| Hamas members. 09:11 - Jul 22 with 3948 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Repeatedly assassinated alongside partners, young children and extended family despite a supposed ceasefire.
Regardless of one's views of their religious (and other) beliefs, no one deserves to go like that. Sickening.
Let the moral outrage upvotes rain in. |  |
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| Hamas members. on 10:38 - Jul 22 with 768 views | Ryorry |
Accidental downvote, apols (now corrected). |  |
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| Hamas members. on 10:43 - Jul 22 with 747 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Hamas members. on 10:24 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
Do you think these children of Hamas members weren't going to grow up like that anyway? |
The Geneva Convention and subsequent relevant International Law make a clear distinction between "Combatant" and "Civilian".
All military commanders are obliged to minimise civilian casualties, and any attack on dual-use targets (for example a civilian shop that well-founded intelligence suggests is being used as a weapons cache) has to be proportional: the military objective has to be sufficient to justify the risk to civilians.
In drawing this distinction, the child of a Hamas member is unambiguously a Civilian. No ifs, no buts. That is not up for debate, and based on a foundational principle of International Law regarding warfare and conflict. |  | | |
| Hamas members. on 10:47 - Jul 22 with 728 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 10:33 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
I'm not defending anything, just wondering whether the poster believed it genuinely would make much difference regardless
Also I'm not pointing out that Hamas has little regard for the safety and welfare of it's own children when firing rockets into Israel from the roofs of hospitals in the hope Israel retaliates and kills the patients inside so they can parade their bodies on camera
FWIW I don't understand anyone looking to take a side in this conflict when both perpetrators are morally repugnant |
You’re asking if it ‘would make much difference’ whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions and suffer the consequences of those decisions? And then you’ve got the audacity to refer to anyone else as morally repugnant?! Maybe a look in the mirror is in order… | | | |
| Hamas members. on 10:49 - Jul 22 with 721 views | ChiefXL |
| Hamas members. on 10:43 - Jul 22 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The Geneva Convention and subsequent relevant International Law make a clear distinction between "Combatant" and "Civilian".
All military commanders are obliged to minimise civilian casualties, and any attack on dual-use targets (for example a civilian shop that well-founded intelligence suggests is being used as a weapons cache) has to be proportional: the military objective has to be sufficient to justify the risk to civilians.
In drawing this distinction, the child of a Hamas member is unambiguously a Civilian. No ifs, no buts. That is not up for debate, and based on a foundational principle of International Law regarding warfare and conflict. |
I agree with all of that
However many states have flaunted this rule in the GC including the US under Barak Obama with repeated drone strikes in the middle east during his presidency
We live in a world now where international law is routinely ignored with no accountability
My question was directed to the apparent objection that children witnessing (not being killed as per the post I replied to) the murder of their parents will make them hate the Israeli's and look for revenge, when IMHO they've been raised to hate them anyway, and it seemed an odd take on the situation |  | | |
| Hamas members. on 10:53 - Jul 22 with 713 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 10:30 - Jul 22 by Billywitch |
he/she hasn't said anything to suggest that.
You have avoided the question though |
Because the question absolutely blows my mind. How anyone could ever suggest that it makes no difference whether a CHILD IS MURDERED or they’re able to grow up and make their own decisions and face the consequences of those decisions (good or bad) is beyond sickening. Honestly I’ve got no idea how people have become so morally bankrupt that they would ever try and defend a question like that.
So in short, if you’re asking me to answer whether or not I believe children should be murdered because they might end up doing terrible things then no, no I don’t. | | | |
| Hamas members. on 10:54 - Jul 22 with 708 views | ChiefXL |
| Hamas members. on 10:47 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
You’re asking if it ‘would make much difference’ whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions and suffer the consequences of those decisions? And then you’ve got the audacity to refer to anyone else as morally repugnant?! Maybe a look in the mirror is in order… |
Cool story bro
Many children have been murdered in this conflict, starting with the October attacks orchestrated by Hamas where women and children were raped and murdered. Are you wanting to draw a line where some child victims are justified and others are now?
Where was your outrage and vitriol then?
And look, maybe you were outraged and can produce the evidence to that and all power to you. | | | |
| Hamas members. on 10:57 - Jul 22 with 692 views | Dubtractor |
| Hamas members. on 10:54 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
Cool story bro
Many children have been murdered in this conflict, starting with the October attacks orchestrated by Hamas where women and children were raped and murdered. Are you wanting to draw a line where some child victims are justified and others are now?
Where was your outrage and vitriol then?
And look, maybe you were outraged and can produce the evidence to that and all power to you. |
Thus is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on here, from a poster I expect better from.
What an unbelievably depressing thread this is. |  |
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| Hamas members. on 10:59 - Jul 22 with 676 views | Ryorry |
| Hamas members. on 10:47 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
You’re asking if it ‘would make much difference’ whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions and suffer the consequences of those decisions? And then you’ve got the audacity to refer to anyone else as morally repugnant?! Maybe a look in the mirror is in order… |
This is all getting very messy.
“You’re asking if it ‘would make much difference’ whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions and suffer the consequences of those decisions? ”
You’re right on that of course. Yet it’s still perfectly reasonable to also hold the view that both sides in the conflict are morally repugnant; and to abhor the policy of using children, hospital patients and other civilians tactically, as human shields. | |
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| Hamas members. on 11:01 - Jul 22 with 664 views | ChiefXL |
| Hamas members. on 10:57 - Jul 22 by Dubtractor |
Thus is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on here, from a poster I expect better from.
What an unbelievably depressing thread this is. |
Probably not my best, granted
I just find it depressing people constantly take sides in this particular and jumping on the crimes of one whilst ignoring the crimes of the other and how it seems to be usually motivated by their own political persuasions
You shouldn't kill children because you shouldn't kill children, not because they might grow up to seek revenge | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:01 - Jul 22 with 660 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 10:54 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
Cool story bro
Many children have been murdered in this conflict, starting with the October attacks orchestrated by Hamas where women and children were raped and murdered. Are you wanting to draw a line where some child victims are justified and others are now?
Where was your outrage and vitriol then?
And look, maybe you were outraged and can produce the evidence to that and all power to you. |
The fact that you think that this conflict started with the October attacks is incredibly telling.
Any child murdered in any conflict is an absolute travesty and, to me, it’s absolutely mental for anyone to suggest that one child’s life is worth more than another’s. I don’t have to prove my outrage to you about any murder but I can assure you you will find zero evidence in any aspect of my life of me not being outraged by the murder of any child.
The fact that you are willing to devalue a child’s life to the extent that you’ve got no issue questioning whether them being killed makes any difference because they might grow up to do something terrible is a crushing indictment of your morality. The fact that people with this level of inhumanity inhabit this world both blows my mind and disgusts me in equal measure | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:02 - Jul 22 with 653 views | Trequartista |
"Regardless of one's views of their religious (and other) beliefs, no one deserves to go like that." You appear to be equating Ann Widdecombe with Hamas?
Perhaps, like the radical leftists you think she was a fascist and/or a nazi? It's that type of hyperbole that would leave her vulnerable to attack as everyone wants to punch a nazi right? |  |
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| Hamas members. on 11:03 - Jul 22 with 638 views | ChiefXL |
| Hamas members. on 11:01 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
The fact that you think that this conflict started with the October attacks is incredibly telling.
Any child murdered in any conflict is an absolute travesty and, to me, it’s absolutely mental for anyone to suggest that one child’s life is worth more than another’s. I don’t have to prove my outrage to you about any murder but I can assure you you will find zero evidence in any aspect of my life of me not being outraged by the murder of any child.
The fact that you are willing to devalue a child’s life to the extent that you’ve got no issue questioning whether them being killed makes any difference because they might grow up to do something terrible is a crushing indictment of your morality. The fact that people with this level of inhumanity inhabit this world both blows my mind and disgusts me in equal measure |
At this point you're just reading what you want to read aren't you? | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:03 - Jul 22 with 637 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 11:01 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
Probably not my best, granted
I just find it depressing people constantly take sides in this particular and jumping on the crimes of one whilst ignoring the crimes of the other and how it seems to be usually motivated by their own political persuasions
You shouldn't kill children because you shouldn't kill children, not because they might grow up to seek revenge |
“Take sides”?! Like suggesting it doesn’t matter if Palestinian children are murdered because they might grow up to be bad people? That kind of taking sides?? | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:06 - Jul 22 with 602 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 10:59 - Jul 22 by Ryorry |
This is all getting very messy.
“You’re asking if it ‘would make much difference’ whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions and suffer the consequences of those decisions? ”
You’re right on that of course. Yet it’s still perfectly reasonable to also hold the view that both sides in the conflict are morally repugnant; and to abhor the policy of using children, hospital patients and other civilians tactically, as human shields. |
I am right on that, correct. The post didn’t say anything about both sides of the conflict, it asked whether it made any difference whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions.
That, to me, is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:11 - Jul 22 with 576 views | ChiefXL |
| Hamas members. on 11:06 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
I am right on that, correct. The post didn’t say anything about both sides of the conflict, it asked whether it made any difference whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions.
That, to me, is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read |
You need to read more | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:12 - Jul 22 with 568 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 11:03 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
At this point you're just reading what you want to read aren't you? |
Keep doubling down “bro”.
I get that your position is indefensible, but you’re the one who asked whether it makes any difference whether a child is killed or witnessing their family being killed or gets to grow up and make their own decisions.
I’m assuming you are fine with Netanyahu being killed in front of his children and grandchildren because they might grow up to do terrible things? | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:13 - Jul 22 with 557 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 11:11 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
You need to read more |
The fact that you want to defend your position by effectively saying ‘people have said more horrendous things than me’ is massively telling… | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:16 - Jul 22 with 529 views | Ryorry |
| Hamas members. on 11:06 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
I am right on that, correct. The post didn’t say anything about both sides of the conflict, it asked whether it made any difference whether a child was murdered or allowed to grow up and make their own decisions.
That, to me, is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read |
The post I was referring to was the 10.33 one of ChiefXL’s, which did include all the points I commented on in mine.
With so many posts on the thread, many by the same posters though, I can see how confusion’s arisen - part of the messiness I was referring to. | |
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| Hamas members. on 11:17 - Jul 22 with 517 views | ChiefXL |
| Hamas members. on 11:12 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
Keep doubling down “bro”.
I get that your position is indefensible, but you’re the one who asked whether it makes any difference whether a child is killed or witnessing their family being killed or gets to grow up and make their own decisions.
I’m assuming you are fine with Netanyahu being killed in front of his children and grandchildren because they might grow up to do terrible things? |
Again, you are misconstruing my point to suit your own narrative
As I said earlier, being against killing children because they might grow up seeking revenge was the odd take. | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:22 - Jul 22 with 478 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 11:17 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
Again, you are misconstruing my point to suit your own narrative
As I said earlier, being against killing children because they might grow up seeking revenge was the odd take. |
I’m not misconstruing anything, it’s there in black and white for everyone to see. You’re someone who has asked the question as to whether there’s a difference between a child being murdered or witnessing the murder of a family member and them being able to grow up and make their own decisions. You thought that, typed that and posted it. However you want to try and defend that decision is on you, but, to me, it’s a disgustingly immoral question to ask | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:27 - Jul 22 with 464 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 11:16 - Jul 22 by Ryorry |
The post I was referring to was the 10.33 one of ChiefXL’s, which did include all the points I commented on in mine.
With so many posts on the thread, many by the same posters though, I can see how confusion’s arisen - part of the messiness I was referring to. |
To me, it’s weird to cherry pick a response where the poster is back tracking and trying to defend their original question, rather than just being disgusted by the question itself. But maybe that’s just me | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:31 - Jul 22 with 444 views | Ryorry |
| Hamas members. on 11:27 - Jul 22 by wrightsrightglove |
To me, it’s weird to cherry pick a response where the poster is back tracking and trying to defend their original question, rather than just being disgusted by the question itself. But maybe that’s just me |
Eh? What “cherry-picking”? I responded to all 3 parts of his post, two of which you had taken issue with; and no others. [Post edited 22 Jul 11:34]
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| Hamas members. on 11:33 - Jul 22 with 434 views | buoyant |
| Hamas members. on 10:24 - Jul 22 by ChiefXL |
Do you think these children of Hamas members weren't going to grow up like that anyway? |
No, they are more likely to as a result though.
I worked with individuals whos relatives were active members of Hamas, despite these connections they wanted peace above anything else in their lives.
Despite what some people believe, in my experience a large proportion of people in Israelis and Palestinian want to live in peace and work together in harmony.
It's the far right factions within the Israeli government and organised civilian movements as much as the likes of Hamas that drive hatred and the resulting extemist indoctrination.
Edit - typos as a result of being incapable of multitasking [Post edited 22 Jul 11:42]
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| Hamas members. on 11:37 - Jul 22 with 421 views | wrightsrightglove |
| Hamas members. on 11:31 - Jul 22 by Ryorry |
Eh? What “cherry-picking”? I responded to all 3 parts of his post, two of which you had taken issue with; and no others. [Post edited 22 Jul 11:34]
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You responded to my post and effectively said ‘what you’re saying is correct but…’ and then used examples from one of the follow up posts from the poster where they’ve tried to defend their original question and are clearly backtracking. And that’s fine, but, to me, I don’t know how anyone can even begin to defend the position of the poster | | | |
| Hamas members. on 11:38 - Jul 22 with 416 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Hamas members. on 10:57 - Jul 22 by Dubtractor |
Thus is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read on here, from a poster I expect better from.
What an unbelievably depressing thread this is. |
Wild isn’t it?
For the avoidance of any doubt, I ‘think’ (a much over-used word on this thread lol) that it’s not good to kill kids and other civilians and it’s not going to help peace efforts to routinely break the ceasefire. I’m also capable of simultaneously acknowledging that, as a terrorist organisation, Hamas are bad guys. I’m not sure what else is needed. |  |
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