| “Knowing the league” 14:34 - Jun 19 with 716 views | andyblue231 |
Just like “knowing the club”, is it a myth?
Recent rookie gambles at smaller clubs include hurzeler, glasner, Iraola, pochettino, Andrews, frank, Perreira etc.
Knowing the league gets you almost nothing and you have to swallow a talent deficit to get it. Because people who know the league and who are available are normally available cos they’re average. But it somehow feels safer.
Every manager who has ever been successful has at some point managed in a league for the first time. What matters is talent.
This feels like when clubs paid ten times as much for English players who know the league. Then we all realised it didn’t matter. And the talented lad from Senegal was much better value.
Why do we feel safer with familiar names still?
The data is supposed to lead us to talent and if it doesn’t then what’s on this famous dashboard? Sky Sports News? [Post edited 19 Jun 14:36]
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| “Knowing the league” on 14:38 - Jun 19 with 657 views | jayessess |
I think "Rookie managers who kept newly-promoted teams in the Premier League" is a much shorter list. |  |
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| “Knowing the league” on 14:38 - Jun 19 with 654 views | hype313 |
Like I said to you in a previous thread, all those names you listed (hurzeler, glasner, Iraola, pochettino, Andrews, frank, Perreira etc.) Went into established PL Clubs. |  |
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| “Knowing the league” on 14:41 - Jun 19 with 628 views | andyblue231 |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:38 - Jun 19 by jayessess |
I think "Rookie managers who kept newly-promoted teams in the Premier League" is a much shorter list. |
How long is the list of managers like that who’ve failed? Is it longer than the list of established managers who’ve failed to keep new teams up? | | | |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:44 - Jun 19 with 606 views | tractorboy1978 |
I could equally throw Ruben Amorim, Frank De Boer, Bob Bradley, Jan Siewert or Remi Garde at you though. All came from abroad and all were rubbish. | | | |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:46 - Jun 19 with 580 views | andyblue231 |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:44 - Jun 19 by tractorboy1978 |
I could equally throw Ruben Amorim, Frank De Boer, Bob Bradley, Jan Siewert or Remi Garde at you though. All came from abroad and all were rubbish. |
Yes for sure.
My point is knowing the league isn’t the telling factor, it’s talent.
I want a talented manager. I don’t care if the most talent manager knows the league or doesn’t. | | | |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:49 - Jun 19 with 565 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:38 - Jun 19 by jayessess |
I think "Rookie managers who kept newly-promoted teams in the Premier League" is a much shorter list. |
This. |  |
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| “Knowing the league” on 15:00 - Jun 19 with 532 views | jayessess |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:41 - Jun 19 by andyblue231 |
How long is the list of managers like that who’ve failed? Is it longer than the list of established managers who’ve failed to keep new teams up? |
Depends how you want to define 'established' really. Most promoted teams keep the manager they go up with, so very little precedent for having to appoint someone in the Summer beforehand (just Leicester in 2024-25).
Last five years:
2025-26
Le Bris: no previous experience: stayed up.
Farke: yes previous experience: stayed up
Parker: yes previous experience: relegated
2024-25
Cooper: yes, sacked in 16th, van Nistelrooy, no, relegated
Martin: no, sacked in 20th, Juric, no, relegated
McKenna: no, relegated
2023-24
Edwards: no, relegated
Kompany: no, relegated
Heckingbottom: no, sacked in 20th, Wilder: yes, relegated
2022-23:
Parker: yes, sacked in 17th, O'Neil: no, stayed up
Silva, yes, stayed up
Cooper: no, stayed up
2021-22
Farke: yes, sacked in 20th, Smith: yes, relegated.
Frank: no, stayed up
Xisco: no, sacked in 15th, Ranieri: yes, sacked in 17th, Hodgson, yes, relegated.
Can't discern any particular pattern (other than that O'Neil is the only coach on there who kept a promoted team up without having been the one to get them promoted). [Post edited 19 Jun 15:03]
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| “Knowing the league” on 15:04 - Jun 19 with 528 views | tractorboy1978 |
| “Knowing the league” on 14:46 - Jun 19 by andyblue231 |
Yes for sure.
My point is knowing the league isn’t the telling factor, it’s talent.
I want a talented manager. I don’t care if the most talent manager knows the league or doesn’t. |
It's a mixture of talent, being the right fit somewhere and what you inherit as a squad. You can be a talented manager that works in one environment but not in another.
I think we have to remember that we aren't in the same place off the pitch as clubs like Brentford, Brighton or Bournemouth. Taking over a club like this is a different challenge to where we are now and I would suggest not really comparable. The most important thing this summer is getting our recruitment bang on regardless of who the manager is IMO. That will be the make or break for us. | | | |
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| “Knowing the league” on 15:04 - Jun 19 with 523 views | NedPlimpton |
| “Knowing the league” on 15:00 - Jun 19 by jayessess |
Depends how you want to define 'established' really. Most promoted teams keep the manager they go up with, so very little precedent for having to appoint someone in the Summer beforehand (just Leicester in 2024-25).
Last five years:
2025-26
Le Bris: no previous experience: stayed up.
Farke: yes previous experience: stayed up
Parker: yes previous experience: relegated
2024-25
Cooper: yes, sacked in 16th, van Nistelrooy, no, relegated
Martin: no, sacked in 20th, Juric, no, relegated
McKenna: no, relegated
2023-24
Edwards: no, relegated
Kompany: no, relegated
Heckingbottom: no, sacked in 20th, Wilder: yes, relegated
2022-23:
Parker: yes, sacked in 17th, O'Neil: no, stayed up
Silva, yes, stayed up
Cooper: no, stayed up
2021-22
Farke: yes, sacked in 20th, Smith: yes, relegated.
Frank: no, stayed up
Xisco: no, sacked in 15th, Ranieri: yes, sacked in 17th, Hodgson, yes, relegated.
Can't discern any particular pattern (other than that O'Neil is the only coach on there who kept a promoted team up without having been the one to get them promoted). [Post edited 19 Jun 15:03]
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So you're saying O'Neil has a 100% success rate at keeping teams in the premier league when he wasn't the manager that got them promoted
O'Neil in!!!! |  | | |
| “Knowing the league” on 15:08 - Jun 19 with 512 views | pablo_canooga |
| “Knowing the league” on 15:04 - Jun 19 by tractorboy1978 |
It's a mixture of talent, being the right fit somewhere and what you inherit as a squad. You can be a talented manager that works in one environment but not in another.
I think we have to remember that we aren't in the same place off the pitch as clubs like Brentford, Brighton or Bournemouth. Taking over a club like this is a different challenge to where we are now and I would suggest not really comparable. The most important thing this summer is getting our recruitment bang on regardless of who the manager is IMO. That will be the make or break for us. |
The most important thing this summer is getting our recruitment right, regardless of who the manager is IMO. That will be the make or break for us. THIS.
We could have Pep/Klopp and the Ghost of Sir Bob - if the recruitment stinks, it won't matter a jot. |  | | |
| “Knowing the league” on 15:17 - Jun 19 with 471 views | jayessess |
| “Knowing the league” on 15:04 - Jun 19 by NedPlimpton |
So you're saying O'Neil has a 100% success rate at keeping teams in the premier league when he wasn't the manager that got them promoted
O'Neil in!!!! |
One of only 6 coaches with recent experience of keeping a newly-promoted club in the Premier League full stop. Thomas Frank's taking a break, Regis Le Bris, Daniel Farke, Marco Silva are all presumably happy with their current employment. Leaves Steve Cooper and Gary O'Neil! | |
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| “Knowing the league” on 15:24 - Jun 19 with 418 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
I think i read that Strasboug were thinking of replacing GON, one would wonder if suddenly they relaised they'd get compo and shot so have held off. If he's the man I'll back him from the off but this has shades of Souness to Newcastle for me. Blackburn and esp Blackburn fans couldn't belive their luck when Newcastle took him off their hands.
I'd rather we took a calculated risk on someone promising, not a new manager but someone who has bit of experience and has done well. |  |
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| “Knowing the league” on 15:28 - Jun 19 with 390 views | NedPlimpton |
| “Knowing the league” on 15:24 - Jun 19 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I think i read that Strasboug were thinking of replacing GON, one would wonder if suddenly they relaised they'd get compo and shot so have held off. If he's the man I'll back him from the off but this has shades of Souness to Newcastle for me. Blackburn and esp Blackburn fans couldn't belive their luck when Newcastle took him off their hands.
I'd rather we took a calculated risk on someone promising, not a new manager but someone who has bit of experience and has done well. |
"If" that is the case then it won't be because of his managerial performance where it's widely agreed that he's done a good job. It'll be because he's been critical of BlueCo | | | |
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