| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... 18:09 - Apr 20 with 3791 views | Keno |
|  |
| |  |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:09 - Apr 21 with 724 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:07 - Apr 21 by lowhouseblue |
sadly, that's mainly true because most people have already made their mind up about starmer. |
I reckon I'm one of those people, but would appreciate the case for the defense if you have time / inclination? ... ready to be persuaded... [Post edited 21 Apr 11:13]
|  |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:03 - Apr 21 with 647 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:07 - Apr 21 by lowhouseblue |
sadly, that's mainly true because most people have already made their mind up about starmer. |
He's more dishonest than Boris.
The sensible centrists backed a duff project that was corrupt and rotten to the core.
Will they admit it? |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:03 - Apr 21 with 640 views | lowhouseblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 11:09 - Apr 21 by giant_stow |
I reckon I'm one of those people, but would appreciate the case for the defense if you have time / inclination? ... ready to be persuaded... [Post edited 21 Apr 11:13]
|
i'm not sure it's a case for the defence - more a matter of extenuating circumstances.
people always claim to be fed up with politicians and to want people who are above politics instead. well starmer is as close as we've got to that. he isn't ideological, he's entirely pragmatic, and if he were a permanent secretary he'd be very good at it. but he has none of the political skills you need to manage a party, keep back benchers inline, or provide real political leadership. he can't push through an agenda with the plp, despite the landslide majority, and he can't manage his own team at no. 10. he seems to lack an instinct for political risks and how to side step them. sadly, politically he is inept.
but, the constraints he faces are pretty extreme. there is next to no economic wriggle room, and the gamble on growth hasn't yet come good. his chancellor hasn't helped. he is facing a widening realisation that our state is sclerotic and is imposing a huge dead weight cost - but has no party consensus on, and offers not much leadership on, how to respond to that. there are tough choices to be made, which is when you need political leadership, and that isn't starmer's thing. and starmer's background makes him pretty ill placed to think in novel ways about how to reform the state.
it's all pretty depressing. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:08]
|  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:06 - Apr 21 with 630 views | lowhouseblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:03 - Apr 21 by jasondozzell |
He's more dishonest than Boris.
The sensible centrists backed a duff project that was corrupt and rotten to the core.
Will they admit it? |
'more dishonest than boris' is just nonsense. you're just driven by hate because your lot failed utterly. you've got polanski and all the corbyn factions now so i'm sure one of them is saying exactly what you want to hear. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:08]
| |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:11 - Apr 21 with 620 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:06 - Apr 21 by lowhouseblue |
'more dishonest than boris' is just nonsense. you're just driven by hate because your lot failed utterly. you've got polanski and all the corbyn factions now so i'm sure one of them is saying exactly what you want to hear. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:08]
|
Riled, much?
Corbyn derangement syndrome. He's not been leader for 6 years.
Starmer is demonstrably more of a liar than Boris. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:12]
| | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:21 - Apr 21 with 601 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:11 - Apr 21 by jasondozzell |
Riled, much?
Corbyn derangement syndrome. He's not been leader for 6 years.
Starmer is demonstrably more of a liar than Boris. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:12]
|
He was right. And when you use the same tactic as maga, claiming a derangement syndrome, it's time to review your position! |  |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:22 - Apr 21 with 599 views | DJR |
The knee-jerk sacking of Robbins is further evidence of a lack of judgment from Starmer.
This is what they released on Friday.
https://assets.publishing.serv
It contained the following passage.
"There is some discretion for departments to proceed with clearance and
the FCDO had exercised it in this case, granting Mandelson vetting clearance. Cat had not
seen the audit trail for this decision so we did not yet know on what basis the decision had been taken, contrary to the recommendation."
What I don't understand is why a lawyer would act precipitously in sacking Robbins without knowing the other side's case and the full facts?
And as well as damaging relations with the civil service, it also begs the question as to whether Starmer misled the House yesterday, and so will need to come back to correct the record, as someone on the radio suggested.
All Stamer needed to do was claim he was not aware of the vetting process,, as Robbins has now confirmed was the case. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:28]
|  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:26 - Apr 21 with 586 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:21 - Apr 21 by redrickstuhaart |
He was right. And when you use the same tactic as maga, claiming a derangement syndrome, it's time to review your position! |
He was not right.
The centrists and the media brigade who colluded in all this just can't accept being wrong. It's breathtaking!
This is on all of you. There's no 'hard left' in the party to blame!
Own it! | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:38 - Apr 21 with 549 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:26 - Apr 21 by jasondozzell |
He was not right.
The centrists and the media brigade who colluded in all this just can't accept being wrong. It's breathtaking!
This is on all of you. There's no 'hard left' in the party to blame!
Own it! |
He was. To compare with johnson is absurd. | |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:51 - Apr 21 with 526 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:03 - Apr 21 by lowhouseblue |
i'm not sure it's a case for the defence - more a matter of extenuating circumstances.
people always claim to be fed up with politicians and to want people who are above politics instead. well starmer is as close as we've got to that. he isn't ideological, he's entirely pragmatic, and if he were a permanent secretary he'd be very good at it. but he has none of the political skills you need to manage a party, keep back benchers inline, or provide real political leadership. he can't push through an agenda with the plp, despite the landslide majority, and he can't manage his own team at no. 10. he seems to lack an instinct for political risks and how to side step them. sadly, politically he is inept.
but, the constraints he faces are pretty extreme. there is next to no economic wriggle room, and the gamble on growth hasn't yet come good. his chancellor hasn't helped. he is facing a widening realisation that our state is sclerotic and is imposing a huge dead weight cost - but has no party consensus on, and offers not much leadership on, how to respond to that. there are tough choices to be made, which is when you need political leadership, and that isn't starmer's thing. and starmer's background makes him pretty ill placed to think in novel ways about how to reform the state.
it's all pretty depressing. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:08]
|
Good post - interesting and fair points, ta, but even so, I think on integrity grounds alone, its all gone too far personally. | |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 13:27 - Apr 21 with 473 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:38 - Apr 21 by redrickstuhaart |
He was. To compare with johnson is absurd. |
Only if you take your news from 'The News Agents' or 'TRIP'.
The comparison is anything but absurd.
Starmer has lied more than Johnson. Simple fact. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 13:29 - Apr 21 with 469 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:38 - Apr 21 by redrickstuhaart |
He was. To compare with johnson is absurd. |
'When it comes to honesty there are three kinds of people. The first are honest and upstanding, they generally stick to their word and try not to deceive others. Although, of course, deceit may happen on occasion, they try their best to keep dishonesty to a minimum. When they stray they admit it.
The second kind are dishonest people who are open about the content of their character – individuals who are, in short, ‘honest liars’. Paradigmatic here is Silvio Berlusconi, the former Italian prime minister, who once claimed to be the “Jesus Christ of politics” because he makes sacrifices “for everyone” only to later concede, when investigated on charges of corruption, that he was not a saint and “you’ve all understood that”. In this regard, the media tycoon was the template for Donald Trump and Boris Johnson, with all three never guilty of hypocrisy – that cardinal sin in politics – because they never claimed to be honest in the first place. Unsurprisingly, many find such personalities reprehensible, yet others view them as a refreshing change and often amusing. Sure they lie, but everyone in politics does. That they are at least open about their moral failings means they aren’t really politicians at all.
The final category is the dishonest figure who claims to be a beacon of truth. While the likes of Berlusconi and Johnson are incapable of hypocrisy (and by extension shame) the problem for this kind of person – think Hilary Clinton or Matteo Renzi – is that, once caught out, the incongruity of their words and actions renders them entirely inauthentic. It is in this final category that Starmer now finds himself.
This is a particular problem for the Labour leader, which will only get worse because he has leaned so hard into presenting himself as principled. This often bordered on hyperbole, such as when his leadership campaign delivered hundreds of thousands of posters adorned with nothing but his grinning face and the words ‘integrity’, ‘authority’ and ‘unity’. In the early months of 2020, Starmer insisted his was a ‘moral socialism’.'
From 2021. It was always there, it's just that incurious centrists in their bubble didn't want to see it... | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 13:41 - Apr 21 with 439 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:38 - Apr 21 by redrickstuhaart |
He was. To compare with johnson is absurd. |
It may not be so in your face as Johnson, but Starmer does come across as a devious and evasive character.
Take this as an example.
I suppose it could be said to be the equivalent of the "no comment" that defence lawyers will advise their clients. [Post edited 21 Apr 13:51]
| | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 13:51 - Apr 21 with 409 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 13:27 - Apr 21 by jasondozzell |
Only if you take your news from 'The News Agents' or 'TRIP'.
The comparison is anything but absurd.
Starmer has lied more than Johnson. Simple fact. |
Bizarre. | |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 14:37 - Apr 21 with 364 views | BlueSmoke |
Starmer has put our national security at serious risk by appointing the fiend Mandleson before any vetting was done. He had top security access. Mind blowing.
Now we find out another nonce-mate was put forward as an ambassador by Starmer.
Why do Labour have such a peodo problem? |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:09 - Apr 21 with 288 views | Benters |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:03 - Apr 21 by jasondozzell |
He's more dishonest than Boris.
The sensible centrists backed a duff project that was corrupt and rotten to the core.
Will they admit it? |
He is an awful man is ‘no idea Kier’ he’s the most hated PM in history. |  |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:11 - Apr 21 with 276 views | DanTheMan |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:09 - Apr 21 by Benters |
He is an awful man is ‘no idea Kier’ he’s the most hated PM in history. |
lol
I don't even like the guy, but most hated PM in history? Give over. |  |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:12 - Apr 21 with 270 views | Benters |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:11 - Apr 21 by DanTheMan |
lol
I don't even like the guy, but most hated PM in history? Give over. |
Yep he’s a knob alright. | |
| |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 16:23 - Apr 21 with 198 views | DJR |
I agree entirely with Calum Miller, the Lib Dem foreign affairs spokesperson.
"I was proud to work with Sir Olly and I know the regard held for him by civil servants and ministers. So I am now frankly furious to use a word of the day to learn that a No 10 spokesman has just said that Sir Olly was ‘a man of integrity and professionalism who has made an error of judgment’ .
[The PM] has directed the full power of the state against one man … This state-led assault on one man is unprecedented and it is unacceptable." | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 17:00 - Apr 21 with 165 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 15:11 - Apr 21 by DanTheMan |
lol
I don't even like the guy, but most hated PM in history? Give over. |
"hated" is the wrong word but this from Full Fact is rather damning.
https://fullfact.org/politics/
"Last September Gideon Skinner, senior director of UK politics at Ipsos, said that Mr Starmer’s “personal satisfaction ratings are the worst for any Prime Minister polled by Ipsos since we first started asking the question in 1977”.
This was based on Ipsos polling which had found 13% of voters in September said they were satisfied with Mr Starmer. In the November edition of Ipsos’ ‘Political Monitor’, 13% were again satisfied with Mr Starmer.
Earlier this month, Ipsos reported Mr Starmer’s satisfaction rating had improved slightly in January, and was at 15%, though a 77% dissatisfaction rating meant overall Mr Starmer’s net satisfaction score was -62. Mr Skinner said satisfaction with the Prime Minister “remains historically low”.
Our analysis of the Ipsos data suggests that on all three ways of examining the figures—satisfaction, dissatisfaction and net satisfaction—Mr Starmer’s scores at some points in recent months have been lower than other PMs since 1977.
There are a number of other polls to look at, however, which give a mixed picture. Some suggest Mr Starmer’s polling may not be the worst for a PM and Liz Truss fared worse." [Post edited 21 Apr 17:01]
| | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:55 - Apr 21 with 77 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 10:43 - Apr 21 by DJR |
Interesting to note that the person sitting behind Robbins with the orange pass is Dave Penman General Secretary of the FDA, the union for senior civil servants of which I am a retired member.
My view is that Robbins has an open and shut case which will cost the government a hefty amount. But no doubt it will be governed by NDAs. [Post edited 21 Apr 13:09]
|
Dave Penman, the general secretary of the FDA, who sat behind Robbins during his parliamentary hearing on Tuesday, put it robustly: “After the evidence today, people will look at this and come to the conclusion that Olly was tossed out by the prime minister and did absolutely nothing wrong. He got the sack for doing what he was asked to do.
“I don’t think anyone is going to conclude that Olly should have been dismissed or treated the way he was. It was completely unjustifiable, and yet that’s what happened.” | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:05 - Apr 21 with 63 views | DJR |
In his speech in the debate this afternoon Ed Davey, the Lib Dem leader, said the Mandelson appointment was motivated by the need to please Donald Trump.
Stephen Bush, the Financial Times’ political commentator, disagrees. On Bluesky he says:
"The ‘Starmer appointed Mandelson because he needed someone to manage Trump’ - not true. What happened was:
1) From the general election there was a desire in Downing Street for a political appointee
2) There was no question that the US embassy had good Trumpworld links as it was
It was just the old story of appointing political allies to diplomatic posts - something which we learnt today some in Downing Street wanted to do to one of the sacked comms directors, too.
Mandelson’s first major task when he arrived in Washington (which to be fair he did pull off) was having to soothe Trumpworld that a pro-EU, previous Trump critic and China dove had become ambassador."
My colleague Jessica Elgot agrees.
"Yes, this is one of the most pervasive myths of the whole business, that it was to appease Trump. Total boll*cks.
“Oh they needed an operator!” They literally had someone already there who the White House asked to keep in post and they put their mate in there instead." | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 23:18 - Apr 21 with 21 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 12:11 - Apr 21 by jasondozzell |
Riled, much?
Corbyn derangement syndrome. He's not been leader for 6 years.
Starmer is demonstrably more of a liar than Boris. [Post edited 21 Apr 12:12]
|
Come on that's ridiculous |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
