Mar 23 by MattinLondon |
I’m finding this thread to be quite confusing.
The attack on those ambulances is bad - full stop. It doesn’t matter what is happening in the Middle East, attacking medical facilities is bad - full stop. Why can’t we simply leave this thread like that?
British Jews are vocally supportive of the Israeli state - so what? What the f**k has that got to do with this attack? Ok, everything has a knock on effect and people might well feel anger towards the Israeli government but burning f***ing ambulances is ridiculous. |
Yeah fair enough but hardly surprising with the amount of muck GB has slung around this issue. | |
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:44 - Mar 23 with 551 views | eireblue |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:24 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.jpr.org.uk/insight
At the same time, at least 60% have donated to a charity supporting Israel since 7 October, 65% identify as Zionists, 71% feel a great deal of concern for the lives of Israelis, 77% feel attached to Israel, and 88% regard Israel as the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People. 52% think democracy in Israel is alive and well, 57% think the IDF has operated within the bounds of international law, and 90% think Iran represents a threat to Israel’s existence. Again, these are all majorities. |
Nope, nothing about vast majority vocally supportive.
Why didn’t you quote this.
“ If there is a ‘majority’ opinion among Jews, it’s not always straightforward”
“ 70% of British Jews think that Jews who don’t live in Israel should be free to publicly criticise Israel’s government or its policies.”
“ 76% ‘strongly’ or ‘somewhat’ disapprove of Netanyahu; 74% think he prioritises his own personal interests over those of the State of Israel as a whole……..52% feel it hasn’t done enough to provide humanitarian aid to Gazans”
“But reading between the lines of the data, it seems to me that the majority shared emotion is pain. Pain, to varying degrees, about the array of threats facing Israel – its people, its institutions, its reputation, its Jewishness, its democracy – and the threats facing us here in Britain – our security, our position, our relationships, our future. Pain mostly about who we are, who we need to be to secure our future, and what costs we are willing to bear in pursuit of that. That’s our lot right now. Only history will show whether we allowed it to tear us apart, or to bind us more closely together.”
You are lying about an ethnic group you are not a member of, when the topic, is an attack on that ethnic group.
That group talks about fear and pain. You lie about that group.
That’s dog whistling racism in my book. | | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:47 - Mar 23 with 539 views | eireblue |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:27 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Yeah fair enough but hardly surprising with the amount of muck GB has slung around this issue. |
Of course, blame the person of Jewish heritage that’s stands up for Jews, not the racists. | | | |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 15:37 - Mar 23 with 479 views | Blueschev |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 14:00 - Mar 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You're not allowed to pretend that the vast majority of the British Jewish community have a deep affinity for and are vocally supportive of the Israeli state, if you even think as much then you're a very bad man. |
If that were true, and I very much doubt that it is, does that make British Jews / Jewish institutions fair game for reprisals against the actions of Israel? That appears to be what you're saying. | | | |
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