| ‘Two Year Kier’ 05:25 - Jun 23 with 15117 views | Benters |
Heard that one this morning  |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:42 - Jun 24 with 977 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:26 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
Yes- but it didnt work did it?
Because Corbyn had no credibility amongst the people you disdainfully call centrists dads (as if moderateness, economic literacy and fatherhood were bad things...) and because he was a brexiteer, and because he was a little bit too reluctant to condemn terrorists.
They arent going to vote Polanski in at a GE with FPTP.
So influence and pushing for what can be done is the way to go, right? Get a foothold, show the benefits, then move forward? |
Well, it might have stood a slightly better chance of working had the Labour right not sought to throw the election by sabotaging from within the party, if antisemitism hadn't been disgracefully weaponised for political ends, if the centrists hadn't spent the previous 5 years trying to stop it and if the zone 2 kitchen islanders hadn't decided that it was unconscionable that they might have to pay a little bit more tax...
Re Brexit, your sensible, forensic man Starmer and the People's Vote did more to ensure a hard Brexit than anyone else. And Corbyn did more campaigning than anyone else to remain. But it's a trading bloc and 7/10 was about right.
Get a foothold - is that what Starmer did? Don't think you realise what awful people the labour right are.
This is a national crisis. Increments aren't going to touch the sides. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:47 - Jun 24 with 962 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:48 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Nobody is trying to shut down that challenge. But a person is entitled to voice an opinion, so long as it’s not hateful, even if they are talking utter bollox. And other posters are free to tell them they are talking utter bollox without saying that admin should silence them.
In this instance I think a Benters is talking bollox. The numbers are down as published. I’m sure he won’t take offence at me telling him he’s talking bollox. Then again, I’m not telling him that he shouldn’t be allowed to share his opinion on a public message board. |
Of course not buh you carry on. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:50 - Jun 24 with 958 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:42 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Well, it might have stood a slightly better chance of working had the Labour right not sought to throw the election by sabotaging from within the party, if antisemitism hadn't been disgracefully weaponised for political ends, if the centrists hadn't spent the previous 5 years trying to stop it and if the zone 2 kitchen islanders hadn't decided that it was unconscionable that they might have to pay a little bit more tax...
Re Brexit, your sensible, forensic man Starmer and the People's Vote did more to ensure a hard Brexit than anyone else. And Corbyn did more campaigning than anyone else to remain. But it's a trading bloc and 7/10 was about right.
Get a foothold - is that what Starmer did? Don't think you realise what awful people the labour right are.
This is a national crisis. Increments aren't going to touch the sides. |
We nearly had you following a logical path, but at the last moment, we got back on the labour right and centrist dads rather than on achieving the goal. |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:52 - Jun 24 with 944 views | peterleeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:42 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Well, it might have stood a slightly better chance of working had the Labour right not sought to throw the election by sabotaging from within the party, if antisemitism hadn't been disgracefully weaponised for political ends, if the centrists hadn't spent the previous 5 years trying to stop it and if the zone 2 kitchen islanders hadn't decided that it was unconscionable that they might have to pay a little bit more tax...
Re Brexit, your sensible, forensic man Starmer and the People's Vote did more to ensure a hard Brexit than anyone else. And Corbyn did more campaigning than anyone else to remain. But it's a trading bloc and 7/10 was about right.
Get a foothold - is that what Starmer did? Don't think you realise what awful people the labour right are.
This is a national crisis. Increments aren't going to touch the sides. |
Mr Dozzel I now understand the Zone 2 Kitchen Island principle. I believe I may fit that particular bill. Albeit my kitchen is rather long and narrow to install an Island! Shame i'd have liked one being a keen cook.
However, having worked my absolute B*****ks of for 44 years (I was a paperboy at 14) and put my self in the position of having delusions of adequacy and perhaps now I can afford a comfortable early retirement, please can you suggest what particular political policies should be fired at me and my ilk in order to bring Great Britain out of its "National Crisis"? |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:57 - Jun 24 with 931 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:52 - Jun 24 by peterleeblue |
Mr Dozzel I now understand the Zone 2 Kitchen Island principle. I believe I may fit that particular bill. Albeit my kitchen is rather long and narrow to install an Island! Shame i'd have liked one being a keen cook.
However, having worked my absolute B*****ks of for 44 years (I was a paperboy at 14) and put my self in the position of having delusions of adequacy and perhaps now I can afford a comfortable early retirement, please can you suggest what particular political policies should be fired at me and my ilk in order to bring Great Britain out of its "National Crisis"? |
No island by sounds of it so you are spared the gulag.
Counter top will still allow you to cook up some fabulous dishes.
I just think probably we're all going to need to pay a bit more tax. And the obsession with inheritance is gonna have to end. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:58 - Jun 24 with 925 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:50 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
We nearly had you following a logical path, but at the last moment, we got back on the labour right and centrist dads rather than on achieving the goal. |
It's simple. Need someone to campaign for those policies and who has principles. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:12 - Jun 24 with 888 views | J2BLUE |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:42 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Well, it might have stood a slightly better chance of working had the Labour right not sought to throw the election by sabotaging from within the party, if antisemitism hadn't been disgracefully weaponised for political ends, if the centrists hadn't spent the previous 5 years trying to stop it and if the zone 2 kitchen islanders hadn't decided that it was unconscionable that they might have to pay a little bit more tax...
Re Brexit, your sensible, forensic man Starmer and the People's Vote did more to ensure a hard Brexit than anyone else. And Corbyn did more campaigning than anyone else to remain. But it's a trading bloc and 7/10 was about right.
Get a foothold - is that what Starmer did? Don't think you realise what awful people the labour right are.
This is a national crisis. Increments aren't going to touch the sides. |
Still defending Corbyn. Blind when it's your man eh? |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:27 - Jun 24 with 838 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:52 - Jun 24 by peterleeblue |
Mr Dozzel I now understand the Zone 2 Kitchen Island principle. I believe I may fit that particular bill. Albeit my kitchen is rather long and narrow to install an Island! Shame i'd have liked one being a keen cook.
However, having worked my absolute B*****ks of for 44 years (I was a paperboy at 14) and put my self in the position of having delusions of adequacy and perhaps now I can afford a comfortable early retirement, please can you suggest what particular political policies should be fired at me and my ilk in order to bring Great Britain out of its "National Crisis"? |
Probably because it sounds like you are okay and lots of people arent? | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:44 - Jun 24 with 803 views | peterleeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:57 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
No island by sounds of it so you are spared the gulag.
Counter top will still allow you to cook up some fabulous dishes.
I just think probably we're all going to need to pay a bit more tax. And the obsession with inheritance is gonna have to end. |
Happy to pay even more tax. I want good public services (most notably our NHS) and I want a thriving economy that provides opportunity, motivation aspiration and reward again.
I think Sunak should risen Income Tax directly after COVID on the back of Furlough. It would have maybe been much easier to swallow at that time.
On Inheritance I make you right again. It is mainly of its time. Especially on a large scale. I imagine it will recert to the aristocratic class (which is how it always was) The booms of the 70,80,90's will wash though maybe 1 or 2 more generations in one shape or another.
But is this not the super rich getting richer and richer? While the rodents on the wheel are left with scraps again rather than something built on hard work and aspiration? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:56 - Jun 24 with 785 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:44 - Jun 24 by peterleeblue |
Happy to pay even more tax. I want good public services (most notably our NHS) and I want a thriving economy that provides opportunity, motivation aspiration and reward again.
I think Sunak should risen Income Tax directly after COVID on the back of Furlough. It would have maybe been much easier to swallow at that time.
On Inheritance I make you right again. It is mainly of its time. Especially on a large scale. I imagine it will recert to the aristocratic class (which is how it always was) The booms of the 70,80,90's will wash though maybe 1 or 2 more generations in one shape or another.
But is this not the super rich getting richer and richer? While the rodents on the wheel are left with scraps again rather than something built on hard work and aspiration? |
That's positive. Part of the problem is that modern life encourages us all to think of ourselves and our immediate situation only. If people realised how close they all are to needing a doctor, needing care, needing social care, needing a hospice etc. And needing good quality care then maybe they'd understand.
Labour should also have raised tax when they won in 24. That they didn't was because they boxed themselves in, drunk on focus groups and permanent campaign mode bullshit. Plus in the end they don't believe in it really.
Yeah, boomers are going to pass on a lot but very unequally. Plus they will need much of it for more advanced care.
We've got to stop housing being an investment and care fund. It's a crazy state of affairs.
Why not raise inheritance tax to pay for a proper national care service?
It's a fair point about it leaving the rich to be get richer. But that's got to be tackled too. Tax them. For too long the 'we'll move' threat has been allowed to dominate. Let them move if they want. They won't because it turns bout Dubai etc isn't as secure as they like to think! [Post edited 24 Jun 21:58]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:00 - Jun 24 with 775 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:56 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
That's positive. Part of the problem is that modern life encourages us all to think of ourselves and our immediate situation only. If people realised how close they all are to needing a doctor, needing care, needing social care, needing a hospice etc. And needing good quality care then maybe they'd understand.
Labour should also have raised tax when they won in 24. That they didn't was because they boxed themselves in, drunk on focus groups and permanent campaign mode bullshit. Plus in the end they don't believe in it really.
Yeah, boomers are going to pass on a lot but very unequally. Plus they will need much of it for more advanced care.
We've got to stop housing being an investment and care fund. It's a crazy state of affairs.
Why not raise inheritance tax to pay for a proper national care service?
It's a fair point about it leaving the rich to be get richer. But that's got to be tackled too. Tax them. For too long the 'we'll move' threat has been allowed to dominate. Let them move if they want. They won't because it turns bout Dubai etc isn't as secure as they like to think! [Post edited 24 Jun 21:58]
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I think this is where you and pragmatism cant find common ground.
I see the logic in increasing tax in 24. The figures were problematic. We already had a big debt problem and record taxes. They would have been slaughtered as "labour tax and spend" in a manifesto and may not have won at all. Thats the fundamental issue. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:08 - Jun 24 with 750 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:00 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
I think this is where you and pragmatism cant find common ground.
I see the logic in increasing tax in 24. The figures were problematic. We already had a big debt problem and record taxes. They would have been slaughtered as "labour tax and spend" in a manifesto and may not have won at all. Thats the fundamental issue. |
They had political capital to do it then. It was another example of how they have no political judgement whatsoever. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:13 - Jun 24 with 740 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:08 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
They had political capital to do it then. It was another example of how they have no political judgement whatsoever. |
They may have done- but it would have been an immediate manifesto breach. Which for me, is a massive no- got to set some integrity standards.
There was a decision to weigh up: campaign on tax rises and potentially miss out on getting in, or accept your hands are going to be tied, get in and at least do some of the stuff required.
There is a real argument for Burnham doing it when he comes in. Nice and early, so it has time to fade away, and it wasnt his manifesto. He can say its all changed and the figures dont work. We will see. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:16 - Jun 24 with 738 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:13 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
They may have done- but it would have been an immediate manifesto breach. Which for me, is a massive no- got to set some integrity standards.
There was a decision to weigh up: campaign on tax rises and potentially miss out on getting in, or accept your hands are going to be tied, get in and at least do some of the stuff required.
There is a real argument for Burnham doing it when he comes in. Nice and early, so it has time to fade away, and it wasnt his manifesto. He can say its all changed and the figures dont work. We will see. |
We shall. I do accept that the right wing press clobber any tax rises but that's all the more reason to argue it hard.
You know where I stand on Burnham. The signs are even less promising than a few days ago. He's going to be in trouble very quickly without something radical.
I think eventually we will get there because everyone under 40 will demand it but we've probably got to go through Reform first as the last hurrah of the 20th century world view. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:23 - Jun 24 with 728 views | peterleeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:56 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
That's positive. Part of the problem is that modern life encourages us all to think of ourselves and our immediate situation only. If people realised how close they all are to needing a doctor, needing care, needing social care, needing a hospice etc. And needing good quality care then maybe they'd understand.
Labour should also have raised tax when they won in 24. That they didn't was because they boxed themselves in, drunk on focus groups and permanent campaign mode bullshit. Plus in the end they don't believe in it really.
Yeah, boomers are going to pass on a lot but very unequally. Plus they will need much of it for more advanced care.
We've got to stop housing being an investment and care fund. It's a crazy state of affairs.
Why not raise inheritance tax to pay for a proper national care service?
It's a fair point about it leaving the rich to be get richer. But that's got to be tackled too. Tax them. For too long the 'we'll move' threat has been allowed to dominate. Let them move if they want. They won't because it turns bout Dubai etc isn't as secure as they like to think! [Post edited 24 Jun 21:58]
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The Care sector interests me.
Generally it is owned by entrepreneurs who invest in buildings and infrastructure and want a return. In reality they get this and then some.
Would a nationalisation of the care industry mean that those generous profits would then go back into the country coffers? That supports making us all all richer with a "wealth" of quality public services funded in part by our aging / departed. Sort of an exit tax that is for the greater good rather than driving profits for corporate run or smaller private care home firms. Probably far too idealistic.
I am not sure how Labour could have raised Tax in 24 without serious backlash. There was hell on when they tried to take out a few hundred quid's worth of Winter Fuel Allowance?
All good reasoned (Healthy) debate - maybe parliament should take a leaf out most of this threads books! We can all think differently on something's and get along and draw and draw out our thoughts peacefully. [Post edited 24 Jun 22:26]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:26 - Jun 24 with 711 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:23 - Jun 24 by peterleeblue |
The Care sector interests me.
Generally it is owned by entrepreneurs who invest in buildings and infrastructure and want a return. In reality they get this and then some.
Would a nationalisation of the care industry mean that those generous profits would then go back into the country coffers? That supports making us all all richer with a "wealth" of quality public services funded in part by our aging / departed. Sort of an exit tax that is for the greater good rather than driving profits for corporate run or smaller private care home firms. Probably far too idealistic.
I am not sure how Labour could have raised Tax in 24 without serious backlash. There was hell on when they tried to take out a few hundred quid's worth of Winter Fuel Allowance?
All good reasoned (Healthy) debate - maybe parliament should take a leaf out most of this threads books! We can all think differently on something's and get along and draw and draw out our thoughts peacefully. [Post edited 24 Jun 22:26]
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Fully behind the exit tax! Better that than it being siphoned off to the Cayman's.
They could have done it quite easily but boxed themselves in. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:33 - Jun 24 with 698 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:16 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
We shall. I do accept that the right wing press clobber any tax rises but that's all the more reason to argue it hard.
You know where I stand on Burnham. The signs are even less promising than a few days ago. He's going to be in trouble very quickly without something radical.
I think eventually we will get there because everyone under 40 will demand it but we've probably got to go through Reform first as the last hurrah of the 20th century world view. |
People tend to move right as they get older.... | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:39 - Jun 24 with 685 views | peterleeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:16 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
We shall. I do accept that the right wing press clobber any tax rises but that's all the more reason to argue it hard.
You know where I stand on Burnham. The signs are even less promising than a few days ago. He's going to be in trouble very quickly without something radical.
I think eventually we will get there because everyone under 40 will demand it but we've probably got to go through Reform first as the last hurrah of the 20th century world view. |
Indeed for about a year now I've become of the view that if its to be Reform lets do it, get it over with, take the undoubted pain and maybe just maybe as you say the Under 40's will bring back some sanity. The Right wing press can then do one. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:40 - Jun 24 with 684 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:33 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
People tend to move right as they get older.... |
They used to. Look up what is happening with millennials though. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:41 - Jun 24 with 681 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:39 - Jun 24 by peterleeblue |
Indeed for about a year now I've become of the view that if its to be Reform lets do it, get it over with, take the undoubted pain and maybe just maybe as you say the Under 40's will bring back some sanity. The Right wing press can then do one. |
Completely agree. We need to break the current political system. Reform will of course be a total disaster but it might finally shock the centre into some understanding of what is going on. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:53 - Jun 24 with 648 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:13 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
That did make me chuckle seeing Burnham is going to appoint James Parnell, the most Blairite of Blairites, as his Chief of Staff. Streeting being touted as Chancellor and Mahmoud continuing as Home Secretary.
There are an awful lot of people on the left about to be bitterly disappointed in the Messiah. |
Literally nobody on the left thinks he's the Messiah. He might just stop Farage getting elected though, it's why you'll vote for him. |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:58 - Jun 24 with 646 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:48 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Nobody is trying to shut down that challenge. But a person is entitled to voice an opinion, so long as it’s not hateful, even if they are talking utter bollox. And other posters are free to tell them they are talking utter bollox without saying that admin should silence them.
In this instance I think a Benters is talking bollox. The numbers are down as published. I’m sure he won’t take offence at me telling him he’s talking bollox. Then again, I’m not telling him that he shouldn’t be allowed to share his opinion on a public message board. |
there's talking utter bollox which is a normal bentrers post as you say, but wilful disinformation is another.
should be called out, and especially by people who he might be more prone to listen to | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 23:09 - Jun 24 with 623 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:16 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Is being arrogant and pompous a prerequisite of joining the centrist club?
How about cancel nurse tuition fee debt, a national care service, set up a UK housebuilding company to compete with the fat cat developers, increase taxes on the super wealthy, build social housing, produce a scheme to tidy provincial towns that have been left behind, end the costly and inefficient outsourcing this country has become addicted to, nationalise water, energy and utilities... |
finally! i agree with most of that, and voted for it in 2019, but millions more voted against it.
so absolutely none of it came to pass.
by compromising and taking people with you, you might stand more chance of acually changing things. centrists are by far the largest part of the electorate, you need to reach out to them, not insult them continually! | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 07:24 - Jun 25 with 530 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:58 - Jun 24 by positivity |
there's talking utter bollox which is a normal bentrers post as you say, but wilful disinformation is another.
should be called out, and especially by people who he might be more prone to listen to |
So basically a few of the legends on here post links etc I have to take that as gospel?
Also I haven’t spread disinformation at all,they are my views,that’s all.
Have a nice day. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:00 - Jun 25 with 468 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:00 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
I think this is where you and pragmatism cant find common ground.
I see the logic in increasing tax in 24. The figures were problematic. We already had a big debt problem and record taxes. They would have been slaughtered as "labour tax and spend" in a manifesto and may not have won at all. Thats the fundamental issue. |
I'm not sure increasing tax rates any further will work for two reasons.
Firstly, the tax burden is at arguably at the point where any further increases on the people who can actually afford to pay it is going to create a disincentive to work which may cause the tax take to fall. As an example, there is a reverse sweet spot where a number of people pay a very high rate of marginal tax as they start losing their personal allowance and this tax can just be avoided by pension contributions.
Secondly, any further tax increases are just gobbled up into the ever increasing demands of the welfare bill, NHS and debt servicing. Nibbling at the edges, without doing anything structural will make no meaningful difference whatsoever.
So in essence, you get all the negatives without any of the corrections that people are actually arguing for. To that end it becomes a bit spiteful as it attacks a certain type of voter. | | | |
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