| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta 09:58 - Jul 31 with 12147 views | ElderGrizzly |
Astonishing, when the initial media report was 'hundreds'
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
And with Italy calling for the suspension Schengen Area with Spain too |  | | |  |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 with 4234 views | J2BLUE |
Not surprised about Italy at all. It's fine for Spain to say what they want to do but they are effectively giving people citizenship of Europe.
If we go back any time soon in any meaningful way I doubt we sign up to free movement. |  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 with 4245 views | nrb1985 |
Without going all Faragey, I did actually find the videos quite disturbing.
They are literally all men of a certain age - no women or kids to be seen. Clearly no respect at all for due process, rule of law nor can i confidently say all of them are fleeing persecution of some kind.
Question is, wtf do you do about it without harming the prospects for people legitimately seeking asylum? This is only going to get worse with climate change and perpetual wars too. [Post edited 31 Jul 10:43]
|  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:33 - Jul 31 with 4110 views | ElderGrizzly |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Not surprised about Italy at all. It's fine for Spain to say what they want to do but they are effectively giving people citizenship of Europe.
If we go back any time soon in any meaningful way I doubt we sign up to free movement. |
Reform are misleading people by saying these people are in Mainland Spain too and heading to the UK today.
They still need to get from what is essentially Morocco to Spain.
It's a horrible situation for the residents of Cueta but also for those who were genuinely fleeing persecution who will be assumed to be just another economic migrant. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:33 - Jul 31 with 4102 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Not surprised about Italy at all. It's fine for Spain to say what they want to do but they are effectively giving people citizenship of Europe.
If we go back any time soon in any meaningful way I doubt we sign up to free movement. |
Why wouldn't we sign up for freedom of movement? That's one of the major points of the EU and something we absolutely should be part of if we rejoin.
Not sure we are going to be able to pick and choose which bits of the EU we want to conform to.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:36 - Jul 31 with 4088 views | Guthrum |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:33 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Why wouldn't we sign up for freedom of movement? That's one of the major points of the EU and something we absolutely should be part of if we rejoin.
Not sure we are going to be able to pick and choose which bits of the EU we want to conform to.
SB |
We most decidedly are not going to be able to pick and choose. Possibly including the Euro currency itself. Which is why we're unlikely to rejoin fully in the forseeable future. |  |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:36 - Jul 31 with 4082 views | J2BLUE |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:33 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Why wouldn't we sign up for freedom of movement? That's one of the major points of the EU and something we absolutely should be part of if we rejoin.
Not sure we are going to be able to pick and choose which bits of the EU we want to conform to.
SB |
Because immigration is one of the biggest issues for the country and if an EU country like Germany under Merkel or Spain right now decide to throw the doors open they are effectively granting European membership.
I am not sure the country will accept it. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:39 - Jul 31 with 4051 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:36 - Jul 31 by Guthrum |
We most decidedly are not going to be able to pick and choose. Possibly including the Euro currency itself. Which is why we're unlikely to rejoin fully in the forseeable future. |
I know, that's why I said it.
I'd be quite happy taking the EUR as I think many would. It works fine for economies which are approximate to ours but I do get it'll upset quite a few.
The UK can't go it alone in a world dominated by the US and China as recent history has clearly shown us.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:40 - Jul 31 with 4056 views | squiz |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 by nrb1985 |
Without going all Faragey, I did actually find the videos quite disturbing.
They are literally all men of a certain age - no women or kids to be seen. Clearly no respect at all for due process, rule of law nor can i confidently say all of them are fleeing persecution of some kind.
Question is, wtf do you do about it without harming the prospects for people legitimately seeking asylum? This is only going to get worse with climate change and perpetual wars too. [Post edited 31 Jul 10:43]
|
Those videos are mana from heaven for Farage. I know twitter isn't real life but it's full of Americans stating that europe has fallen and comparing the images to zombie films.
I didn't even know Spain had a conclave in Morocco until yesterday. I haven't seen reported (and may have missed) how the people getting into Cueta are getting to Spain afterwards? Surely they aren't just free to get on a boat to Spain after breaking in? |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:41 - Jul 31 with 4016 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:36 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Because immigration is one of the biggest issues for the country and if an EU country like Germany under Merkel or Spain right now decide to throw the doors open they are effectively granting European membership.
I am not sure the country will accept it. |
Then as a country we will be in a tougher position, we can't compete with China and we can't trust the US at the moment.
We need to be part of that union and if people can't see that then we are screwed. Immigration is an issue because of the constant lies posted around it on social media and spoken about it by certain politicians.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:43 - Jul 31 with 4000 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:40 - Jul 31 by squiz |
Those videos are mana from heaven for Farage. I know twitter isn't real life but it's full of Americans stating that europe has fallen and comparing the images to zombie films.
I didn't even know Spain had a conclave in Morocco until yesterday. I haven't seen reported (and may have missed) how the people getting into Cueta are getting to Spain afterwards? Surely they aren't just free to get on a boat to Spain after breaking in? |
They have two enclaves in Morocco (Ceuta and Melilla), which makes their position on Gibraltar quite interesting.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:49 - Jul 31 with 3935 views | J2BLUE |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:41 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Then as a country we will be in a tougher position, we can't compete with China and we can't trust the US at the moment.
We need to be part of that union and if people can't see that then we are screwed. Immigration is an issue because of the constant lies posted around it on social media and spoken about it by certain politicians.
SB |
Are there any legitimate concerns about immigration or is it all idiotic racists who are too stupid to know what's good for them? | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:49 - Jul 31 with 3935 views | Guthrum |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:39 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
I know, that's why I said it.
I'd be quite happy taking the EUR as I think many would. It works fine for economies which are approximate to ours but I do get it'll upset quite a few.
The UK can't go it alone in a world dominated by the US and China as recent history has clearly shown us.
SB |
I was agreeing with/reinforcing your point.
The issue with the Euro is it ties stronger economies, such as ours and Germany's, to weaker ones and can be drawn into supporting them to prevent collapse (as with the Greek crisis of the mid 2010s). Also prevents currency maneuvering to deal with difficulties of our own.
There is a lot of room for further integration and working together between the UK and the EU without formally rejoining. We might be able to achieve something close to what we used to have, by the back door. | |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:50 - Jul 31 with 3919 views | cressi |
Large boats not small boats required. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:51 - Jul 31 with 3916 views | nrb1985 |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:39 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
I know, that's why I said it.
I'd be quite happy taking the EUR as I think many would. It works fine for economies which are approximate to ours but I do get it'll upset quite a few.
The UK can't go it alone in a world dominated by the US and China as recent history has clearly shown us.
SB |
We run a current account defecit.
Having an artifically weak currency like the EUR would likely be a hindrance not a help.
Germany have an almighty trade surplus so it works well for them.
Closer political union and trade integration makes sense, I'm not sure the EUR does. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:53 - Jul 31 with 3875 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:49 - Jul 31 by Guthrum |
I was agreeing with/reinforcing your point.
The issue with the Euro is it ties stronger economies, such as ours and Germany's, to weaker ones and can be drawn into supporting them to prevent collapse (as with the Greek crisis of the mid 2010s). Also prevents currency maneuvering to deal with difficulties of our own.
There is a lot of room for further integration and working together between the UK and the EU without formally rejoining. We might be able to achieve something close to what we used to have, by the back door. |
Possibly but I am happy with re-joining on the terms that other countries are required to accept.
Germany and France, similar sized economies (in general) do just fine without having the ability to do individual currency manoeuvring. Being able to control our own currency and issue debt hasn't really helped us over these countries in any meaningful way over the last decade.
Why do we always have to do things through the back door? Other countries don't generally do that, we need to grow up as a population and have proper discussions rather than "we can't lose the pound, rule Britannia!".
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:55 - Jul 31 with 3852 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:49 - Jul 31 by Guthrum |
I was agreeing with/reinforcing your point.
The issue with the Euro is it ties stronger economies, such as ours and Germany's, to weaker ones and can be drawn into supporting them to prevent collapse (as with the Greek crisis of the mid 2010s). Also prevents currency maneuvering to deal with difficulties of our own.
There is a lot of room for further integration and working together between the UK and the EU without formally rejoining. We might be able to achieve something close to what we used to have, by the back door. |
I'd be interested to know what a referendum on re-joining on the same terms in which we left would look like right now. On the one hand Brexit has predictably been damaging to the economy and living standards of the good folk of Britain, but immigration is perhaps an even bigger issue in the public conscience than it was then.
Not that I want to see a vote on it personally, 10 years on I'm not sure we need the distraction and cost from day to day politics right now. Personally I'd just like to see some sense of stability, and a PM trusted to get on with a job and giving a decent length of time to make some difference, I don't even care who at this point. |  | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:58 - Jul 31 with 3827 views | Guthrum |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:49 - Jul 31 by J2BLUE |
Are there any legitimate concerns about immigration or is it all idiotic racists who are too stupid to know what's good for them? |
There are legitimate issues around immigration and to what extent it should be limited, or to what social and economic benefits new arrivals should be entitled. Particularly as the vast majority of immigration is legal (e.g. international students).
However, it has been whipped up into a storm by those more concerned with votes than truth, particularly by conflating legal with illegal immigration and attributing criminality to those who have come.
The proper debate is not being had, so a lot of what is said and written on the subject can be dismissed as hyperbole, if not outright manipulation. | |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:01 - Jul 31 with 3791 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:51 - Jul 31 by nrb1985 |
We run a current account defecit.
Having an artifically weak currency like the EUR would likely be a hindrance not a help.
Germany have an almighty trade surplus so it works well for them.
Closer political union and trade integration makes sense, I'm not sure the EUR does. |
It really depends, France don't run a massive trade surplus. In the end why should the EU allow us to pick and choose which elements of the union we want to adhere to? We are the ones who decided to leave.
Just seems like a huge sense of entitlement that many think we can pick and choose what bits of the EU we want and the EU should just agree to it.
So my views on the EUR aren't entirely economic, more along the lines that we need to stop trying to deliberately be outsiders and difficult with everything we do.
However if the EU are going to allow us to pick and choose then that's obviously great.
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 11:07]
| |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:01 - Jul 31 with 3787 views | J2BLUE |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:58 - Jul 31 by Guthrum |
There are legitimate issues around immigration and to what extent it should be limited, or to what social and economic benefits new arrivals should be entitled. Particularly as the vast majority of immigration is legal (e.g. international students).
However, it has been whipped up into a storm by those more concerned with votes than truth, particularly by conflating legal with illegal immigration and attributing criminality to those who have come.
The proper debate is not being had, so a lot of what is said and written on the subject can be dismissed as hyperbole, if not outright manipulation. |
I don't disagree. | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:04 - Jul 31 with 3770 views | Guthrum |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:17 - Jul 31 by nrb1985 |
Without going all Faragey, I did actually find the videos quite disturbing.
They are literally all men of a certain age - no women or kids to be seen. Clearly no respect at all for due process, rule of law nor can i confidently say all of them are fleeing persecution of some kind.
Question is, wtf do you do about it without harming the prospects for people legitimately seeking asylum? This is only going to get worse with climate change and perpetual wars too. [Post edited 31 Jul 10:43]
|
The young men go first. Once established, their families can join them.
Particularly on routes like this, which require a high degree of physical danger. | |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:05 - Jul 31 with 3751 views | lowhouseblue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:58 - Jul 31 by Guthrum |
There are legitimate issues around immigration and to what extent it should be limited, or to what social and economic benefits new arrivals should be entitled. Particularly as the vast majority of immigration is legal (e.g. international students).
However, it has been whipped up into a storm by those more concerned with votes than truth, particularly by conflating legal with illegal immigration and attributing criminality to those who have come.
The proper debate is not being had, so a lot of what is said and written on the subject can be dismissed as hyperbole, if not outright manipulation. |
"However, it has been whipped up into a storm by those more concerned with votes than truth"
i don't for a second doubt that's true.
but you also need to put it in the context of the boris wave. an utterly unprecedented level of net immigration at a time when all political parties had promised to reduce it. after a referendum in which reducing immigration was a prime determinant of how people voted. it was a policy with no democratic mandate - in fact it ran directly against all measures of public opinion.
so you can't see the issue as politicised without recognising that context. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 with 3757 views | Billywitch |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:33 - Jul 31 by ElderGrizzly |
Reform are misleading people by saying these people are in Mainland Spain too and heading to the UK today.
They still need to get from what is essentially Morocco to Spain.
It's a horrible situation for the residents of Cueta but also for those who were genuinely fleeing persecution who will be assumed to be just another economic migrant. |
Those people who live in and love their town of Cueta are the ones where my thoughts sit. Invaded by thousands of criminals smashing their home town to pieces.
Just awful scenes
Hopefully the Police/military have/are mobilising and take action | | | |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 with 3747 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 10:55 - Jul 31 by _CliveBaker_ |
I'd be interested to know what a referendum on re-joining on the same terms in which we left would look like right now. On the one hand Brexit has predictably been damaging to the economy and living standards of the good folk of Britain, but immigration is perhaps an even bigger issue in the public conscience than it was then.
Not that I want to see a vote on it personally, 10 years on I'm not sure we need the distraction and cost from day to day politics right now. Personally I'd just like to see some sense of stability, and a PM trusted to get on with a job and giving a decent length of time to make some difference, I don't even care who at this point. |
Why would the EU allow us back with GBP, a rebate and a veto?
Other countries don't get those luxuries, that is why it was such a monumental folly to leave.
Immigration skyrocketed after leaving the EU.
June polling data showed 58% support for re-joining the EU with 11% undecided. That seems to be increasing as demographics change. For instance, 62% of Gen Z and young Brits want a vote to rejoin after the next GE. 70% of voters too young to have voted in the referendum would vote to rejoin the EU.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:09 - Jul 31 with 3724 views | bartyg |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 by Billywitch |
Those people who live in and love their town of Cueta are the ones where my thoughts sit. Invaded by thousands of criminals smashing their home town to pieces.
Just awful scenes
Hopefully the Police/military have/are mobilising and take action |
Can you link to where you've seen any of that please |  |
| |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:12 - Jul 31 with 3696 views | StokieBlue |
| 49,000 migrants crossing in one day to Cueta on 11:06 - Jul 31 by Billywitch |
Those people who live in and love their town of Cueta are the ones where my thoughts sit. Invaded by thousands of criminals smashing their home town to pieces.
Just awful scenes
Hopefully the Police/military have/are mobilising and take action |
What action do you want the military to take?
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
